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Guilty Gear CRT

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Jasonsith

Jasonsith

VS Battles
Calculation Group
Translation Helper
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Disclaimer
This is a thread for changing contents for the character at a page in the VS Battles Wiki site. No defaming or discrimination is involved. At all.



Executive summary:
Make changes on or redraft the gender of Bridget (Guilty Gear) at our site.



Before anyone yells at me anything, let me have a quick go-through of why I make such a proposal

The background story of Bridget says: (From Guilty Gear Strive official website)

Bridget was born one of two twin sons of a multi-billionaire couple and was given only the best training and tutoring as a child. However, Bridget's upbringing was what one would expect for a daughter of a high-society family instead of a son.
There was a reason for this: Bridget's hometown had a superstitious belief that male twins brought misfortune. The townspeople were so embedded in this belief that they insisted the younger of any set of male twins be put to death or be exiled from the town upon birth. Unable to swallow either of the options, the twins' parents raised Bridget as a daughter.
While Bridget strove to put on a happy front, these efforts only seemed to cause Bridget's parents more pain. Bridget began to think that behaving like a man and bringing home a vast array of riches would prove that the superstitions were unfounded.
Although unsuccessful in capturing Dizzy for her bounty, Bridget showed talent as a bounty hunter and managed to bring home great wealth. This led to the village superstition fading, but it also left Bridget without a goal.
Bridget now works as a bounty hunter while searching for a purpose.
Click to expand...

The story background literally said that Bridget was biologically male at birth, but the family raised Bridget as a daughter because of some specific customs at the town Bridget's family lived in.

In addition, several of her interactions with the cast in previous games had interactions revolving around the matter. This includes the previous instances:

  • I-No's initial meeting with Bridget had her referred to Bridget as a girl, but then Bridget clarified on the matter.
  • Perhaps thanks to Jam's strong interest in young men, she identified Bridget was male immediately, despite her appearance.
  • Robo-Ky states in his victory quote against Bridget that she couldn't fool him due to possessing "X-ray eyes", but then retracts his statement.
  • Potemkin also discerned Bridget's birth gender immediately, using male pronouns when referencing Bridget upon their first meeting.

However, Bridget's arcade route at Guilty Gear Strive (copied from Guilty Gear wiki and excerpts uploaded by "Chaos Productions Inc" on Youtube) has marked a change of her gender at the end of the route:
Bridget's arcade route starts off as her encountering Goldlewis, deducing that Bridget has been locking away her true feelings for the sake of others. Bridget opens up that she thought that it would've been helpful to do so, but in reality it's been causing her strife. Goldlewis and Bridget then encounters Ky, with Bridget now stating that she is fearful that her decision could cause her lost as a result. Goldlewis and Ky comforts her, telling her to look positive on her future and that helping hands would always be there for her. Bridget then affirms herself that she will no longer lie to herself, thanking both Goldlewis and Ky for their help.
At one encounter with Goldlewis, Goldlewis called Bridget a girl, then Bridget immediately corrected that Bridget was a boy, and the girl's clothes are "a long story".
Goldlewis's final interaction with Bridget in the arcade route had him calling Bridget a cowgirl at first, but then changed it to cowboy. Bridget said that being referred to as a cowgirl was fine now given how she identifies herself currently.
Click to expand...

Which means that Bridget identified in front of Goldlewis and Ky Kiske that she identified herself as a girl at the end of the arcade route story of Bridget. And that one chapter is given for such a gender identification announcement.



Proposal: Change the Gender column of Bridget to one of the follows:

(a) Male since birth; identified as female (after the events at Guilty Gear Strive)
(b) Female (identified as such after the events at Guilty Gear Strive); male since birth
(c) Female, male prior to Guilty Gear Strive
(d) Female (Male prior to Guilty Gear Strive)

Any other opinion is welcome.
But remember:
1. The proposed change is subject to examination at the Japanese transcripts and Japanese clips.
2. Observe any rule applicable on this site and in the real world you are in, and be focused on the context.

Poll:
(a):
(b):
(c):
(d):
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I agreed to another CRT that's ongoing about this so needless to say I agree here
 
Amelia_Lonelyheart said:
Just change her gender to female, it's not that complicated my god
Click to expand...
That's what I said in the other thread though there was apparently some controversy over it that made its way to rule violations for people behavior im assuming so I'm fine with the CRT
 
Honestly, it's pretty complicated. Bridget is trans in other localizations, but not only does the Japanese version of his bio still refer to him as a guy, but straight up even says that he stopped wanting to be a woman and went back to being a man, so it's up to which localization we use I guess.
 
Shmooply said:
but not only does the Japanese version of his bio still refer to him as a guy, but straight up even says that he stopped wanting to be a woman and went back to being a man, so it's up to which localization we use I guess.
Click to expand...
Japanese version should have priority. If what you said is true, then I agree to referring to Bridget as a guy.
 
Shmooply said:
Honestly, it's pretty complicated. Bridget is trans in other localizations, but not only does the Japanese version of his bio still refer to him as a guy, but straight up even says that he stopped wanting to be a woman and went back to being a man, so it's up to which localization we use I guess.
Click to expand...
IIRC the Japanese version of Strive also confirms her as trans, I'll look for the original post.
 
Yeah I don't think the gender at birth part is needed but changing it to female is simply the best and simplest thing to do
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
IIRC the Japanese version of Strive also confirms her as trans, I'll look for the original post.
Click to expand...
Weird. When I put Bridget's bio from the game's site into DeepL, this is the result I got.
Bridget was born into a wealthy family and was raised as a gifted young lady with the utmost civility. In the village, where the superstition that "twin boys bring misfortune to the land" is believed, it was a rule that twin brothers were to be either terminated or given to foster children. However, her parents, who felt sorry for her situation, hid her gender and raised her as a girl.

Bridget always tried to act cheerful to avoid worrying her parents, but she realized that the more she insisted on being happy, the more her parents felt hurt. She came to the conclusion that the fundamental solution was that she must live as a man and bring wealth to the village that would overturn the superstitions. Although he was unable to catch the bounty hunter "Dizzy," his talent as a bounty hunter blossomed, and he was able to send a huge amount of money back to the village. As a result, the superstition in the village disappeared, but at the same time, he lost his own goal. He is now on a journey to find what he wants to do while continuing as a bounty hunter.

I don't really care much about whatever option we choose, though, just go with whatever.
 
Well, this is different from the case for Testament, where the Arc System Works staff identified Testament were "originally envisioned as an androgynous (両性, ryōsei) character expressing both genders, but that in Strive they have opted to make them agender".

A view on the overall stories within Guilty Gear did suggest that Bridget was (a) born as a biological male, (b) raised as a female due to some very specific customs at the town Bridget's family lived in, and (c) identified as male at the moment Bridget encountered the casts of Guilty Gear. Even at early parts of the story Bridget still identifies self as a male, until the encounter with Ky and Goldlewis when she made her identity change public.

The differences in gender re-identification are literally part of the stories.

Oh, we have had previous examples where gender changes are included. So if a character identifies oneself as one gender at a certain point and then changed at a specific arc, it is important to show such a change. There is nothing to be shameful about.
 
Shmooply said:
Weird. When I put Bridget's bio from the game's site into DeepL, this is the result I got.
Bridget was born into a wealthy family and was raised as a gifted young lady with the utmost civility. In the village, where the superstition that "twin boys bring misfortune to the land" is believed, it was a rule that twin brothers were to be either terminated or given to foster children. However, her parents, who felt sorry for her situation, hid her gender and raised her as a girl.

Bridget always tried to act cheerful to avoid worrying her parents, but she realized that the more she insisted on being happy, the more her parents felt hurt. She came to the conclusion that the fundamental solution was that she must live as a man and bring wealth to the village that would overturn the superstitions. Although he was unable to catch the bounty hunter "Dizzy," his talent as a bounty hunter blossomed, and he was able to send a huge amount of money back to the village. As a result, the superstition in the village disappeared, but at the same time, he lost his own goal. He is now on a journey to find what he wants to do while continuing as a bounty hunter.

I don't really care much about whatever option we choose, though, just go with whatever.
Click to expand...
Pronouns in Japanese generally don't work well with machine translations, I can't tell you how many times I see machine translated Touhou stuff that uses masculine pronouns. I get stuff like "Mr. Keine" all the time, so I don't think we can rely on machine translation here.
 
Jasonsith said:
Oh, we have had previous examples where gender changes are included. So if a character identifies oneself as one gender at a certain point and then changed at a specific arc, it is important to show such a change. There is nothing to be shameful about.
Click to expand...
This is true, though my preferred method of indexing this would be just saying they're trans. For example, using "Transgender Female" over "Female, formerly Male". IIRC we don't allow this, which is stupid, but whatever.
 
Shmooply said:
Weird. When I put Bridget's bio from the game's site into DeepL, this is the result I got.
Bridget was born into a wealthy family and was raised as a gifted young lady with the utmost civility. In the village, where the superstition that "twin boys bring misfortune to the land" is believed, it was a rule that twin brothers were to be either terminated or given to foster children. However, her parents, who felt sorry for her situation, hid her gender and raised her as a girl.

Bridget always tried to act cheerful to avoid worrying her parents, but she realized that the more she insisted on being happy, the more her parents felt hurt. She came to the conclusion that the fundamental solution was that she must live as a man and bring wealth to the village that would overturn the superstitions. Although he was unable to catch the bounty hunter "Dizzy," his talent as a bounty hunter blossomed, and he was able to send a huge amount of money back to the village. As a result, the superstition in the village disappeared, but at the same time, he lost his own goal. He is now on a journey to find what he wants to do while continuing as a bounty hunter.

I don't really care much about whatever option we choose, though, just go with whatever.
Click to expand...
the bios offsite at least in english avoided using pronouns, i think it was just to avoid spoiling her arc
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:


Yeah it's in the Japanese version, this shouldn't really be an argument.
Click to expand...

Thanks. So the gender re-identification event is also included in the Japanese part. Affirming that the gender change is a change during the end of her story arc of GGST.

SaberPhantasy9 said:
the bios offsite at least in english avoided using pronouns, i think it was just to avoid spoiling her arc
Click to expand...
You mean the bios in the official website of GGST right?

Well the official website does refrain from using pronouns for her.

Oh it is also part of the story that Bridget identified herself as a male and was identified as such by the closer people or people good at discerning genders and gender characteristics prior to the events at Strive. The people who played the GG games prior to Strive will get confused.

Which is why I try to be faithful to her whole story and use what is currently accepted in our site to properly identify her.

For the options, personally I would see option b as a better representation of her current identified gender.
 
Option B is a more direct representation of her being transgender, so in lieu of being able to just list her as transgender, I guess I'll go with that.

Granted, idk why we can't just... say she's trans and leave it at that.
 
I was under the impression that we’d list cases like this as “Female (assigned male at birth)”, judging by how Yamato’s page does it, but if that’s not the case, then we should just list the gender as Female.
 
LordTracer said:
I was under the impression that we’d list cases like this as “Female (assigned male at birth)”, judging by how Yamato’s page does it, but if that’s not the case, then we should just list the gender as Female.
Click to expand...
Female (assigned male at birth)

... I can go with that.

Just... should we just say "Female (male at birth)" since the organ is already there?
(but then the One Piece character did show such format for a gender change and I do not want to change it)
(it may get into deeper issues but i want to stick to the character unless being invited at another thread)



Also, things get complicated as Bridget did identified herself as male during earlier arcs and be identified such, until she declared a change in gender at the end of her arcade route. Therefore it is part of the history that the change needs to be specified (unlike other cases where one character is simply "ambiguous" or has already been declared by an author a such).
 
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I don't think we have a standard for this lmao, trans characters like Miko still use "female, formerly male". Maybe a formal rule is needed on how to list the gender of transgender characters? Idk.
 
We had a thread on this specific issue. The conclusion was to use preferred gender
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I don't think we have a standard for this lmao, trans characters like Miko still use "female, formerly male". Maybe a formal rule is needed on how to list the gender of transgender characters? Idk.
Click to expand...
Thanks.

I have updated the options.

Feel free to vote for whichever option you see fit. I am going to bed now since it is already past midnight in my country.
 
Why exactly do we need to mention the gender assigned at birth? She’s a girl, there’s not really any greater intricacies to that fact, nor is her assigned at birth gender accurate to her gender

C or D work a little better but they still don’t sit fully right with me, could you imagine if under “Name” we had (Name, [Insert Deadname] prior to whatever game) for a similar case? Mentioning previous assigned or identified genders isn’t accurate to the current status of the character, and dilutes the significance of their actual gender and respecting it.

For the record, just “Female” is what I think works best
 
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