Guilty Gear CRT

[Pikaman]

whats is the logic for this alert lmao

It reads like a trigger warning for LGBTQIA+ people lmao, I’m gonna assume that was not the intention because uh

 

[DontTalkDT]

Why exactly do we need to mention the gender assigned at birth? She’s a girl, there’s not really any greater intricacies to that fact, nor is her assigned at birth gender accurate to her gender

It might be relevant for our purposes since some characters have supernatural abilities that differentiate in effect based on biological sex and some characters that likely change their in-character behaviour based on it (if they have knowledge on it).

 

[Abstractions]

whats is the logic for this alert lmao

It's a warning to tell you that I am coming, and you should all be afraid.

Now that it's out of my system though, let's all be adults and ignore how silly it may be and focus on the content of the thread. Thank you.

 

[Dalesean027]

But I mean this isn't like some supernatural or sci-fi robot gender preference thing she simply identifies as a woman so why not just list it simply as that

 

[Pikaman]

It might be relevant for our purposes since some characters have supernatural abilities that differentiate in effect based on biological sex and some characters that likely change their in-character behaviour based on it (if they have knowledge on it).

I can get the former, but I doubt there’s any more than an extremely small handful of characters, if any on the wiki that possess the traits of both being trans and having a power that works specifically on biological sex, and even then just put a note explaining why you are using whatever version of the power at the bottom of the page, the gender section isn’t the place to make those kind of clarifications

for the second, just... list the appropriate/current behaviours? If they have different keys for different time periods which themselves have different genders, just split standard tactics into keys

 

[Andytrenom]

I think he means the trans person's opponent may have a power that selectively works according to biological sex

 

[Pikaman]

I can get the former, but I doubt there’s any more than an extremely small handful of characters, if any on the wiki that possess the traits of both being trans and having a power that works specifically on biological sex, and even then just put a note explaining why you are using whatever version of the power at the bottom of the page, the gender section isn’t the place to make those kind of clarifications

for the second, just... list the appropriate/current behaviours? If they have different keys for different time periods which themselves have different genders, just split standard tactics into keys

These both seem specific situations which between them can probably not have any more than 10 characters on the whole wiki which apply to them, and Bridget is not part of that group afaik. I cannot think of any situation where listing the assigned at birth gender is relevant to the listing of their current gender, and even delving into extremely specific circumstances better options present themselves

 

[DontTalkDT]

I can get the former, but I doubt there’s any more than an extremely small handful of characters, if any on the wiki that possess the traits of both being trans and having a power that works specifically on biological sex, and even then just put a note explaining why you are using whatever version of the power at the bottom of the page, the gender section isn’t the place to make those kind of clarifications

Oh, it's not necessarily that they themselves have such powers. To give an example: The Unexplored Summon has an ability which mind controls only women (and I strongly assume that it targets based on biology). You see how it might get confusing when the page just says female.

 

[Pikaman]

I think he means the trans person's opponent may have a power that selectively works according to biological sex

Then just explain it in the match, its not like her being trans isn’t already present on her profile, it ends with “her true identity as a woman” after discussing how her entire early backstory revolves around the fact she was AMAB

 

[DontTalkDT]

Then just explain it in the match, its not like her being trans isn’t already present on her profile, it ends with “her true identity as a woman” after discussing how her entire early backstory revolves around the fact she was AMAB

I guess explaining it is an option as well. Although I personally don't see the harm in just listing both either. But you do you.

 

[Andytrenom]

Oh, it's not necessarily that they themselves have such powers. To give an example: The Unexplored Summon has an ability which mind controls only women (and I strongly assume that it targets based on biology). You see how it might get confusing when the page just says female.

I made a similar argument a while ago. The conclusion was that these abilities are too few and far between to warrant the standard always being announcing someone's transness

 

[Pikaman]

I guess explaining it is an option as well. Although I personally don't see the harm in just listing both either. But you do you.

My point was both that explaining this was easier, AND that it is already made apparent in her description she’s trans, so a very basic read of her profile would answer any questions about abilities that only work on the basis of assigned at birth gender/biological sex

 

[Bernkastelll]

ffs the thread shouldnt be too long, just put whatever they want to be identified

 

[MrKerf]

As we are indexing wiki, indexing everything is our task. "Female, formerly Male" should be a way to go. And obviously it should be included in Gender section, just like we always do.

 

[SaberPhantasy9]

My point was both that explaining this was easier, AND that it is already made apparent in her description she’s trans, so a very basic read of her profile would answer any questions about abilities that only work on the basis of assigned at birth gender/biological sex

i agree with this, just put her transition as part of her backstory

 

[Pikaman]

As we are indexing wiki, indexing everything is our task. "Female, formerly Male" should be a way to go. And obviously it should be included in Gender section, just like we always do.

Exactly because we are an indexing wiki we have to uphold accuracy, “Male” has no place anywhere near a statement about Bridget’s gender. She’s a woman and we should list her as such

could you imagine if under “Name” we had (Name, [Insert Deadname] prior to whatever game) for a similar case? Mentioning previous assigned or identified genders isn’t accurate to the current status of the character, and dilutes the significance of their actual gender and respecting it.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

This Gender listing is alright, right?

Bridget (Guilty Gear)

Bridget was born in a village in England where the birth of twins of the same gender was considered bad luck, and one twin was traditionally sacrificed or exiled in that case. Her parents were unwilling to lose one of their children, and instead they decided to raise her as a girl so that they...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[MrKerf]

Exactly because we are an indexing wiki we have to uphold accuracy, “Male” has no place anywhere near a statement about Bridget’s gender. She’s a woman and we should list her as such

Listen, I am not Guilty Gear expert, but from wiki standpoint it makes no sense. The character doesn't have multiple keys to make it Male | Female like we would usually do with others (like when person becomes some cosmic thingy it goes Female | Inaplicable), so we have to do it in one line, simple as that.

And I think we actually list some previous names of characters, vaguely recalling some DC characters.

 

[Pikaman]

Listen, I am not Guilty Gear expert, but from wiki standpoint it makes no sense. The character doesn't have multiple keys to make it Male | Female like we would usually do with others (like when person becomes some cosmic thingy it goes Female | Inaplicable), so we have to do it in one line, simple as that

The gender assigned at birth is totally irrelevant to the question of what her gender is, she’s a woman, not a “woman but...”

Other profiles don’t follow your logic

I think I've gotten a couple of neato examples of trans characters that are just listed under their identity

Madeline

Birdo

Loki (MCU)

Lily Hoshikawa

so yeah I think using the gender she identifies as much like all of these examples I've listed would be ideal so just female. womannn. etc uvu

 

[Abstractions]

The character doesn't have multiple keys to make it Male | Female like we would usually do with others (like when person becomes some cosmic thingy it goes Female | Inaplicable), so we have to do it in one line, simple as that.

So Female, got it.

 

[Armorchompy]

just list her as female and don't be weird

who the **** kinda weirdo is going out of their way to put a character with a sex-specific power against a trans one anyway

 

[MrKerf]

The gender assigned at birth is totally irrelevant to the question of what her gender is, she’s a woman, not a “woman but...”

Other profiles don’t follow your logic

Couldn't care less about other profiles, I am commenting under this one.

We are indexing wiki. If there's a section, we should extensivly list relevant info, and I think this one is pretty relevant. Just like we don't write "Late teens" when we know exact age being 19, for example. This is just inaccurate info. Like here with gender. Or non-full info to be exact.
I can already hear counterargument being "Read the Summary" but the Summary is the Summary, and other sections are other sections.

 

[Pikaman]

This is just inaccurate info. Like here with gender. Or non-full info to be exact.

It is complete and in no way inaccurate info. Her gender is female. Done and dusted, that is the full statement

 

[MrKerf]

It is complete and in no way inaccurate info. Her gender is female. Done and dusted, that is the full statement

Is the profile for the character who appeared before Strive or just for Strive specific?

 

[Pikaman]

Is the profile for the character who appeared before Strive or just for Strive specific?

I have nothing to do with Guilty Gear, but I can be fairly certain it encompasses all of her appearances in the franchise

 

[Dust_Collector]

We did not 60+ replies for a character who straight up says "I'm a girl"

Just leave her gender as female it's not that hard

 

[MrKerf]

I have nothing to do with Guilty Gear, but I can be fairly certain it encompasses all of her appearances in the franchise

Than we have to include the info of her being Male in previous games, since the change happend only after Strive (or in Strive, don't know).

 

[Andytrenom]

Obsessing over a trans character's assigned gender and presenting it as an inseparable thing that has to be pointed out is I will just say, awful.

Being an indexing wiki does not mean we have to be so technical about someone 's gender identity.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah like, there's things more important than logging every snippet of information about a fictional character, even on a wiki dedicated to do that. Respecting the identities of real life people, for example, I think is a bit more important.

 

[MrKerf]

Obsessing over a trans character's assigned gender and presenting it as an inseparable thing that has to be pointed out is I will just say, awful.

Being an indexing wiki does not mean we have to be so technical about someone 's gender identity.

Its not like we randomly throw out info of character's items, for example, just because they never used it again. Injustice Batman's super pills, for example.

Respecting is one thing. We are indexing wiki. We are indexing fictional characters. We are listing accurate information. What do you find so wrong and offensive in "Female, previously Male"?

 

[Lilixa]

IMHO just female is fine.

 

[Armorchompy]

Its not like we randomly throw out info of character's items, for example, just because they never used it again. Injustice Batman's super pills, for example.

Respecting is one thing. We are indexing wiki. We are indexing fictional characters. We are listing accurate information. What do you find so wrong and offensive in "Female, previously Male"?

Injustice Batman's super pills are not a real world issue that many people have bigoted views on.

We have redacted information if it was deemed inappropriate: For example, a Berserk character who has Corruption by having non-consensual intercourse with another character has a very nondescript description for their power.

 

[Andytrenom]

"Female, previously Male"

Explaining why this wording is offensive is its own can of worms

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

As far as I'm concerned, there are two options:

1. List the gender as just Female.
2. Note how their gender changed, but do it in a more respectful manner. 'Transgender Female' is just as accurate and far more tasteful than 'Female, previously Male', which as Andytrenom pointed out, is kind of offensive in and of itself.

 

[MrKerf]

I don't see how it's offensive, and I guess no one will tell me. Fine.
Transgender Female than. Anything works as long as it is fully accurate and gives all relevant info.

 

[ImmortalDread]

As far as I'm concerned, there are two options:

1. List the gender as just Female.
2. Note how their gender changed, but do it in a more respectful manner. 'Transgender Female' is just as accurate and far more tasteful than 'Female, previously Male', which as Andytrenom pointed out, is kind of offensive in and of itself.

Option 1. I personally don't see Gender would matter in versus matches. Ya indexing is fine, but mostly, it does not need all those posts for a simple change.
Whether you are male or female or transgender, you will get stomped by Goku.
Also, the title is kinda dumb, I don't know what you meant by the alert. Are you warning us it is LGBT or what?

 

[Andytrenom]

The idea is that being trans is something you are born with. Internally a girl with a male body or vice versa. It's not a switch, you were always that gender you just didn't present that way before

Female, formerly male just has really bad implications

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't see how it's offensive, and I guess no one will tell me. Fine.

(I am cisgender though I have done some searching in regards to my identity so take what I say with a grain of salt, it's just what I've gathered)

Basically, you don't "become" transgender, it's a realization you have about yourself with time and enough self-searching. So the wording of "formerly Male" implies it's effectively "deciding" that you're trans at some point, or implying that trans people are only their gender after transitioning, while in reality a trans person is the gender they eventually learn to identify themselves as the day they're born.

 

[ImmortalDread]

The idea is that being trans is something you are born with. Internally a girl with a male body or vice versa. It's not a switch, you were always that gender you just didn't present that way before

Female, formerly male just has really bad implications

So option 1. I don't see any other point.

 

[Braking]

Bros just put "female" as her gender bruh

Yall making this thread unnecessarily long and complicated