Hazbin Hotel: The Reckoning of Immortality type 5

[DaReaperMan]

Hazbin is an entertaining verse, not very many things are complex enough to matter, but... a contention has always been Immortality type 5 for me.

Demon Physiology (Hazbin Hotel)

Demons are the supernatural denizens of Hell, whether they be native to the world or from the mortal realm, and make up the cast of Hazbin Hotel and its spin-off series Helluva Boss. They are ruled by the King of Hell Lucifer and live within the seven Rings of Hell, where they can stir up any...

vsbattles.fandom.com

So I'm gonna rough it up.

To start with, Type 5 just... doesn't have support. At all. The only thing remotely pointing to it is the whole Angelic weapons are needed to kill them thing, and that can just be because they are ridiculously hard to properly kill to the point nobody has been able to do it. There's not even a statement indicating type 5, the fact it's gotten away with all of this for so long is a miracle.

Obviously, same verse same as the first for Angel Immortality and they don't get type 5 either.

And then there's Invulnerability. I'm killing it, so let's go through everything.

• Razzle and Dazzle are Charlie's guards, heavily implying Lucifer thinks that there are things in Hell capable of actually harming her, while she's a weird case, she still has Invulnerability on her profile, so she's here.
• Adam gets staggered by Alastor, he should be Senator Armstrong-ing that shit but he's forced to take a couple steps back. It doesn't really hurt him or injure him, but it's still notable
• Lute has plenty of examples, such as her face being cut through her mask and being otherwise physically damaged by rubble, of everything here, she's definitely the most blatant issue.

But then why would it be repeatedly stated that Angelic Weapons are needed to harm them?​

Simple, really. Angels are just more durable than demons. You need to remember that almost everyone on the show is either an Overlord or can trade blows with a power-based one, the general populace are not that strong. Exterminators don't really go after Overlords before the season finale, and the only time they did they ******* DIED. Carmilla has Angelic weapons sure but that doenst change the fact that she's WELL above your average sinner.

 

[SlendVeny]

I never agreed with angelic invulnerability, tbh.

 

[ShionAH]

Razzle and Dazzle are Charlie's guards, heavily implying Lucifer thinks that there are things in Hell capable of actually harming her, while she's a weird case, she still has Invulnerability on her profile, so she's here.

Uh no? They may very well be protecting her from Overlords that may try to trick her. We see this in some episodes especially in 7.

• Adam gets staggered by Alastor, he should be Senator Armstrong-ing that shit but he's forced to take a couple steps back. It doesn't really hurt him or injure him, but it's still notable

Nope, not all Inv are Senator Armstronging it. There are MANY characters that are Invulnerable while still being thrown around.

Invulerability is never actually supposed to be comepletely unmoveable, its being unharmable

Lute has plenty of examples, such as her face being cut through her mask and being otherwise physically damaged by rubble, of everything here, she's definitely the most blatant issue.

Literally the onyl actual antifeat is this, also the reason why the Invunlerability isnt a full one

I hard disagree on some of this, I will make a bigger post later, dont FRA train it

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Simple, really. Angels are just more durable than demons. You need to remember that almost everyone on the show is either an Overlord or can trade blows with a power-based one, the general populace are not that strong. Exterminators don't really go after Overlords before the season finale, and the only time they did they ******* DIED. Carmilla has Angelic weapons sure but that doenst change the fact that she's WELL above your average sinner.

I don't see it being a stat thing when you consider that Vaggie, an angel, didn't think anything could harm them.
It definitely creates a lot of plot holes but it's kinda the entire premise of episode 7, sooooo

 

[ShionAH]

Exterminators don't really go after Overlords before the season finale, and the only time they did they ******* DIED.

Literally ******* wrong. When Al dissapered everyone assumed he died to Exterminators, we see Vees literally hide when the Angels come showing Overlords fear them. All this is supported by Adam having no idea who Overlords are

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I mean, Carmilla can harm Vaggie, and she needed Angelic Weapons to kill other exterminators, if it was only for dura it wouldn’t be the case. Disagree with Immo Type 5 removal for angels.

• Adam gets staggered by Alastor, he should be Senator Armstrong-ing that shit but he's forced to take a couple steps back. It doesn't really hurt him or injure him, but it's still notable

It does but whatever, gotta need my own CRT on that (should’ve worked on Alastor CRT instead of Chara/Frisk one, although both are probably equally controversial so whatever ig)

Also I don’t really think that Alastor’s powers are demonic, but let’s wait for season 2 ig

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

All this is supported by Adam having no idea who Overlords are

He knows who Angel Dust is tho-

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Uh no? They may very well be protecting her from Overlords that may try to trick her. We see this in some episodes especially in 7.

Me when Alastor still got his deal:

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't see it being a stat thing considering that Vaggie, an angel, didn't think anything could harm them.
It definitely produces a lot of plot holes but it's the entire premise of episode 7, sooooo

It's called Propaganda Adem. Adam basically pushes that Exterminators are invincible, this is why Lute was freaking out when it was discovered that one ******* died. keep in mind, Vaggie didn't even know one died at all.

Literally ******* wrong. When Al dissapered everyone assumed he died to Exterminators, we see Vees literally hide when the Angels come showing Overlords fear them. All this is supported by Adam having no idea who Overlords are

Yeah. ASSUMED. We dont have anything from an Overlord or people comparable to one fighting an Angel that didn't result in the Angel being beaten outside of Adam V Alastor. Also, there's no small amount of Exterminators, and like... 15 Overlords. Even the Hazbin crew were being steadily overwhelmed once Alastor went down.

Uh no? They may very well be protecting her from Overlords that may try to trick her. We see this in some episodes especially in 7.

Did a really good job at that, huh? They can't even really talk to our knowledge so they can't really protect her unless they're trying to kill any Overlord that gets near her. They don't do that.

Nope, not all Inv are Senator Armstronging it. There are MANY characters that are Invulnerable while still being thrown around.

Invulerability is never actually supposed to be comepletely unmoveable, its being unharmable

And yet, Adam was staggered. That's a pretty big ******* deal for someone who's supposed to not be able to take damage!

I hard disagree on some of this, I will make a bigger post later, dont FRA train it

I don't know why you're worried, Shion. No staff supports Hazbin lol

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean, Carmilla can harm Vaggie, and she needed Angelic Weapons to kill other exterminators, if it was only for dura it wouldn’t be the case. Disagree with Immo Type 5 removal for angels.

Wow, almost like Carmilla was my example for Exterminators being comparable to Overlords in Durability, huh? Vaggie isn't exactly above the par except in skill post-Carmilla fight.

Also, where does type 5 Immortality come from?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'll say, it's a bunch of statements with no support besides other statements. When do we see an Angel actually no-sell an attack? We have a shown anti-feat to it, so where's the feat?

 

[LemonedEyes]

I never agreed with angelic invulnerability, tbh.

I feel like it should be a thing, but the show is really inconsistent.

Plus no matter whether you believe it or not it always twist my balls whenever I try to make sense of it.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

And then there's Invulnerability. I'm killing it, so let's go through everything.

• Razzle and Dazzle are Charlie's guards, heavily implying Lucifer thinks that there are things in Hell capable of actually harming her, while she's a weird case, she still has Invulnerability on her profile, so she's here.
• Adam gets staggered by Alastor, he should be Senator Armstrong-ing that shit but he's forced to take a couple steps back. It doesn't really hurt him or injure him, but it's still notable
• Lute has plenty of examples, such as her face being cut through her mask and being otherwise physically damaged by rubble, of everything here, she's definitely the most blatant issue.

Also, the way the wiki currently handles the invincibility/type 5 thing is angels in general (or connected to that like Charlie)

But like, are there Cherubim? You know, angels too. Who are harmed by the IMP without angelic weapons.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Wow, almost like Carmilla was my example for Exterminators being comparable to Overlords in Durability, huh? Vaggie isn't exactly above the par except in skill post-Carmilla fight.

All of Angels are shit-fighters, Carmilla is far skilled as seen in fight with Vaggie. If she could have harmed them the way she could harm Vaggie, Carmilla wouldn’t even need AWs, she would just outskill them and win like that

Also, lemme say, Alastor actually DID use Angelic Weapons to kill the other exterminators

 

[LemonedEyes]

Also, lemme say, Alastor actually DID use Angelic Weapons to kill the other exterminators

Yes he did, but he never used it against the more powerful angel, Adam.

Also what's weird is that it was stated that angels can't be harmed by anything but their own weapons or kind, but get pressed by rubble, and a demonic shield.

 

[DaReaperMan]

All of Angels are shit-fighters, Carmilla is far skilled as seen in fight with Vaggie. If she could have harmed them the way she could harm Vaggie, Carmilla wouldn’t even need AWs, she would just outskill them and win like that

Carmilla is pragmatic, why would you use normal weapons and your physicality when you could use the thing you know can one-shot them? Plus, Vaggie never stopped being an angel lol

Also, lemme say, Alastor actually DID use Angelic Weapons to kill the other exterminators

Same verse, same as the first, I think.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Yes he did, but he never used it against the more powerful angel, Adam.

Because he’s cocky. Imagine someone with ego of Alastor to beat the general of exorcists without Angelic Weapons. Especially that after 7 years of disappearance, almost nobody now knows him and almost everyone lost respect to him.

Also what's weird is that angels can't be harmed by anything but their own weapons or kind, but get pressed by rubble,

I can agree on Invulnerability being specifically against Demons, although Immo Type 5 makes far more sense to me

and a demonic shield.

They never got harmed through demonic shield, they just couldn’t break through it. Why would Alastor need AWs if he could’ve killed them with single tentacles, if we see that his tentacle forcefield >>> Exterminators besides Asam?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also, the way the wiki currently handles the invincibility/type 5 thing is angels in general (or connected to that like Charlie)

But like, are there Cherubim? You know, angels too. Who are harmed by the IMP without angelic weapons.

Fair enough, but it could be a case like with IMP that the statements just don't apply to them

 

[Da3ggman]

This kind of shit is what happened when you have 10 writers on a team headed by Vivzie lmao.

Adam gets staggered by Alastor, he should be Senator Armstrong-ing that shit but he's forced to take a couple steps back. It doesn't really hurt him or injure him, but it's still notable.

In all seriousness, I agree with the removals, but I find this to be a bit of a weird example.

The definition for staggered according to the Oxford Dictionary is to “walk or move unsteadily, as if about to fall.” No where in that definition does it state that you need to take damage in order to be staggered by something. Alastor just exerted enough force in his attacks to push back Adam slightly, something that is absolutely possible to do to an invincible character; hell, he visibly doesn’t take any damage from the attack, despite being caught off guard.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Because he’s cocky. Imagine someone with ego of Alastor to beat the general of exorcists without Angelic Weapons. Especially that after 7 years of disappearance, almost nobody now knows him and almost everyone lost respect to him.

Yeah this is basically the case. He can do minor damage to Adam too so there's that.

I can agree on Invulnerability being specifically against Demons, although Immo Type 5 makes far more sense to me

Again, where does Immo Type 5 come from?

They never got harmed through demonic shield, they just couldn’t break through it. Why would Alastor need AWs if he could’ve killed them with single tentacles, if we see that his tentacle forcefield >>> Exterminators besides Asam?

Also said shield was made by Charlie IIRC, so it'd be Angelic in nature.

This kind of shit is what happened when you have 10 writers on a team headed by Vivzie lmao.

In all seriousness, I agree with the removals, but I find this to be a bit of a weird example.

The definition for staggered according to the Oxford Dictionary is to “walk or move unsteadily, as if about to fall.” No where in that definition does it state that you need to take damage in order to be staggered by something. Alastor just exerted enough force in his attacks to push back Adam slightly, something that is absolutely possible to do to an invincible character; hell, he visibly doesn’t take any damage from the attack, despite being caught off guard.

He does rub his chin a bit though, so there's that

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Fair enough, but it could be a case like with IMP that the statements just don't apply to them

I just said how the wiki currently treats it, which is just angels in general, and not something specific like "only terminators have that"

If that changed I wouldn't mind. So at the moment, as it is "general", the anti-cherubim feat can be used to support the removal of invulnerability.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Carmilla is pragmatic, why would you use normal weapons and your physicality when you could use the thing you know can one-shot them?

I mean, the narrative was clearly about that

Plus, Vaggie never stopped being an angel lol

That’s my point?

Same verse, same as the first, I think.

I don’t get it

Yeah this is basically the case. He can do minor damage to Adam too so there's that.

7-A Alastor fr

Again, where does Immo Type 5 come from?

I think it’s the only thing that explains why Angels can be harmed but considered unkillable ig? I mean we have far too many statements of them being indestructible and stuff like this. Carmilla is clearly comparable to Vaggie, it would make no sense for Overlords, like Valvette and Zestial, to consider them unkillable

Also said shield was made by Charlie IIRC, so it'd be Angelic in nature.

Alastor’s shield is working! We might actually have a chance!

Dude no offense but what the **** was that

He does rub his chin a bit though, so there's that

Yeah, he clearly did some damage to him tbf

 

[LemonedEyes]

They spent a whole episode getting Angelic weapons when they could've used fireworks, rubble, and Alastor smh.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

They spent a whole episode getting Angelic weapons when they could've used fireworks, rubble, and Alastor smh.

I mean, the point was that to get an army that isn’t a fodder compared to Exterminators

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean, the narrative was clearly about that

That’s my point?

I don’t get it

Then we're in agreement

7-A Alastor fr

Yeah "at most 7-A" in AP is fine, but that's for another CRT.

I think it’s the only thing that explains why Angels can be harmed but considered unkillable ig? I mean we have far too many statements of them being indestructible and stuff like this. Carmilla is clearly comparable to Vaggie, it would make no sense for Overlords, like Valvette and Zestial, to consider them unkillable

Type 2 Immortality covers this just fine. Lute was already fine after she ripped her own arm off, so they have actual feats behind such things.

Dude no offense but what the **** was that

I thought you were talking about the shield Charlie used in the battle, not Alastor's shield

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Then we're in agreement

Yeah "at most 7-A" in AP is fine, but that's for another CRT.

Alrighty

Type 2 Immortality covers this just fine. Lute was already fine after she ripped her own arm off, so they have actual feats behind such things.

Type 2 does not exactly make you unkillable

I thought you were talking about the shield Charlie used in the battle, not Alastor's shield

Did she have a shiel- oh wait, now I understand what y’all talking about

 

[DaReaperMan]

Type 2 does not exactly make you unkillable

Do you even FNaF bro?

Did she have a shiel- oh wait, now I understand what y’all talking about

Yep!

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Actually yknow what? **** it, I agree with Reaper.

There is also a fact that Heaven was afraid that Hell can take on Angels via sheer numbers (that’s why exterminations even began), which doesn’t make sense in Invulnerability/Immo Type 5 scenario, only in durability scenario

 

[LemonedEyes]

Actually yknow what? **** it, I agree with Reaper.

There is also a fact that Heaven was afraid that Hell can take on Angels via sheer numbers (that’s why exterminations even began), which doesn’t make sense in Invulnerability/Immo Type 5 scenario, only in durability scenario

Oh yeah I didn't even think about that.

Yeah remove Invulnerability from the profiles since it's extremely inconsistent + it's probably a durability thing if Heaven is still afraid of them.

 

[Just_Butchering]

I mean, Carmilla can harm Vaggie, and she needed Angelic Weapons to kill other exterminators, if it was only for dura it wouldn’t be the case. Disagree with Immo Type 5 removal for angels.

Carmilla has angelic shoes though.

Now, tbf, Vaggie vs Lute already shows them bleeding from just getting slammed into tables and walls.

However, Carmilla does seem to be the expert on the matter, and Vaggie (an angel herself) straight didn't know angels could be harm (even though she is missing an eye and her wings lol) and it was a big discovery that angels could be killed.

I know it's somewhat inconsistent (even in the same episode and the following one lol). But at the end, I think it's the point.

 

[LemonedEyes]

Carmilla has angelic shoes though.

Now, tbf, Vaggie vs Lute already shows them bleeding from just getting slammed into tables and walls.

However, Carmilla does seem to be the expert on the matter, and Vaggie (an angel herself) straight didn't know angels could be harm (even though she is missing an eye and her wings lol) and it was a big discovery that angels could be killed.

I know it's somewhat inconsistent (even in the same episode and the following one lol). But at the end, I think it's the point.

This is why good writing and consistency is important because you get shit like this. Like the Hazbin verse is like Toon Force levels of inconsistency it's insane.

 

[SlendVeny]

This is why good writing and consistency is important because you get shit like this. Like the Hazbin verse is like Toon Force levels of inconsistency it's insane.

If you don't assume they're literally unable to be harmed without special magic weapons, it's not super inconsistent.

 

[LemonedEyes]

If you don't assume they're literally unable to be harmed without special magic, it's not super inconsistent.

I'm by what the show was trying to say. Angels are invulnerable and can only be harmed by Angelic stuff, which would explain why any Overlords besides Camellia didnt fight back for multiple years, but after Ep 8, and the Angels fearing of Hell overcoming them, I feel like their Invulnerability is more of a durability thing, if not doesn't even exist atp.

 

[SlendVeny]

I'm by what the show was trying to say. Angels are invulnerable and can only be harmed by Angelic stuff, which would explain why any Overlords besides Camellia didnt fight back for multiple years, but after Ep 8, and the Angels fearing of Hell overcoming them, I feel like their Invulnerability is more of a durability thing, if not doesn't even exist atp.

It's like Superman. He's not invulnerable if you're stronger.

 

[Zabazab]

I agree with removing Type 5, nothing in the show is ever implied to be deathless.

I disagree with removing Invulnerability. Episode 7 is just too heavy on the "Yeah angels are indestructable." Even the princess of hell and the exterminators genuinely thought they couldn't be hurt prior. The only real antifeat is Lute seemingly getting battle damage from non-angelic sources while fighting another angel.

If some rubble wounding them was normal, overlords certainly wouldn't be under the impression that they're invincible.

 

[LemonedEyes]

I disagree with removing Invulnerability. Episode 7 is just too heavy on the "Yeah angels are indestructable." Even the princess of hell and the exterminators genuinely thought they couldn't be hurt prior. The only real antifeat is Lute seemingly getting battle damage from non-angelic sources while fighting another angel.

If some rubble wounding them was normal, overlords certainly wouldn't be under the impression that they're invincible.

Selective Invulnerability (They are invulnerable whenever they feel like it.)

 

[Phsccarvalho]

The only real antifeat is

Cherubs too.

 

[Zabazab]

Cherubs too.

I thought it only applied to exterminators? Like, the reason they were created as indestructable was to make the exterminations easy for them. Remove it from the cherubs either way then.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Selective Invulnerability (They are invulnerable whenever they feel like it.)

whenever plot feels like it*

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I thought it only applied to exterminators? Like, the reason they were created as indestructable was to make the exterminations easy for them. Remove it from the cherubs either way then.

It is currently accepted on the wiki that the thing applies to angels in general. So the cherub thing can be used until someone wants to make a crt.