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Hearts vs Shadow

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Greenshifter said:
Hearts has more LS due to scaling chain, but yeah due to invulnerability he only gets paralysed
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Does he really tho? Shadow has is own scaling chain and the baseline of the scaling chain is already above a baseline Multiverse by a fair amount at that. Not to mention, even if he did have a lifting strength advantage, he would need an ap advantage to crush him. You can't crush with only a lifting strength advantage
 
Greenshifter said:
Not even that, but Shadow can just teleport out of range or Hearts will teleport out of range since Shadow can out-teleport him and stab him.

No because it’s 2 unrelated power sets having the same effect with the only common factor being gravity.

Base Goku literally no-sells that kind of gravity, so it should have no affect on IT.

Zamasu never tried and he might just have the same limitation as Goku, regardless of if he uses subspace or another realm to teleport through.

He can just test it out until Hearts no longer knows what he’s gonna do. Also Hearts himself could just do it for him initially due to the threat of chaos spear (assuming Shadow’s range is only planetary), at which point Shadow catches on.

What if Shadow teleports to Hearts? Shadow can immediately use his danger sense to re-teleport if Hearts starts lining up his EE. At which point they are stuck in a loop until Shadow speed amps and out-teleports Hearts. At which point he has time to consider teleporting a chaos spear into Hearts, who then will teleport outside of Shadow’s range. Then Shadow catches on that Hearts can no longer read his mind, at which point Shadow can just teleport speedblitz a chaos spear into Heart’s chest or go back in time.

He literally can’t is the point, he’s too slow to pull it off.
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So are you saying that he can’t read hearts at a certain range even if he looks at them I have 0 idea what you’re saying here referring to Range
 
LaserPrecision said:
Does he really tho? Shadow has is own scaling chain and the baseline of the scaling chain is already above a baseline Multiverse by a fair amount at that.
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I’m pretty sure Shadow’s immeasurable LS is a bit above baseline whereas Hearts’ is decently above infinitely above that.
LaserPrecision said:
Not to mention, even if he did have a lifting strength advantage, he would need an ap advantage to crush him. You can't crush with only a lifting strength advantage
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I am aware, other people seem to not be
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
So are you saying that he can’t read hearts at a certain range even if he looks at them I have 0 idea what you’re saying here referring to Range
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Hearts can read people’s mind from all across the planet in this form, however we don’t know if he can do anything beyond that.
 
Greenshifter said:
I’m pretty sure Shadow’s immeasurable LS is a bit above baseline whereas Hearts’ is decently above infinitely above that.

I am aware, other people seem to not be
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Infinitely in the literal sense, or figurative sense. That said, I'm pretty sure you can argue Shadow to be infinitely above baseline immeasurable.

Ah, I see
 
Ss3micah said:
I'd like to take this moment to say how much I appreciated both the DB and Sonic communities lol
Over 5 Pages of debating and we still remain sane, civil and chilled, having fun and enjoying ourselves
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Exactly, the vs battle wiki fanbase part of both are so much more fun than youtube's, 2 of my favorites having a nice debate over it, i love it
 
Greenshifter said:
Hearts can read people’s mind from all across the planet in this form, however we don’t know if he can do anything beyond that.
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How would Shadow have enough time to realize that he can read his mind I don’t see him getting past the gravity manip and then EE because even if he tries to attack him Hearts can read him
 
AStrangeverse said:
doesn't matter if ya agreed, what matters is you not relying on a false wincon
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Until it gets removed i will go with it, if you want me to stop i will

AStrangeverse said:
what isn't mentioned on the profile is elaborated upon in the thread
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and i wait for proof of said elaboration

AStrangeverse said:
they are, but we treat them as any regular ass ability, not that they literally have to use a card to activate it
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do they have to activate the card to use it in game? Because if so that is how they should and will be treated

AStrangeverse said:
clearly not, cuz you keep spouting bull
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be civil i ask

AStrangeverse said:
cuz it's something he doesn't resist
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Elasticity + invulnerability makes gravity only ablr to make him not move

Greenshifter said:
Eh Omega and the other guy kinda went at it with monster posts, aside from that yeah
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;)
 
Greenshifter said:
Isn’t it only Solaris who’s finite 4D? Literal sense btw.
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Solaris scales to being able to consume the multiverse down to the very concept of time in lifting strength. Said Mulverse is already is already infinite, but for every dream across those infinite universes a new universe is born, meaning infinite more universes (as dreams are treated as universes in maginaryworld). On top of that, Sonic's multiverse operates on every possibility creating a new universe. So at bare minimum, Sonic's 2-A Multiverse is infinite*infinite*infinite. Though it can easily be argued far higher than that. And that's ignoring the scaling chain.
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
How would Shadow have enough time to realize that he can read his mind I don’t see him getting past the gravity manip and then EE because even if he tries to attack him Hearts can read him
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Our discussion is a bit outdated but my reasoning was that Shadow would realize because Heart would teleport himself outside of mind reading range when Shadow tries to chaos spear him. Thus making Hearts unprepared for Shadow’s attack after that, which Shadow will notice.

This doesn’t matter anymore since Shadow can now just speed up his thoughts to the point Hearts can’t keep up so gg
 
LaserPrecision said:
Solaris scales to being able to consume the multiverse down to the very concept of time in lifting strength. Said Mulverse is already is already infinite, but for every dream across those infinite universes a new universe is born, meaning infinite more universes (as dreams are treated as universes in maginaryworld). On top of that, Sonic's multiverse operates on every possibility creating a new universe. So at bare minimum, Sonic's 2-A Multiverse is infinite*infinite*infinite. Though it can easily be argued far higher than that. And that's ignoring the scaling chain.
Click to expand...
Hmm, not sure if that’s allowed for LS though since it doesn’t do anything for AP
 
Greenshifter said:
Hmm, not sure if that’s allowed for LS though since it doesn’t do anything for AP
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For AP, all I think it does it put it above "baseline" 2-A if I'm reading the vsbw pages right. Pretty sure it does put lifting strength infinitely above baseline though (Shadow doesn't scale to The End yet, but The End is good for the scaling chain because that people like Solaris are finite and that they are infinite).
 
LaserPrecision said:
Jeez I missed a lot. Ill vote in on for now, not because that's what I believe, but to stall the thread so I can read it, and write my take on the match. I do have a few questions though

1. How high is Hearts lifting strength. Because I keep seeing things about Hearts being able to crush Shadow with a black hole
2. What are the numbers on the stat decreases? Because if it's unquantifiable or small, it won't be able to nublado a 54x speed AT ALL. I assume in-game, we can see how much it decreases the players speed?
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Well, there's one that reduce in 7x, one that reduce to half, and other that reduce to zero.
LaserPrecision said:
It should be noted Shadow can stack speed buffs as well. He can use boost or spin dash (both of which are 54x speed amps) with Chaos Control on top which he can use to accelerate his body through time, fast-forwarding himself so fast he makes those previously comparable to him seem like a slug and more.
Click to expand...
I noticed now that you voted, okay then.
 
I'm back. Anywho, hearts can only summon from ultra god mission iirc. But summoning Cumber means Shadow is getting passively Mind haxed.
And as for Speed amps. 1-Hearts can't decrease speed. 2- The slower character in an eqaul speed battle can't use amps to speed blitz the faster character. So shadows speed amps are useless. 3- why would shadow Go out of hearts range without any reason?
 
TheGreatBanana said:
I'm back. Anywho, hearts can only summon from ultra god mission iirc. But summoning Cumber means Shadow is getting passively Mind haxed.
Click to expand...
Resisted

TheGreatBanana said:
And as for Speed amps. 1-Hearts can't decrease speed. 2- The slower character in an eqaul speed battle can't use amps to speed blitz the faster character. So shadows speed amps are useless.
Click to expand...
he can actually, the match just can't be added if that happenS
 
Greenshifter said:
Our discussion is a bit outdated but my reasoning was that Shadow would realize because Heart would teleport himself outside of mind reading range when Shadow tries to chaos spear him. Thus making Hearts unprepared for Shadow’s attack after that, which Shadow will notice.

This doesn’t matter anymore since Shadow can now just speed up his thoughts to the point Hearts can’t keep up so gg
Click to expand...
If Hearts can anticipate the attack why would he go out of his range when he wouldn’t need to do that to avoid a spear? That logic makes 0 sense wtf
 
TheGreatBanana said:
I'm back. Anywho, hearts can only summon from ultra god mission iirc. But summoning Cumber means Shadow is getting passively Mind haxed.
And as for Speed amps. 1-Hearts can't decrease speed. 2- The slower character in an eqaul speed battle can't use amps to speed blitz the faster character. So shadows speed amps are useless. 3- why would shadow Go out of hearts range without any reason?
Click to expand...
Only thing I wanna reply to here for now (ill respond to more after reading the thread later) is the speed part. What does Hearts scale to in speed? Because Shadow is a FUCKTON above Baseline immeasurable in Super
 
 
LaserPrecision said:
Only thing I wanna reply to here for now (ill respond to more after reading the thread later) is the speed part. What does Hearts scale to in speed? Because Shadow is a FUCKTON above Baseline immeasurable in Super
Click to expand...
That is a very very good question.
Unfortunately for you, The scaling chain is messed up so i can only give you the most bare bone answer.
How many times is shadow above baseline?
 
TheGreatBanana said:
That is a very very good question.
Unfortunately for you, The scaling chain is messed up so i can only give you the most bare bone answer.
How many times is shadow above baseline?
Click to expand...
As of right now, casually above quintillions of times baseline immeasurable. That's not accounting for scaling chains ofc. But after a CRT I have planned, he will scale infinite*baseline Immeasurable and then some (not accounting for scaling chains for simplicity sake). It is a verse known for speed, so this ain't too much of a surprise.
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
If Hearts can anticipate the attack why would he go out of his range when he wouldn’t need to do that to avoid a spear? That logic makes 0 sense wtf
Click to expand...
His safest option to avoid the spear is to go outside of Shadow’s teleportation range, which is equal to his mind reading range, at least.
 
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