Gravity Falls: Cosmology Revamp + Adding some stuff

[StrymULTRA]

The only thing that can imply that it's on a second-dimensional axis is the 4th dimension being directly responsible for time

About that, my short-ass memory forgor that IT'S ALREADY IN THE SECTION lol.

I may help with a brief summary

About this, as you've commented on the Hypertime thread, would the information presented in this section be enough to claim a 2nd higher temporal dimension?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

About that, my short-ass memory forgor that IT'S ALREADY IN THE SECTION lol.

About this, as you've commented on the Hypertime thread, would the information presented in this section be enough to claim a 2nd higher temporal dimension?

Looks good to me.

 

[StrymULTRA]

BTW while I bump, I realized that Bill and Time Baby should have a note about them having a higher degree of Immeasurable speed if the 2nd temporal dimension of the NR applies, as in the verse's context, a "timeline" is a Nightmare Realm, and they seem to treat the flow of time as the one of the NR rather than a singular dimension in the multiverse.

Dragon Ball Heroes does have a similar note, so Bill and Time Baby should too.

Shacktron just scales so it'd be redundant on it tbh

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

BTW while I bump, I realized that Bill and Time Baby should have a note about them having a higher degree of Immeasurable speed if the 2nd temporal dimension of the NR applies, as in the verse's context, a "timeline" is a Nightmare Realm, and they seem to treat the flow of time as the one of the NR rather than a singular dimension in the multiverse.

Dragon Ball Heroes does have a similar note, so Bill and Time Baby should too.

Shacktron just scales so it'd be redundant on it tbh

And Weirdmageddon Bill is blitz-level faster… absolute cinema.

 

[Reiner04]

• The main multiverse, despite still being 2-A, possibly High 1-C, has slighty more solid basis on the latter, due to these aliens being straight up being called 7-Dimensional, other than Bill also relating additional spatial dimensions to additional directions of movement, hinting more that said 11-D dimensions are inhabitable and not just compactified (prolly should become a "likely" now).
• There is more information about the Mindscape, due to it also housing ideas, which can also be immortalized humans who are remembered forever in the story of humanity due to their stories.
• There's not just a Nightmare Realm, but infinitely more of them as Hypertimelines, due to infinite variations of it existing, which are also called directly as timelines from both Bill and Time Baby. Due to the Nightmare Realm already using infinite universes, each being a different space-time continuum, the only logical conclusion is for each Nightmare Realm to also have a higher temporal dimension that encompasses all these space-times, making it not just a +1 compared to the multiverse, but actually a +2, hence each Nightmare Realm is a 1-C, possibly 1-B structure with 1 level of dimensionality higher (aka 6-D to 13-D). This is similar to how Kingdom Heart's Ocean Between had also a +2 compared to the cosmology, thus being a 6D structure (before being reduced to a +1 due to strictier standards regarding being bigger than Tier 2 structures while still having the Higher time dimension valid).
• Added more things that are relatively minor, like Theraprism or the Astral Plane, which are still minor compared to the whole thing, but worth to mention nontheless.

Just to make sure. These 4 things entirely accepted previously and do not require current staff acceptance? Like Nightmare Realm is accepted as hypertimeline? If not, which part of them has been already accepted specifically. Can u mark them out?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Just to make sure. These 4 things entirely accepted previously and do not require current staff acceptance? Like Nightmare Realm is accepted as hypertimeline? If not, which part of them has been already accepted specifically. Can u mark them out?

So:

• The 4D, possibly 11D multiverse with the NR being +1D was previously accepted and it's currently the tier of the cosmology. This thread adds another +1D to NR because the concept of Hypertime wasn't a thing in the verse until the Book of Bill.
• Mindscape stuff is just additional stuff given from the BoB

Meaning that only Hypertime and how the Dennis' world works are up to debate for cosmology stuff.

 

[Reiner04]

So:

• The 4D, possibly 11D multiverse with the NR being +1D was previously accepted and it's currently the tier of the cosmology. This thread adds another +1D to NR because the concept of Hypertime wasn't a thing in the verse until the Book of Bill.
• Mindscape stuff is just additional stuff given from the BoB

Meaning that only Hypertime and how the Dennis' world works are up to debate for cosmology stuff.

Uh I see. Are there statements/scans regarding additional time axis in the verse? If so, can u post or point out them in the blog?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Uh I see. Are there statements/scans regarding additional time axis in the verse? If so, can u post or point out them in the blog?

Right. So the whole explanation is this, and the TLDR is this:

• The Nightmare Realm is stated to be its own timeline despite containing infinite universes, each with its own unique flow of time and laws, and it's beyond the laws and physics of all the universes within it.
• There's just only one Bill Cipher per multiverse unlike other characters who have alternate versions in other universes. Yet when Bill uses his abilities to see the future, he can see "other timelines" where he sees other versions of himself doing the Weirdmageddon (which is a Multiversal-wide event).
• Gravity Falls' multiverse is already hinted to follow MWI (see the first section of the blog), yet Bill when he sees the other "timelines" he also sees other Bills, implying that the Nightmare Realm also it's own space-time continuum which branches like a normal timeline.
• The Nightmare Realm includes the "Fourth Dimension", which allows one to travel through universes when accessing it, and to see all the multiverse as strips of film.

All of this points that the Nightmare Realm is its own higher space-time continuum, because of it having its independent flow of time that is described as "lawless and without physics" compared to the universes within, other than being hinted to be its own timeline and having other infinite versions of itself in a MWI way.

 

[Reiner04]

Right. So the whole explanation is this, and the TLDR is this:

• The Nightmare Realm is stated to be its own timeline despite containing infinite universes, each with its own unique flow of time and laws, and it's beyond the laws and physics of all the universes within it.
• There's just only one Bill Cipher per multiverse unlike other characters who have alternate versions in other universes. Yet when Bill uses his abilities to see the future, he can see "other timelines" where he sees other versions of himself doing the Weirdmageddon (which is a Multiversal-wide event).
• Gravity Falls' multiverse is already hinted to follow MWI (see the first section of the blog), yet Bill when he sees the other "timelines" he also sees other Bills, implying that the Nightmare Realm also it's own space-time continuum which branches like a normal timeline.
• The Nightmare Realm includes the "Fourth Dimension", which allows one to travel through universes when accessing it, and to see all the multiverse as strips of film.

All of this points that the Nightmare Realm is its own higher space-time continuum, because of it having its independent flow of time that is described as "lawless and without physics" compared to the universes within, other than being hinted to be its own timeline and having other infinite versions of itself in a MWI way.

Unique flow of time and containing infinite timelines insides itself as subtimlines is not enough afaik... they must be independent of each other entirely and should have their multiversal past version across different points in the hypertimeline @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 what do u think?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Unique flow of time and containing infinite timelines insides itself as subtimlines is not enough afaik... they must be independent of each other entirely and should have their multiversal past version across different points in the hypertimeline @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 what do u think?

Huh... What? I literally said it's timeline-like and has its own unique future too where Bill takes over the multiverse.

It's how Dragon Ball got it, there's literally no reason why Gravity Falls shouldn't lol.

 

[Reiner04]

Huh... What? I literally said it's timeline-like and has its own unique future too where Bill takes over the multiverse.

It's how Dragon Ball got it, there's literally no reason why Gravity Falls shouldn't lol.

Multiverse will have it's future in any regular multiverse. But point is, those futures must be independent of past version of multiverse. Like if past version of multiverse is destroyed, future must not,

 

[StrymULTRA]

Multiverse will have it's future in any regular multiverse. But point is, those futures must be independent of past version of multiverse. Like if past version of multiverse is destroyed, future must not,

1. Dragon Ball and Kingdom Hearts didn't have this requirement at all. Idk why only GF needs that.
2. Idk what you even mean by that.

Besides a staff that defended Hypertimes in that attempted removal did agree with this being a qualifier, because of simply being a higher space-time containing other ones qualifies for Tier 1. I think you're just overthinking here lol.

Looks good to me.

 

[Reiner04]

I think you're just overthinking here lol.

I always take care in consideration that I might be overthinking, this is why I tagged knowledgeable members to make sure I am not overly strict here. But as of now, imo, it doesn't qualify. DragonBall has it's own reasons to qualify like each universe having it's "own" origin of time as each of them has seaparate time chambers afair.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ok, if you wanna play this game...

this is why I tagged knowledgeable members to make sure I am not overly strict here.

For now, I'm leaning more on Option 1 than otherwise. May change depending on what others bring up.

The rest seems fine to me.

It's why I mentioned what would qualify is the 4th Dimension being time and the Nightmare Realm having a different stream still. It just having one in general is not a justification.

So... I think you're def. overthinking here.

DragonBall has it's own reasons to qualify like each universe having it's "own" origin of time as each of them has seaparate time chambers afair.

Is the NR being implied to have branching timelines in a MWI-like fashion not qualify for this? Because it's indeed other origins of time separated from the branching futures.

 

[Reiner04]

So... I think you're def. overthinking here.

Uh.. I didn't noticed that Qawsed took part in the thread. Still reading his point, he does not seems to have agreed to Nightmare being Hypertimeline. As has been said here:

Does not qualify for two temporal dimensions. A temporal dimension is just time moving in some fashion of forwards-backwards, with additional axis needed if that forwards-backwards motion cannot be used for all timelines.

And only seems to have said that which case can qualify but didn't mention if that case applies on this verse. Here:

It's why I mentioned what would qualify is the 4th Dimension being time and the Nightmare Realm having a different stream still. It just having one in general is not a justification.

So is there anywhere mentioned that Nightmare Realm have different timestream/time-axis than regular time-axis of timelines?

But I'll give it a benefit of doubt and tag him to confirm if he agreed with Nightmare Realm being Hypertimeline
@Qawsedf234 can u clarify your stance and reasoning regarding Nightmare being Hypertimelines?

And While Qawsed elaborates on his statement i have a question regarding point u brought up:

Is the NR being implied to have branching timelines in a MWI-like fashion not qualify for this? Because it's indeed other origins of time separated from the branching futures.

Can u elaborate on this part? I don't seems to grasp what u mean here.

 

[StrymULTRA]

So is there anywhere mentioned that Nightmare Realm have different timestream/time-axis than regular time-axis of timelines?

It's more so implied:

• Despite it being outside all the timelines and housing them, the Nightmare Realm is shown to have its own timeline and time passing within it.
• The fact that the Nightmare Realm is stated to be without laws, physics and causality despite the fact that each universe in the multiverse is its own space-time continuum with its own different laws.
• Bill tells about other infinite timelines where he actually won, unlike what happened in the main Gravity Falls one, with Bill being capable of also seeing at once all the other infinite variations of himself across infinite futures. Not to mention Bill saying that he was about to liberate his reality while mentioning the other ones.

I am starting to doubt you actually read the blog at this point, because you'd have noticed these all already lol.

Can u elaborate on this part? I don't seems to grasp what u mean here.

You know how MWI works where all the timelines branch in other ones depending on the possibilities, right?

The Multiverse within the NR seems to follow this (1 and 2), and Bill implies that the NR timelines follow a similar principle.

Plus, again, given you seem to ignore DDM for whatever reason, he said this:

A Hypertimeline is a timeline with more than one temporal dimension. And Timelines containing smaller but individually large enough to be their own timelines would require multiple temporal dimensions. I do not see anything else to counter against that. Why those things don't make sense is because they're "Double Negative fallacy"

I don't know how else can you interpret the Nightmare Realm, really. It follows MWI just like a timeline does, and has its own greater time stream that is disconnected by all the ones that are within the universes of the multiverse, with said time stream making each universe's own unique set of laws.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It's more so implied:

• Despite it being outside all the timelines and housing them, the Nightmare Realm is shown to have its own timeline and time passing within it.
• The fact that the Nightmare Realm is stated to be without laws, physics and causality despite the fact that each universe in the multiverse is its own space-time continuum with its own different laws.
• Bill tells about other infinite timelines where he actually won, unlike what happened in the main Gravity Falls one, with Bill being capable of also seeing at once all the other infinite variations of himself across infinite futures. Not to mention Bill saying that he was about to liberate his reality while mentioning the other ones.

Forgot to add this:

Time Baby uses "timeline" as a synonym for Multiverse, and it includes the Fourth Dimension, which is a "time and space between time and space" that is not only outside all the timelines of the multiverse, but is also a place where all those timelines and the events happening are strips of film.

 

[Reiner04]

It's more so implied:

• Despite it being outside all the timelines and housing them, the Nightmare Realm is shown to have its own timeline and time passing within it.
• The fact that the Nightmare Realm is stated to be without laws, physics and causality despite the fact that each universe in the multiverse is its own space-time continuum with its own different laws.
• Bill tells about other infinite timelines where he actually won, unlike what happened in the main Gravity Falls one, with Bill being capable of also seeing at once all the other infinite variations of himself across infinite futures. Not to mention Bill saying that he was about to liberate his reality while mentioning the other ones.

I am starting to doubt you actually read the blog at this point, because you'd have noticed these all already lol.

You know how MWI works where all the timelines branch in other ones depending on the possibilities, right?

The Multiverse within the NR seems to follow this (1 and 2), and Bill implies that the NR timelines follow a similar principle.

Plus, again, given you seem to ignore DDM for whatever reason, he said this:



I don't know how else can you interpret the Nightmare Realm, really. It follows MWI just like a timeline does, and has its own greater time stream that is disconnected by all the ones that are within the universes of the multiverse, with said time stream making each universe's own unique set of laws.

For record. I am not familiar with the verse, so I did read but understood very little, very reason I am asking u these questions b4 concluding it. And in beginning was relying on ur tldr but I should have refrained from hastily reaching out to conclusion that it's just another "different timeflow" like thread. So that's fault at my part. And also I ignored this point or should i say word u brought up in your tldr:

The Nightmare Realm is stated to be its own timeline despite containing infinite universes, each with its own unique flow of time and laws, and it's beyond the laws and physics of all the universes within it.

So that's again my mistake.

Now per what u brought.

Despite it being outside all the timelines and housing them, the Nightmare Realm is shown to have its own timeline and time passing within it.

I believe this is enough for me to conclude it as extra time dimension aka 6D. I apologise for ignoring the important parts of ur quotes in the tldr.

I will look at other parts of OP later, possibly tomorrow. But if the thread concludes b4 I give my input then u can conclude w/o me. I also think u should remove "different timeflow" and "different physics" as an argument for hypertimeline since they don't hold any meaning in it and might make someone misjudge the actual arguments.

 

[StrymULTRA]

For record. I am not familiar with the verse, so I did read but understood very little, very reason I am asking u these questions b4 concluding it. And in beginning was relying on ur tldr but I should have refrained from hastily reaching out to conclusion that it's just another "different timeflow" like thread. So that's fault at my part. And also I ignored this point or should i say word u brought up in your tldr:

I was on phone so I could take very very brief answers.

I also think u should remove "different timeflow" and "different physics" as an argument for hypertimeline since they don't hold any meaning in it and might make someone misjudge the actual arguments.

I think it's a fairly minor thing compared to the whole thing aka being called its own timeline and only 1 Bill existing in the multiverse, yet referencing other Bills in other Futures.

Though if it bothers other staff I will remove that part.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I believe this is enough for me to conclude it as extra time dimension aka 6D. I apologise for ignoring the important parts of ur quotes in the tldr.

Looks good to me.

BTW while I bump, I realized that Bill and Time Baby should have a note about them having a higher degree of Immeasurable speed if the 2nd temporal dimension of the NR applies, as in the verse's context, a "timeline" is a Nightmare Realm, and they seem to treat the flow of time as the one of the NR rather than a singular dimension in the multiverse.

Dragon Ball Heroes does have a similar note, so Bill and Time Baby should too.

Shacktron just scales so it'd be redundant on it tbh

In the meantime, what about this?

Scans are all on the speed part btw.

 

[Reiner04]

In the meantime, what about this?

Scans are all on the speed part btw.

Hypertimeline is just a second time axis, not superior. So hypertimeline do not give higher layer of immeasurable speed. But I can see u have linked a profile which has it as precident. So I'll be neutral on it.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Hypertimeline is just a second time axis, not superior. So hypertimeline do not give higher layer of immeasurable speed. But I can see u have linked a profile which has it as precident. So I'll be neutral on it.

Oh yeah, just to say that Sonic also has this kind of thing because of the verse also having 2 temporal dimensions (check statistics values on the profile).

If u gonna stay neutral after also this is also fine, but it's to say that it's pretty much a consistent thing here.

 

[Reiner04]

Oh yeah, just to say that Sonic also has this kind of thing because of the verse also having 2 temporal dimensions (check statistics values on the profile).

If u gonna stay neutral after also this is also fine, but it's to say that it's pretty much a consistent thing here.

Hmm... idk honestly then but I'll make sure whether or not hypertimelines stuff should give high layer immeasurable speed or not (I personally do not think it should) just incase if I ever encounter these types of feats in future to evaluate.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Hmm... idk honestly then but I'll make sure whether or not hypertimelines stuff should give high layer immeasurable speed or not (I personally do not think it should) just incase if I ever encounter these types of feats in future to evaluate.

Standard revision incoming

 

[ShakeResounding]

Sonic followed Dragon Ball's example regarding the "2nd temporal dimension = higher into Immeasurable", and I know this because it was always mentioned in vs matches, but maybe it DOES eventually need a standard thread tbh.

 

[StrymULTRA]

TBH the main reason is because if you bypass 2 temporal dimensions, you're essentially having the same gap above baseline Imm. that there is between Imm and other speeds, as the 2nd temporal axis does treat the space-time as just infinitesimal snapshots, rather than just space here.

But if y'all hate this,.,.,.,..,.,.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Sonic followed Dragon Ball's example regarding the "2nd temporal dimension = higher into Immeasurable", and I know this because it was always mentioned in vs matches, but maybe it DOES eventually need a standard thread tbh.

Oh yeah, there's also Tensura that does this for the WN.

So Reiner would have to revise 3 verses here for Bill not get the higher degree in Immeasurable.

But on the other hand, Alien X would also get higher in Imm lol

 

[Reiner04]

TBH the main reason is because if you bypass 2 temporal dimensions, you're essentially having the same gap above baseline Imm. that there is between Imm and other speeds, as the 2nd temporal axis does treat the space-time as just infinitesimal snapshots, rather than just space here.

But if y'all hate this,.,.,.,..,.,.

I don't hate this. I am simply not sure for the reason I provided. It's not something I made up today to disagree with this thread given I always look for "how a feat can qualify for smth" rather than "how it cannot". It's always been my impression towards 2nd temporal axis. But as I said, I am not necessarily right. So my opinion is null here and u don't have anything to worry about.

 

[StrymULTRA]

So my opinion is null here and u don't have anything to worry about.

Tbh my experience on this site is Staff almost all the time saying "idgaf about the standards imma gonna gatekeep this singular verse because **** you", so you can get from where I come from.

 

[Reiner04]

Option 1 looks okay.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Option 1 looks okay.

Would you be ok with the Nightmare Realm just be 1-B, or still a Likely here? I do not mind either case.

 

[Reiner04]

Would you be ok with the Nightmare Realm just be 1-B, or still a Likely here? I do not mind either case.

1-B.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Alright, so we have rn:

• 2 votes for 1-B (@Planck69 and @Reiner04)
• 1 vote for 1-C, likely 1-B and 1-A Dennis (@DarkDragonMedeus)
• 1 vote for 1-C, likely 1-B and no 1-A Dennis (@Qawsedf234)

No idea on what to do for this here, as making the current tier purely 1-B with just 2 votes while the other 2 votes are only for likely feels eh.

 

[Reiner04]

Alright, so we have rn:

• 2 votes for 1-B (@Planck69 and @Reiner04)
• 1 vote for 1-C, likely 1-B and 1-A Dennis (@DarkDragonMedeus)
• 1 vote for 1-C, likely 1-B and no 1-A Dennis (@Qawsedf234)

No idea on what to do for this here, as making the current tier purely 1-B with just 2 votes while the other 2 votes are only for likely feels eh.

Ask them again if they are fine with Pure 1-B. There is difference between leaning towards 1-C and being against pure 1-B entirely.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Alright, so we have rn:

• 2 votes for 1-B (@Planck69 and @Reiner04)
• 1 vote for 1-C, likely 1-B and 1-A Dennis (@DarkDragonMedeus)
• 1 vote for 1-C, likely 1-B and no 1-A Dennis (@Qawsedf234)

No idea on what to do for this here, as making the current tier purely 1-B with just 2 votes while the other 2 votes are only for likely feels eh.

Looks good to me.

This par

So, are you guys ok with changing it with just 1-B, if you don't but 1-A?

Ask them again if they are fine with Pure 1-B. There is difference between leaning towards 1-C and being against pure 1-B entirely.

I'd tag Ant and Firestorm here tbh.

 

[Reiner04]

DT answered my query saying if character can move along both axis then he qualifies. Thus I agree with layered immeasurable speed @StrymULTRA

https://vsbattles.com/members/donttalkdt.1149/#profile-post-comment-134587

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1349449732052881419/1351274747329249423/Screenshot_20250318_004939_Chrome.jpg?ex=67d9c82d&is=67d876ad&hm=86bf4f947ae584375c438ca7c2fa0f89d5604bd877efd840c86c7c024ece607d&

 

[GrathOfLux]

I've been asked to take a look at this, but I'll need a bit of time before I can get to it.

I'd tag Ant and Firestorm here tbh.

@Firestorm808 In the meanwhile, do you have any thoughts on this thread?

 

[StrymULTRA]

DT answered my query saying if character can move along both axis then he qualifies. Thus I agree with layered immeasurable speed @StrymULTRA

https://vsbattles.com/members/donttalkdt.1149/#profile-post-comment-134587

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1349449732052881419/1351274747329249423/Screenshot_20250318_004939_Chrome.jpg?ex=67d9c82d&is=67d876ad&hm=86bf4f947ae584375c438ca7c2fa0f89d5604bd877efd840c86c7c024ece607d&

Does it mean Alien X will get a buff too from this?

 

[Reiner04]

Does it mean Alien X will get a buff too from this?

I don't know. I am not much interested with scaling side of Ben 10 anymore. Just want something new to read/watch up.

 

[Electronic74947]

Does it mean Alien X will get a buff too from this?

Dw you got the 20+ sub 100 comment accounts to at are either gonna spawn in when that threads made agreeing