Hearts vs Shadow

[Fezzih_007]

When I read the Dark Ki page, it didnt seem passive. It just seems like it allows the user to segment or change the past or something which alters history.

Well, Dark Sheron have Dark Ki, and when he was summoned, he start distorting time by his Sheer prencence, so when he appears, he was affecting time, so is passive.
Cumber also have this.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Well, Dark Sheron have Dark Ki, and when he was summoned, he start distorting time by his Sheer prencence, so when he appears, he was affecting time, so is passive.
Cumber also have this.

It seems that is passive, so yeah, he was around cumber and was not affected.

That's just one application of Dark Ki. Shenron wasn't even using the causality manipulation that Dark Ki is said to have. Just distorted time. Which isn't at all causality manip.

 

[Omegabronic]

No, it wouldn't really affect him. If he's removed from causality, no type of hax regardless of if it works on those of a different causality system will work on them. If killing their past self has no affect on them since they are removed from causality (or are resistant to it), then Shadow attacking him throughout time won't work. The only way it will is if it's shown to bypass resistances in canon.

Shadow's works on people that are just that tho

Hitting someones future self doesn't affect their present self though. That only affects Solaris because one version of himself existed throughout all of time.

Yes it would, at every point in the fight they be getting hit, ar every moment of the future

 

[Ss3micah]

So what's the Win Con's for both sides so far?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Shadow's works on people that are just that tho


Yes it would, at every point in the fight they be getting hit, ar every moment of the future

It works on people who resist causality manipulation or are removed from it? Such as whom? I wouldn't doubt it, but I do need an example.

If that we're the case, would Solaris not just always be recoiling from every landed attack? After all, he'd be getting hit whenever time elapsed. Yet he's never taking damage until he's hit again.

 

[LaserPrecision]

So what's the Win Con's for both sides so far?

Tbh, not much has been discussed

 

[Vietthai96]

He resist dark ki, which have that:

Special Ki Manipulation (Dragon Ball)

Ki (気き?, lit. "Spirit"), also known as Chi/Qi, Yōki (妖よう気き?) or simply Energy (エネルギー, Enerugī?), is a famous and central power in the Dragon Ball franchise. In the Dragon Ball Heroes multiverse, Ki is expanded into many more unique, special types of Ki, used by different beings, races which is...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hearts didn't resist Dark Ki

That's just one application of Dark Ki. Shenron wasn't even using the causality manipulation that Dark Ki is said to have. Just distorted time. Which isn't at all causality manip.

What???

 

[Fezzih_007]

Hearts didn't resist Dark Ki

Ah, i read it wrong.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Sorry, ok so Hearts don't resist Casuality.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Hearts didn't resist Dark Ki


What???

I didn't click the link as I'm on mobile. So admittedly I couldn't see the example. So I went by word of mouth. Vaguely "distorting time" doesn't prove that they were using the Causality hax of Dark Ki. There'd need to be proof that he was using that specific utilization of Dark Ki.

 

[Vietthai96]

I didn't click the link as I'm on mobile. So admittedly I couldn't see the example. So I went by word of mouth. Vaguely "distorting time" doesn't prove that they were using the Causality hax of Dark Ki. There'd need to be proof that he was using that specific utilization of Dark Ki.

Time in the verse is also cause and effect system, it is explained in the Causality Manipulation part of Dark Ki, so yeah distort time mean distort causality, detail is on the page as well as i also on phone so it is a pain to replt. About Dark Shenron, his mere awakening did the feat. Still Hearts didn't resist Dark Ki so that doesn't matter

 

[LaserPrecision]

Time in the verse is also cause and effect system, it is explained in the Causality Manipulation part of Dark Ki, so yeah distort time mean distort causality, detail is on the page as well as i also on phone so it is a pain to replt. About Dark Shenron, his mere awakening did the feat. Still Hearts didn't resist Dark Ki so that doesn't matter

Time in most verses operates on a cause and effect system. That doesn't mean ALL time related shenanigans should be assumed to be causality manipulation. Distorting time could cause MANY things. Such as affecting causality as already stated, but it could also mean the rate at which it flows is being distorted (I.e. slower or faster or oscillating), it could be stopping, reality can be visibly distorted, etc.

It really makes zero sense to assume distorting time is by default meaning changing history. Especially if history isn't stated to be altered by the distortion. If it is then yeah, in that instance it was causality manipulation.

 

[Fezzih_007]

So Hearts have to PowerNull here, seems like a repeat for the last Dragon Ball matches.

 

[Vietthai96]

Time in most verses operates on a cause and effect system. That doesn't mean ALL time related shenanigans should be assumed to be causality manipulation. Distorting time could cause MANY things. Such as affecting causality as already stated, but it could also mean the rate at which it flows is being distorted (I.e. slower or faster or oscillating), it could be stopping, reality can be visibly distorted, etc.

It really makes zero sense to assume distorting time is by default meaning changing history. Especially if history isn't stated to be altered by the distortion. If it is then yeah, in that instance it was causality manipulation.

What the hell man, i already said time in this verse, why you bring other verse in, in this verse, time is history and causality, it is explained in Causality Manipulation section of the page, no one assume distorting time mean distorting causality

 

[Omegabronic]

It works on people who resist causality manipulation or are removed from it? Such as whom? I wouldn't doubt it, but I do need an example.

When you say "removed from it" what do you mean exactly? I need to know this to answer properly i feel

If that we're the case, would Solaris not just always be recoiling from every landed attack? After all, he'd be getting hit whenever time elapsed. Yet he's never taking damage until he's hit again.

Not really, since there is not multiple versions of solaris in the past and future, itnis only 1 solaris, so hitting him in all of time will feel like 1 single hit to him since that is how he functions as a being

 

[Omegabronic]

So what's the Win Con's for both sides so far?

Shadow: hitting once and conceptually destroy hearts through all of time

Hearts: not given yet bu dbh supporters

 

[Fezzih_007]

Shadow: hitting once and conceptually destroy hearts through all of time

Hearts: not given yet bu dbh supporters

Powernull

 

[Ss3micah]

Shadow: hitting once and conceptually destroy hearts through all of time

Hearts: not given yet bu dbh supporters

Well
Hearts can easily create Barriers to block direct attacks from Shadow
Heart Reading that can be used to always keep himself on step ahead of shadow
He can use Stamina Hax to consistently reduce Shadow's stamina by large chunks until it eventually falls to Zero forcing him out of Super Form
And Powenull that's Passive for added Good measure of stopping Shadow in his tracks

 

[Omegabronic]

So Hearts have to PowerNull here, seems like a repeat for the last Dragon Ball matches.

Okay but does he power null shadow's wincons?

 

[Omegabronic]

Powernull

Has it being shown to null comceptual manip and the temporal aoe stuff?

 

[Vietthai96]

Temporal AoE stuff: Yes

Conceptual things: No

 

[Omegabronic]

Okay then, shadow can one shot with any attack then, hearts starts with telepathy and then gravity stuff?

 

[Ss3micah]

Okay then, shadow can one shot with any attack then, hearts starts with telepathy and then gravity stuff?

Assuming Shadow can even land a hit on Hearts
Barriers and Telepathy is gonna make it difficult for Shadow
Plus Hearts has various Passive Stamina Reduction effects (that works on Infinite Stamina beings) that can just be used to take large percentages of Shadows stamina with each second and once Shadow's stamina reaches zero then he depowers out of Superform and disables the rest of his abilities and leaves him in a state where he is unable to act

 

[AStrangeverse]

I'd assume his heart reading, which he does usually start with, would clue him in on how dangerous Shadow is, and he'd probs resort to some of his more lethal options

got ninja'd, got dam

 

[Vietthai96]

Hearts mind reading is passive, probably the only requirement is he need to look at his opponents. And yeah he start with gravity hax, it is his signature move and he love spamming it. His gravity hax can pin down Immeasurable LS and can compress people and object

 

[AStrangeverse]

and I guess nothing really stops Hearts from simply redirecting any Chaos attacks from Shadow via TK, unless I'm missing something

 

[Omegabronic]

Assuming Shadow can even land a hit on Hearts

In character 54x speed amp, or a blitz amp with homing attack, that instinctively hits weak spota while also following the oponent to hit it

Barriers and Telepathy is gonna make it difficult for Shadow

telepathy surely will, but shadow can just teleport inside the barriers

Plus Hearts has various Passive Stamina Reduction effects (that works on Infinite Stamina beings) that can just be used to take large percentages of Shadows stamina with each second and once Shadow's stamina reaches zero then he depowers out of Superform and disables the rest of his abilities and leaves him in a state where he is unable to act

Shadow has the emeralds with him, they are powered by the thoughts and emotions of the user, making him constantly rechaege himself with them, that and plus base shadow having infinite stamina already, so the stamina stuff will likely not be enough

 

[Fezzih_007]

Shadow has the emeralds with him, they are powered by the thoughts and emotions of the user, making him constantly rechaege himself with them, that and plus base shadow having infinite stamina already, so the stamina stuff will likely not be enough

Hearts stamina Reduction is super layered trought, he have like 9 forms of stamina and statics Reduction, which is greatly enchanched in this Key, Shadow recharge might not be enough

Also, do you have scans for his recharge?

 

[AStrangeverse]

In character 54x speed amp, or a blitz amp with homing attack, that instinctively hits weak spota while also following the oponent to hit it

idk about that one

sure, Shade scales, but that whole "IC speed amp" seems geared more towards Sonic's plate than Shadow, who mainly does Chaos shenanigans

telepathy surely will, but shadow can just teleport inside the barriers

Hearts' barriers ain't like 17's

when he uses his barriers, it's mostly to encase the enemy, and even if Shadow decided to teleport, nothing really stops Hearts from summoning another cubical barrier or just teleporting Shadow back into it

Shadow has the emeralds with him, they are powered by the thoughts and emotions of the user, making him constantly rechaege himself with them, that and plus base shadow having infinite stamina already, so the stamina stuff will likely not be enough

p sure infinite stamina doesn't stack, at most the two would likely cancel out or nvm, perhaps I was ninja'd again

 

[Ss3micah]

In character 54x speed amp, or a blitz amp with homing attack, that instinctively hits weak spota while also following the oponent to hit it

Shadow doesn't strike me as the type to start of with that
He seems to be more into using Chaos Energy shenanigans
Not saying he wouldn't nor cant do it
Just not his starting move

telepathy surely will, but shadow can just teleport inside the barriers

The Barrier in question would incase and trap and restrain shadow
And Hearts has the necessary LS plus immense scaling chain with multipliers so Boot
PLUS he can always add Gravity Hax as an extra layer of restraint

Shadow has the emeralds with him, they are powered by the thoughts and emotions of the user, making him constantly rechaege himself with them, that and plus base shadow having infinite stamina already, so the stamina stuff will likely not be enough

Not sure if Stamina stacking like that is a thing and even it was then Hearts can stamina stack as well considering Hearts has MULTIPLE (like literally dozens) of Stamina Reduction abilities ALL of which would be acting on Shadow simultaneously
And these Stamina Hax can work on beings who Stamina are as Everlasting as Time and Infinite History itself
So yeah, Chaos Emerald not refueling anything

 

[LaserPrecision]

What the hell man, i already said time in this verse, why you bring other verse in, in this verse, time is history and causality, it is explained in Causality Manipulation section of the page, no one assume distorting time mean distorting causality

Woah, chilllll. I was saying that this isn't the case for just Dragon Ball 99% of verses follow the idea of causality being tied to time. Now I'm confused. Do you think what Shenron did is causality manipulation or not?

When you say "removed from it" what do you mean exactly? I need to know this to answer properly i feel


Not really, since there is not multiple versions of solaris in the past and future, itnis only 1 solaris, so hitting him in all of time will feel like 1 single hit to him since that is how he functions as a being

Removed from causality would be a character who isn't bound by the law of causality, and thus outside of it. Because of it, causality related hax wouldn't work on them. That's a simple way to put it.

If anything, that would mean he'd suffer from a hit worse than a normal person since he'd be getting hit infinitely throughout time. Yet he only ever recoils once from attack. He doesn't just immediately explode and die.

 

[Vietthai96]

Hearts "barrier" actually is his Gravity Cage, which also contain his gravity power, he like to trap peoples in his cage, so teleporting into his "suppose" barrier will just mean you walk right into his trap, also he can forcefully teleport peoples out, like he teleport Cumber into different universe, sure he not gonna BFR his enemy like that right at the start, but he gonna use it if he need.

DBH stamina hax can affect infinite stamina like TPU Mechikabura and Android, so i need to know how fast Sonic can recharge his stamina

 

[Vietthai96]

Woah, chilllll. I was saying that this isn't the case for just Dragon Ball 99% of verses follow the idea of causality being tied to time. Now I'm confused. Do you think what Shenron did is causality manipulation or not?

Eh oh, i'm fine, but anyway, Shenron is the one who did the causality feat with his mere awakening after the dragon balls which constitude him get Dark Ki

 

[LaserPrecision]

Eh oh, i'm fine, but anyway, Shenron is the one who did the causality feat with his mere awakening after the dragon balls which constitude him get Dark Ki

Then I'll have to admit that time and causality being tied to one another meaning that manipulating time is by default causality manipulation goes over my head. You can manipulate time without changing causality. What did Shenron change in history that affected the present and future? If nothing changed, then I genuinely don't think that warrants being causality manipulation. Not causality manipulation that can be used offensively anyway.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Okay then, shadow can one shot with any attack then, hearts starts with telepathy and then gravity stuff?

A bit late, but once again, Shadow being able to directly target ones concept isn't yet accepted. That's for a CRT to come I had planned. It would be hypocritical of you to use an ability not yet on the profile when you in the past have not allowed the use of updated material accepted in a CRT because it wasn't yet on the profile. That will soon be a win-con (As well as 5D hax), but not as of now.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Oh, so Shadow can't One-Shot in this match, what other things he can do?

 

[Omegabronic]

Hearts stamina Reduction is super layered trought, he have like 9 forms of stamina and statics Reduction, which is greatly enchanched in this Key, Shadow recharge might not be enough

I mean, does it drain fast enough for that?

Also, do you have scans for his recharge?

An Analysis of the Chaos Emeralds

vsbattles.fandom.com

idk about that one

sure, Shade scales, but that whole "IC speed amp" seems geared more towards Sonic's plate than Shadow, who mainly does Chaos shenanigans

Shadow mostly uses his boost or homing attack alongside his chaos powers like teleportation and such

Hearts' barriers ain't like 17's

when he uses his barriers, it's mostly to encase the enemy, and even if Shadow decided to teleport, nothing really stops Hearts from summoning another cubical barrier or just teleporting Shadow back into it

and nothing stops shadow from teleporting right out of it as well

p sure infinite stamina doesn't stack, at most the two would likely cancel out or nvm, perhaps I was ninja'd again

I mean, he already has infinite stamine, and then gets more infinity with the emeralds, it seems just logic you know?

Shadow doesn't strike me as the type to start of with that
He seems to be more into using Chaos Energy shenanigans
Not saying he wouldn't nor cant do it
Just not his starting move

That is why i said "in character" to use, when he seems that hearts is just not allowing him to do much with his chaos powers he will be quick to switch into other stuff like the amps

The Barrier in question would incase and trap and restrain shadow
And Hearts has the necessary LS plus immense scaling chain with multipliers so Boot
PLUS he can always add Gravity Hax as an extra layer of restraint

Shadow can just teleport out of it

Not sure if Stamina stacking like that is a thing and even it was then Hearts can stamina stack as well considering Hearts has MULTIPLE (like literally dozens) of Stamina Reduction abilities ALL of which would be acting on Shadow simultaneously

how fast are these?

And these Stamina Hax can work on beings who Stamina are as Everlasting as Time and Infinite History itself
So yeah, Chaos Emerald not refueling anything

Don't see how this is more impressive than shadow's refueling

Removed from causality would be a character who isn't bound by the law of causality, and thus outside of it. Because of it, causality related hax wouldn't work on them. That's a simple way to put it.

Oh okay, that would be a type of acausality type 5 i am sure, in that case yeah, i
Temporal AOE wouldn't work

If anything, that would mean he'd suffer from a hit worse than a normal person since he'd be getting hit infinitely throughout time.

not really, everyone hited by that would be getting hit infinitely throughout time, solaris is only ever hited "once" by his perspective, since all of time is the same thing to him

Yet he only ever recoils once from attack. He doesn't just immediately explode and die.

Yeah, because he is being hit by an attack that by his perspective is only hitting once

Hearts "barrier" actually is his Gravity Cage, which also contain his gravity power, he like to trap peoples in his cage, so teleporting into his "suppose" barrier will just mean you walk right into his trap

Well, he can also Just seal + bfr him into another dimension, dows hearts have answer to that?

also he can forcefully teleport peoples out, like he teleport Cumber into different universe, sure he not gonna BFR his enemy like that right at the start, but he gonna use it if he need.

How much range is that?

DBH stamina hax can affect infinite stamina like TPU Mechikabura and Android, so i need to know how fast Sonic can recharge his stamina

Everythought and emotion he feels throught out the battle

 

[Omegabronic]

A bit late, but once again, Shadow being able to directly target ones concept isn't yet accepted. That's for a CRT to come I had planned. It would be hypocritical of you to use an ability not yet on the profile when you in the past have not allowed the use of updated material accepted in a CRT because it wasn't yet on the profile. That will soon be a win-con (As well as 5D hax), but not as of now.

Actually it is, we accepted the ability has concept manipulation for a reason, because shadow is directly manipulating a concept while attacking

Oh, so Shadow can't One-Shot in this match, what other things he can do?

Sealing

 

[LaserPrecision]

not really, everyone hited by that would be getting hit infinitely throughout time, solaris is only ever hited "once" by his perspective, since all of time is the same thing to him

Mmmm, maybe. I think that would work for characters who are a Space-Time in and of themselves since time would be their body. Though in Solaris' case they have a 3D body that exists across all of time. So not 100% sure about that tbh

 

[LaserPrecision]

Actually it is, we accepted the ability has concept manipulation for a reason, because shadow is directly manipulating a concept while attacking

What? No. It's the whole reason I added it to my document. Because we don't currently accept Super Forms as targeting a persons concept. We only accept as being able to hit a body that embodies a concept. There was a CRT undoing Super Sonic being able to directly attack a concept, and you saw me arguing with Shake about this in another thread. It's quite clear that's not what's currently accepted, it wouldn't be in my document otherwise.