Hax Layer Evaluation Thread

[Jozaysmith?]

@Eseseso dont think we have, but then again I doubt he has it due to the verse wide nuke that happened..

Well he doesn't interact with concepts that are independent of reality, so not really.

It's an odd one, she said hest to powerful to turn into a goat which would imply it's strength based and not real resistance but mentioned they'd need something more powerful so it might qualify indicating different potency so it's probably good.

Please can you look into this

Rimuru tempest has a barrier that have Resistance to most things or specific ailments, this barrier that reached the ultimate level has the power to repel Velgrynd heat attack, Velgrynd then made a heat attack to could counter everyone resistances, but he still blocked it

Conclusion: breaking through a barrier is x-number of layer resistance negation, uriel is 2×x-heat and status ailments Resistance, Velgrynd can negate 2×x layers
Rimuru later got 3×x layers of resistance

The first scan talks about how he can create multiple layers of barriers with each having resistance to one thing or the other, Like Milim Barrier which is unaffected by Mind manipulation, uriel is an ultimate, which probably doubled the effect, creating absolute defense to anything, as we saw how it repelled all of Velgrynd attacks, but she made an attack that would ignore that but made another defense that blocked that

 

[Theglassman12]

That looks to be at best 1 layer of hax, but it looks a bit iffy since it talks about it in an AP aspect more than a “I affect people with natural resistances” type situation with the barriers

 

[Jozaysmith?]

That looks to be at best 1 layer of hax, but it looks a bit iffy since it talks about it in an AP aspect more than a “I affect people with natural resistances” type situation with the barriers

Here it said rimuru have complete resistance to thermal attacks, and i talked on how the barrier resistance was specific on negating or repelling her thermal attack, additionally she made another attack that was meant to ignore that but he made another barrier that far surpassed that of the uriel defense

 

[Theglassman12]

Yeah I’m not seeing what you’re saying in the second scan at all, let alone where this proves layered hax

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Here it said rimuru have complete resistance to thermal attacks, and i talked on how the barrier resistance was specific on negating or repelling her thermal attack, additionally she made another attack that was meant to ignore that but he made another barrier that far surpassed that of the uriel defense

Thermal attack? Like, temperature? As far as I know, these types of skills don't work in "layers"

Moreover, layering should not be thought of as applying to abilities which intuitively can be overcome with magnitude, such as heat resistance or analytical prediction. For instance, it is not layered fire manipulation to burn someone with a heat source hotter than they can withstand.

.

What do you think about this?

 

[Theglassman12]

I already said I’m still iffy on this since this looks more AP oriented than layered hax oriented.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

I already said I’m still iffy on this since this looks more AP oriented than layered hax oriented.

Then the first on the barriers with resistance in layers?

 

[Theglassman12]

That isn’t enough for layers. For layers to be legit you need to resist an ability that affected someone with established resistance in the first place, having numerous barriers which have different resistances isn’t enough.

 

[Robo432343]

i think this blog explains how characters from anima beyond fantasy have like 50+ layers

The Power of the Gnosis

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Theglassman12]

The precognition scan helps with how Gnosis can make abilities on lower gnosis not work, it can work for layers.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

would these scans support layered hax?
Beings with higher Gnosis are repeatedly stated to be able to ignore the resistances of those at lower levels. Many of the abilities granted by Gnosis can be resisted or said resistances ignored depending on one's level of Gnosis.

none of your scans are working and loading

 

[Theglassman12]

Looks fine to me.

 

[Antoniofer]

I have to add, that independently of the difference in Gnosis, the individual with greater Gnosis is susceptible to be affected by status alignments (if any) from other beings of inferior Gnosis, and that beings of inferior Gnosis still have the right to resist potential status alignments from individuals of superior Gnosis (if any). For example, Someone of Gnosis 35 may hurt and an Agni with the Body of Fire spell, but the elemental still have the right to roll for resistance, and may add of bonus to the roll based on it's protection against fire (Armot Type). The other form of resistance is a different mechanic.

Furthermore, not sure where the numerical value of 50+ layers is coming from? I believe it comes Gnosis varying from 0 to 50, but I find that kind of arbitrary. For instance, the level rises/decreases in multiple of 5, so Gnostic values like 17 or 29 do not exists; If any, the layer should be 50/5, or 10. But honestly, I find the concept of Gnosis difficult to translate to cross-versing.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Antoniofer Hmmm, so it's not as clear cut as just "A higher Gnosis means you can resist whatever the lower Gnosis users throw at you"? By status alignments I assume you're referring to the typical Poison, Paralysis, etc. effects you see in every RPG ever? If it's not connected to Gnosis and tackles something different then the layered hax can be focused predominantly on Gnosis focused abilities, if it is then it might not count.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

@Antoniofer Hmmm, so it's not as clear cut as just "A higher Gnosis means you can resist whatever the lower Gnosis users throw at you"? By status alignments I assume you're referring to the typical Poison, Paralysis, etc. effects you see in every RPG ever? If it's not connected to Gnosis and tackles something different then the layered hax can be focused predominantly on Gnosis focused abilities, if it is then it might not count.

Back again for another Appeal
Veldora aura, causes the death of people, inducing death into them, they are quite a few numbers of people who resist this, but then
Attacking the spiritual body is one way to cause instant death, since it forms the life force of them, anyway this can also be resisted by some
Mariabell ability is then one that literally able to work on those who resist Veldora aura
They are now quite a number of people who can resist that as well
Which are likes of rimuru and so

How many layers is this?

 

[XDragnoir]

For example, Someone of Gnosis 35 may hurt and an Agni with the Body of Fire spell, but the elemental still have the right to roll for resistance, and may add of bonus to the roll based on it's protection against fire (Armot Type). The other form of resistance is a different mechanic.

Question, is that also a thing in lore or is that purely game mechanics?

 

[Antoniofer]

Because Gnosis is a term that it not used in lore (in the sense that epople from the verse do not use the word, just as Nephilim), every time it is mentioned is generally refering to ruling, as you could see in the links above. Beyond the general cases, such bypassing elemental resistance/immunity, being capable to command/bind/summon/banish creatures otherwise not possible due their nature (like being undead), precognition being not as effective, not as affected by time/reality/causality altering effects, there's nothing that suggests that individuals with higher Gnosis will be immune to status altering effects from individuals of inferior Gnosis. There may be other effects, but pick those with a grain of salt: they may be exception to the rule.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Antoniofer yeah this sounds like any ability tied to Gnosis would have layers but the rest don’t count.

@Jozaysmith? That second scan barely has anything to do with death hax, just that destroying the soul can kill, also I don’t see any scans about characters resisting the death aura so you need to bring more than that.

 

[Antoniofer]

If you want analyse ABF's levels of resistances, one would need to pay attention to their Resistance Values (they work just as DnD's saving throws); naturally, this vary depending of the creature, as not every one of them have the same Resistance Value. Note that Summoning abilities in some form bypasses resistances (except by special bonuses), as those abilities do not interact with Resistances (in other words, the affected entity do not have the right for a resistance check); however, if the summoner can affect them or not depends of its skill and the overall power of the creature (failing at summoning can also bring disastrous consequences).

 

[Antoniofer]

This is not the thread for that. For such questions better go to the respective discussion thread or ask someone knowledgeable via

 

[Dragonite007]

Would Dimensional Predator qualify?

He can apply the Countinous DMG debuff in the monsters with the Immunity Buff, that makes they immune to debuffs

 

[CodeCCLL]

Back again for another Appeal
Veldora aura, causes the death of people, inducing death into them, they are quite a few numbers of people who resist this, but then
Attacking the spiritual body is one way to cause instant death, since it forms the life force of them, anyway this can also be resisted by some
Mariabell ability is then one that literally able to work on those who resist Veldora aura
They are now quite a number of people who can resist that as well
Which are likes of rimuru and so

How many layers is this?

Instead of clogging up this thread every time with questions like "Is this valid to layers?", "So there are layers here?", wouldn't it make more sense for you to make an effort to understand how the layers of hax work and prepare a comprehensive blog with all the layered abilities and resistances that you think are present in the verse and share it here for staff evulation when you have completed it?

 

[Planck69]

@Theglassman12

Desolate Era had its layers accepted here. One layer per cultivation realm or heartforce level. Applies to mind/soul/memory illusion up until Celestial Immortals. Applies to everything from that point and beyond.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Okay so I got more potential 40k layers. To start off:

• 1 Layer Soul Manipulation (Horus Lupercal): Horus obliterated Sanguinius' soul
  • Sanguinius has been shown to be able to be able to tank hits from Bloodthirster weapons which are comparable to other Khornate weapons which tear souls out of whomever it cuts.
  • Primarchs can also resist being attacked on a spiritual level
  • He also pierced the Emperor's soul who naturally resists soul manip thanks to psykers naturally resisting their own powers and soul manip being a basic psychic power (Stigmatize)
• 1 Layer Soul Manip (The Emperor): Tore Horus' soul in two
  • Horus, like the other Primarchs, can resist being attacked on a spiritual level

 

[Theglassman12]

@Planck69 @AbaddonTheDisappointment both look good to me.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

 

[Theglassman12]

Alright, gonna get a Castlevania layers out of the way here.

Time manipulation:

So for starters we have the most basic of creatures or chaos which are conceptually removed from time itself on top of being able to move in the Abyss easily where time has stopped completely. The Mage innocent devils can stop time on these guys easily. Trevor Belmont in particular can break out of the timestop with no effort, likely with his own time stop with the stopwatch. Belmonts and Nathan Graves can also utilizes item crashes which are mega amped versions of the sub weapons they use, the stopwatch in particular can quadruple in potency with this, and boss characters like Death and Dracula are constantly unfazed by these abilities all the time. Lastly there’s Aeon, a time watcher who’s capable of controlling and stopping time on anyone in the cast, Death and Dracula included.

So Chaos Creatures (baseline) << innocent devils (1 layer) << Belmonts timestop (5 layers) << Time watcher (6 layers)

Dracula’s Magic

So Dracula’s Magic by its mere existence is capable of inflicting numerous effects onto one person, and any creature of chaos worth a damn is capable of resisting the effects of the castle easily. Magnus was able to affect Alucard with his amped version of Dracula’s magic despite the latter’s resistance in events prior to Dracula’s Curse, fast forward, he’s able to fight off these effects better than before. On top of this being tied to one’s strength of soul as stated with Magnus, which has its own UES with magic which can be read here. So layered hax with this here too.

Sealing and Power Nullification:

One other thing here; albeit much easier to explain. Soma and Yoko have access to seals to seal away and nullify the enemies, which there are 5 in total, each stronger than the last on top of some of the entrances to these bosses can’t be opened with the weaker seal spell. So basically 4-5 layers with this.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Alright, gonna get a Castlevania layers out of the way here.

Time manipulation:

So for starters we have the most basic of creatures or chaos which are conceptually removed from time itself on top of being able to move in the Abyss easily where time has stopped completely. The Mage innocent devils can stop time on these guys easily. Trevor Belmont in particular can break out of the timestop with no effort, likely with his own time stop with the stopwatch. Belmonts and Nathan Graves can also utilizes item crashes which are mega amped versions of the sub weapons they use, the stopwatch in particular can quadruple in potency with this, and boss characters like Death and Dracula are constantly unfazed by these abilities all the time. Lastly there’s Aeon, a time watcher who’s capable of controlling and stopping time on anyone in the cast, Death and Dracula included.

So Chaos Creatures (baseline) << innocent devils (1 layer) << Belmonts timestop (5 layers) << Time watcher (6 layers)

If it's just multiplying the potency of the time stop, then it'd go against this stipulation in the hax layer rules:

An ability becoming stronger does not automatically mean it is layered unless it is shown to overcome a resistance.

Aside from that, everything looks good. Belmont time hax should be 2 layers, and Aeon gets 3 layers.

Dracula’s Magic

So Dracula’s Magic by its mere existence is capable of inflicting numerous effects onto one person, and any creature of chaos worth a damn is capable of resisting the effects of the castle easily. Magnus was able to affect Alucard with his amped version of Dracula’s magic despite the latter’s resistance in events prior to Dracula’s Curse, fast forward, he’s able to fight off these effects better than before. On top of this being tied to one’s strength of soul as stated with Magnus, which has its own UES with magic which can be read here. So layered hax with this here too.

If it's an amplified version of Drac's magic, wouldn't it only be scalable to that specific amp? Also, small problem with the claim that Alucard grew to resist it better than before; The part where he struggles for a bit comes 5 whole minutes before he succumbs instantly. So uh, I wouldn't really use that for layering.

Sealing and Power Nullification:

One other thing here; albeit much easier to explain. Soma and Yoko have access to seals to seal away and nullify the enemies, which there are 5 in total, each stronger than the last on top of some of the entrances to these bosses can’t be opened with the weaker seal spell. So basically 4-5 layers with this.

This looks fine.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara The stop watch item crash helps with freezing enemies that normally can’t be stopped by the normal stop watch, so it’s more than just getting stronger, it can by default affect those with resistances with the normal stop watch.

Alucard was literally controlled in an instant in the past, and much later down the timeline he fought off Magnus’ control easily. Also the amp is tied to one’s magic, and Magic in Castlevania has its own UES built around it with how one grows stronger with the more Magic one has so it’s not exclusively to just that one amp.

 

[XDragnoir]

The stop watch item crash helps with freezing enemies that normally can’t be stopped by the normal stop watch, so it’s more than just getting stronger, it can by default affect those with resistances with the normal stop watch.

IMO, just because there are, visually speaking, 4 stopwatchs or whatever doesn't make that 4 extra layers unless each watch has proof of being a different layer (their "sum" being a higher layer than individual ones doesn't imply the 2nd is higher than the 1st, the 3rd than the 2nd, etc).

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Alucard was literally controlled in an instant in the past, and much later down the timeline he fought off Magnus’ control easily.

But... that's part 3/7 of the radio drama, when the previous scans you linked came from part 5/7. So, are those scenes flashbacks? Is there some weird time fuckery going on? If not, then this entire scene just reads as nonsensical to me.

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara The stop watch item crash helps with freezing enemies that normally can’t be stopped by the normal stop watch, so it’s more than just getting stronger, it can by default affect those with resistances with the normal stop watch.

Do you have an example? Also, that'd only be one more layer at best, unless each increase in potency can bypass resistances (eg; an enemy resists a time stop with double potency, which is overcome by triple potency, which is resisted by another enemy, and their resistance is overcome by quadruple potency).

Also the amp is tied to one’s magic, and Magic in Castlevania has its own UES built around it with how one grows stronger with the more Magic one has so it’s not exclusively to just that one amp.

Yeah, but we've established plenty of times now that just getting stronger isn't a huge deal. It needs to have feats of bypassing resistance.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara it’s a flashback with 5/7, there’s two separate scenes that’s happening in that video, one of the present day where Alucard is fighting off the effects of Magnus’ spell and the other is literally before Dracula’s Curse happens when Alucard was forced to bite Lyumill and he couldn’t fight back at all, which is over several hundred years prior.

It’s the more elite enemies in the game that are unfazed by the stopwatch normally, kinda hard to find clips since hardly anyone uses the stopwatch on YouTube for these games, let alone the item crash since hydro storm be broke AF.

And I literally just provided evidence with Magnus affecting Alucard and bypassing his resistance with his amped magic.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara it’s a flashback with 5/7, there’s two separate scenes that’s happening in that video, one of the present day where Alucard is fighting off the effects of Magnus’ spell and the other is literally before Dracula’s Curse happens when Alucard was forced to bite Lyumill and he couldn’t fight back at all, which is over several hundred years prior.

Ah, yeah if it's a flashback then that works. However, idk if I'd call it a full on resistance since he's still kinda getting ****** over.

It’s the more elite enemies in the game that are unfazed by the stopwatch normally, kinda hard to find clips since hardly anyone uses the stopwatch on YouTube for these games, let alone the item crash since hydro storm be broke AF.

That's fine, would still only be a single extra layer though.

And I literally just provided evidence with Magnus affecting Alucard and bypassing his resistance with his amped magic.

One layer for the amped magic is fine, but my concern is with who else you'll be scaling this to, if anyone. If it's just Magnus, then I've got no problems with it.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara in the 3/7 clip he flat out breaks out of it, something Magnus comments on, and in the 5/7 clip he’s just throwing in much more than normal to try and affect him.

Fine by me.

You do realize that we’ve got Ergenverse accepted with their layers based on a general description on how cultivation being stronger or amped can affect one with resistance right? Why would it only be applied to Magnus and not anyone else that’s capable of doing similar if not better feats?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

You do realize that we’ve got Ergenverse accepted with their layers based on a general description on how cultivation being stronger or amped can affect one with resistance right? Why would it only be applied to Magnus and not anyone else that’s capable of doing similar if not better feats?

I mean, he's using an amplified version of Dracula's magic. So I would assume that Dracula himself has no reason to scale, right?

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara in the 3/7 clip he flat out breaks out of it, something Magnus comments on, and in the 5/7 clip he’s just throwing in much more than normal to try and affect him.

Yeah, that's fine then.

 

[Theglassman12]

He’s amping Dracula’s magic himself, Dracula having the abilities and skills of any and all creatures of the night via Power of Dominance would by default let him scale to what Magnus can do at bare minimum.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

He’s amping Dracula’s magic himself, Dracula having the abilities and skills of any and all creatures of the night via Power of Dominance would by default let him scale to what Magnus can do at bare minimum.

See, this is what I was worried about. You're scaling Dracula to an amped version of his own magic, which is circular scaling. Via Power of Dominance, he could potentially amp his magic to those levels, but considering he never does so despite that being really fucking useful when fighting guys who resist his entire arsenal, I don't think this line of logic works.

 

[Theglassman12]

You do realize his power grows stronger every single time he comes back to life right? Thats already accepted on the page and the Belmonts just get stronger and stronger as the generations go down, so there’s already an explanation to begin with.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

You do realize his power grows stronger every single time he comes back to life right? Thats already accepted on the page and the Belmonts just get stronger and stronger as the generations go down, so there’s already an explanation to begin with.

Right, but do those strength increases line up with the amped version of his magic that Magnus uses? If he's superior to Magnus at some point later down the line, then I suppose it's fine.

 

[Theglassman12]

He surpasses basically any and all of them by the time 1999 rolls around, the only thing that remotely eclipses Dracula in terms of higher forms of power at that point is Chaos itself, the literal source of his power.