Hello I need help with edits again, please?

Probotboyxxx · Dec 25, 2019

Hello, I wound also like to make a request of having Wally West's attack potency for his Post Crisis page to be changed to multiversal due to him blitzing the Antimontior's armor and him wrecking havoc across the multiverse along side Barry Allen during Flash War. I also suggest that he should get Martial Arts added to his Powers and Abilities section, as well. Due to him being trained by the Teen Titans, the Wizened Sage, and his experiences fighting with and without powers, please?

DarkDragonMedeus · Dec 25, 2019

That doesn't really seem like an Attack Potency feat, and blitzing Antimonitor's armor seems like an outlier. Martial Arts seems like a fine addition, but traveling through time and causing numerous time paradoxes isn't an Attack Potency feat.

Probotboyxxx · Dec 25, 2019

But it's not an outlier, DC characters tend to hold back their true potential when it's most needed. Otherwise how else, was havoc wrecked across the multiverse during Flash War? Also, thank you for including the Martial Arts proportion.

DarkDragonMedeus · Dec 25, 2019

Well, his strongest attack was calculated at 4-B which is the strongest tier any of the Post-Crisis Justice League heroes can perform. And yes DC is full of inconsistencies, and a lot of characters like Anti-Monitor often toy with the main cast. But we can't scale cosmic gods to the main super heroes.

Probotboyxxx · Dec 25, 2019

Well Superman has over 50 universal feats yet he's considered only solar system level, which less consistent than his universal feats. That doesn't seem right. Superman has the feats, yet he's get downgraded to be a weakling?

The_Impress · Dec 25, 2019

Because literally everyone in Comics can be Hyperversal if we do scaling like that.

Amping him to Universal is ridiculous IMHO, because by the exact same logic I can get him 8-C. 4-B is an acceptable median showed by Superman level characters

Probotboyxxx · Dec 25, 2019

Well what about Archie Sonic?

Probotboyxxx · Dec 25, 2019

Shouldn't Archie Sonic be lower than universal at base?

The_Impress · Dec 25, 2019

Idk about that, you can ask the people who manage stats for that verse.

All I know is the 4-B is an acceptable median for DC

Probotboyxxx · Dec 25, 2019

I don't know those people, plus the research behind Archie Sonic is based on biased scans that are taken out of context and hyped up to ridiculous levels.

Probotboyxxx · Dec 25, 2019

The_Impress · Dec 25, 2019

Okay, I'll ask you to stay focused here, first off. I also have other matters to attend to, so unfortunately I can't carry an overly long discussion with you over a verse I neither know or care about like Archie Sonic.

You can go and make a new CRT or address the issue in the QnA board for the Sonic stuff.

In regards to the upgrade you've proposed of DC, no, it is ridiculous and extremely wankish for Superman and Flash to be a consistent Universal across all their appearances, and they hold more satisfyingly as Solar System level.

DarkDragonMedeus · Dec 25, 2019

Superman has never used his own power to perform a Universal feat, it's about always required some degree of outside help such as empowerment from Mr Mxy and other characters. And destroying the Phantom Zone was a chain reacion. And some alleged universal feats are not even close to universal such as the Book of Infinite pages or Spectre lifting feat. And other Universal beings held back against Superman. In fact, there was an official word from DC that Superman was no where near universal.

Probotboyxxx · Dec 30, 2019

Zark2099 said:
Okay, I'll ask you to stay focused here, first off. I also have other matters to attend to, so unfortunately I can't carry an overly long discussion with you over a verse I neither know or care about like Archie Sonic.
You can go and make a new CRT or address the issue in the QnA board for the Sonic stuff.

In regards to the upgrade you've proposed of DC, no, it is ridiculous and extremely wankish for Superman and Flash to be a consistent Universal across all their appearances, and they hold more satisfyingly as Solar System level.

Even though they are not actually Solar System level and hold back their true power?

Probotboyxxx · Dec 30, 2019

DarkDragonMedeus said:
Superman has never used his own power to perform a Universal feat, it's about always required some degree of outside help such as empowerment from Mr Mxy and other characters. And destroying the Phantom Zone was a chain reacion. And some alleged universal feats are not even close to universal such as the Book of Infinite pages or Spectre lifting feat. And other Universal beings held back against Superman. In fact, there was an official word from DC that Superman was no where near universal.

No Superman hasn't always needed outside help to perform universal feats, what about the time he fought Nebula Man, survived Astek's 4D energy blast, or Dominus? Well what about Superman holding back his true strength? Where does it say that Superman's no where near universal? I don't understand why people can't just take Superman's word of what he can do and when he holds back his true potential. As for the Book of Infinite pages, the book was originally moved from a desk to the ground, only for Superman and Shazam to blow back from reading the book too much. Plus Superman was going to go back and get the book. Also, please don't tell me you actually believe Ultraman about the book being endless. That guy is a moron and turned out to be wrong in the end.

DarkDragonMedeus · Dec 30, 2019

Actually, the Solar System level feat was literally calculated form the Flash's very strongest attack, being the Infinite Mass Punch. Superman also has many other 4-B feats and feats less than 4-B in which Superman has many instances of struggling with.

Probotboyxxx · Dec 30, 2019

Also who do I talk to have Archie Sonic's power level changed? Cause that guy is nowhere universal level at base.

Probotboyxxx · Dec 30, 2019

But the Flash has gotten stronger since then, plus he wasn't looking to kill Zoom. Also, if that was Flash's strongest move, why wasn't he tired after delivering that punch? Such as?

DarkDragonMedeus · Dec 30, 2019

Superman has also used the same attack and he consistently faints upon using it. Flash is technically a pseudo glass cannon, but has the ability to break the laws of physics and sometimes bypasses Newton's third law. His durability can fluctuate to being Batman's level to being almost as much as Superman's. Zoom is a character stronger than Superman, but he's also only 4-B.

Probotboyxxx · Dec 30, 2019

When did Superman faint when using the Infinite Mass Punch? That's because Flash activate his powers however he wants, remember how Wally's powers went into flux during his run as the Flash. Until he learned that his speed was blocked off because of psychological blocks. After he got over his blocks, he acquired his true potential when it came to his speed. The reason why the Flash can come off as durable as either Superman or Batman level of durability, is because he chooses to be at those levels. It justs takes a lot of concentration to hold back. Barry and Wally said it themselves, they have to do so much just to be a part of their world. The same thing goes for Superman for his strength, too.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yQu77Oo97tg/VnvZ_bCdQpI/AAAAAAAAItk/REROSdw-Ju0/s1600-Ic42/RCO001.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-G4PAiZadMIU/VnvZ_XpBBuI/AAAAAAAAItk/JPa22kV2v_c/s1600-Ic42/RCO002.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Gm2L7D1yU...4CoqiP9SIdcSrZz_YDbCCvOqlOLoJ6RvmI92ppj=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/H27KA6_EH...eJmgwx3tzT-t-8ZXNzNggvU982jjAfZNy4VpTta=s1600

Greenshifter · Jan 1, 2020

If I remember correctly the flashes broke the speed force barrier which was giving problems with the multiverse (not sure if it was about to be destroyed), if it was then I guess 2-A via breaking the speed force barrier (and hence doesn't scale to regular AP) should work although we generally don't give tiers for this kind of stuff.

DarkDragonMedeus · Jan 1, 2020

That's a chain reaction; for similar reasons for why Super Buu isn't 2-C. It's an Immeasurable speed feat for peak Flash, as well as a hax feat, but not a regular AP feat.

Greenshifter · Jan 1, 2020

I know but in theory he could recreate the chain reaction feat I guess, just wouldn't scale to regular AP. So 4-B, 2-A via breaking the speed force barrier. Also isn't a hax feat something like GER's return to zero and because it doesn't destroy anything it's not listed on his page at High 3-A anymore, breaking the speed force barrier does destroy stuff IIRC. Also Buuhan is creating the portals that destroys multiple universes right, wouldn't this also be listed like King Boo as 2-C via portals unless it's unquantifiable cause it's done over time or something?

Greenshifter · Jan 3, 2020

Greenshifter · Jan 3, 2020

I'll detail the scans later.

Greenshifter · Jan 5, 2020

So, Zoom tells Wally that the temporal energies trapped inside his body will allow him to break the Speed Force just enough to save his kids. Wally then attempts to do so with a bit of Barry's help, but instead of breaking into the Speed Force, he instead breaks the Force Barrier a.k.a. the Source Wall. After Zoom reveals his evil plans, Barry and Wally follow him into Hypertime where Barry deducts that it must be dying as a side effect of the break in the Source Wall. Wally claims he goes at top-speed and that he can barely keep up with Zoom but after getting an emotional boost he catches up to Zoom, implying Wally could have done the break in the Source Wall by himself since he is fast enough to do so.

This would put Wally at 4-B, 2-A (or whatever tier Hypertime is/becomes) via breaking the Source Wall which results in Hypertime dying.

There is also a supporting feat where the Flashes play havoc with multiverse which I'll post under this (which is what the OP is referring to I think).

Greenshifter · Jan 5, 2020

Cyborg states that the energies the Flashes are generating is playing havoc with the very fabric of the multiverse.

Firestorm808 · Jan 5, 2020

@Probotboyxxx

You said that Superman has over 50 universal feats. Can you list them out in another thread, so we may evaluate them?

@Greenshifter

Do you have the specific issue of the Flash War for that?

Firestorm808 · Jan 5, 2020

The Force Barrier is not the Source Wall. The Force Barrier is a barrier that prevents anyone from harnessing power from other cosmic energies like the Speed, Sage, and Strength Forces.

The Speed Force Wall is layers away from the Source Wall.

https://www.dccomics.com/sites/default/files/Multiversity_Map_2400_53ee6b4c22d9a9.11031355.jpg

DarkDragonMedeus · Jan 6, 2020

"Superman has over 50 Universal feats" that sounds like something Tonathan was known for saying.

Greenshifter · Jan 6, 2020

@Firestorm Issues 48-50 (so #2 to #4)

Barry attributes the dying of Hypertime to the break in the Source Wall, the only break that happened during those issues was the one that Wally caused.

Greenshifter · Jan 7, 2020

And apparently the break in the Source Wall happened during the invasion of the Dark Multiverse and doesn't have anything to do with Wally so RIP all my scans.

The Cyborg statement still stands but it's probably unquantifiable isn't it?

Firestorm808 · Jan 7, 2020

Again, they didn't break the Source Wall.

Greenshifter · Jan 7, 2020

The speedsters didn't, apparently someone or something did during the invasion of the Dark Multiverse, which is what Barry is referencing but it's got nothing to do with Wally.

Hello I need help with edits again, please?

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