Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
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Stealing abilities from the Beholder. Can't have shit in Detroit.
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(GRACE) Vitreous Drinker vs The Hunter (Bloodborne) [Sorta REMATCH] 7-0-0
- Thread starter LephyrTheRevanchist
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It's a servant of Vecna, after all
Whenever Vecna sees a new shiny
Peppersalt43
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Well, I was the one responsible for this
Drinker FRA
Drinker FRA
Mr. Bambu
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Christ. My baby brother is 7, watches that ****** song constantly. Wish I could strangle that godforsaken puppet.
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It has omnidirectional vision, literally every inch of its skin is covered in eyes
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The latter, with the Drinker's line of sight being AoE around its entire body
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Correct
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Dont feed the power trip please, agreeing that a stomp is fair is a detriment to everyone
Peppersalt43
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First of all even if this is a stomp, The Hunter is still going down a notch in the Strongest Character list
Second, how is it a power trip? Everyone's trying to explain how this can work while you're wanking your opponent
Mr. Bambu
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Just ignore Weekly. There is nothing you can say that is adverse to his opinion that he will deign to hear.
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Thats fine
Because it cant work, as ive explained repeatedly. Bambu is just sticking his fingers in his ears and trying to turn a stomp match into a free win for a D&D character and Lephyr is just going along with it for some reason
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So to summarize this thread:
*Due to standard battle assumptions the hunter and drinker start at their furthest range apart from each other, which would be 100 meters. Also thanks to standard battle assumptions the Drinker would know what the hunter looks like, the direction he is in, and how far away he is, meaning the drinker literally just thinks and Dimension Doors to the Hunter, thus immediately crippling him with Horrific Gaze.
*The Drinker borderline incapacitates the Hunter just by being near them due to its Horrific Gaze ability, which makes the Hunter unable to do anything other than walk around, makes them unable to attack, and unable to use items or thought based abilities (thus nullifying the use of things like the hunter and bold hunter marks). Thanks to Speed Equalization, the hunter and drinker have equalized combat and reaction speed, but not movement speed, meaning the Hunter would have Normal Human to Athletic Human movement speed while the Drinker would have Supersonic+ to Hypersonic movement speed. This means that as soon as the Hunter is in range of the Gaze, he has zero means of escaping it or fighting back against the drinker. Even assuming the Gaze isnt AoE, the drinker is still absurdly faster than the Hunter, enough so to keep him in line of sight for as long as it wants.
*The Hunter range spamming would do nothing but give away his position as the Drinker has a passive forcefield that the hunter's firearms cannot bypass. Leading with something like Blue Elixir wouldnt work either due to dimension door + Gaze working on invisible opponents and the hunter being unable to move without canceling their invisibility. Trying to Stealth wouldnt work due to the Drinker's small army of raven familiars, their own AoE vision, their Arcane Eye spell, and their massive passive bonus to spotting hidden enemies. Hell, with the speed difference between them its unlikely the Hunter would even be able to keep track of the drinker unless it literally just stood still.
*The drinker has thought based death manipulation that can bypass the Hunter's resurrection via Finger of Death, touch based soul manip that does the same via Vampiric Touch, and can KO him by thinking with Eyebite. On top of this, the Drinker is 5x stronger than the Hunter, meaning that with the hunter unable to defend himself or even dodge, they will die in a few attacks. And not only is the drinker absurdly more intelligent than the Hunter at that point in the game, but if for some reason it doesnt kill the hunter with one of its resurrection bypassing abilities, Vecna just tells the Drinker how to deal with the Hunter when he shows up again. Even if you want to try to argue that the drinker's instawin abilities arent starting moves it does not matter, once it's in range of the hunter the hunter can do literally nothing to protect himself or escape.
So please, do tell me how this is not a stomp.
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So please, do tell me how this is not a stomp.
Also still waiting for the response to that scan i posted
Also still waiting for the response to that scan i posted
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Also Lephyr brought up in the other thread that the Drinker should have Type 8 immortality based on the plane of negative energy? Is that true? Because as established in the previous thread the Hunter has no way to bypass that
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Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
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Hundreds of meters is easily enough range to deal with the Drinker. That's Hundreds, not a Hundred. Strike one.
Dimension Door is a one time use ability, and closing distance is not the thing's first strategy. Strike two. For bonus points, this isn't even a victory, just a cripple you're arguing.
The Drinker doesn't have omnidirectional vision, you're just wanking it to have such. This ability is specifically stated in D&D, which I thought you'd know given you have interacted with the verse before. The Hunter isn't just clusterfucked the instant he's in range. Strike three. Additionally you're mentioning speed ratings that I can't really grasp. Speed equalization makes them even in all ratings.
The Drinker's deflection is absolutely able to be bypassed by attacks. It makes hits less likely, not guaranteed total mitigation. Shan't call this one a strike since this one seems to be genuine misunderstanding rather than malignant misconstruing.
Stealth can work, even against groups. I encourage you to play Splinter Cell at some point. Strike four.
Vampiric Touch is not an instant kill, and should not be elevated to the level of Finger of Death. You're completely right about FoD, but that fact alone doesn't make a match 100% unwinnable. Strike five.
Vecna is not remote controlling the Drinker. You're also conveniently ignoring the bit about the SBA (your otherwise most quoted thing in this fight), that outside help is not allowed. Strike six.
You consistently misrepresent things and demand to be treated with courtesy you refuse to offer others.
Dimension Door is a one time use ability, and closing distance is not the thing's first strategy. Strike two. For bonus points, this isn't even a victory, just a cripple you're arguing.
The Drinker doesn't have omnidirectional vision, you're just wanking it to have such. This ability is specifically stated in D&D, which I thought you'd know given you have interacted with the verse before. The Hunter isn't just clusterfucked the instant he's in range. Strike three. Additionally you're mentioning speed ratings that I can't really grasp. Speed equalization makes them even in all ratings.
The Drinker's deflection is absolutely able to be bypassed by attacks. It makes hits less likely, not guaranteed total mitigation. Shan't call this one a strike since this one seems to be genuine misunderstanding rather than malignant misconstruing.
Stealth can work, even against groups. I encourage you to play Splinter Cell at some point. Strike four.
Vampiric Touch is not an instant kill, and should not be elevated to the level of Finger of Death. You're completely right about FoD, but that fact alone doesn't make a match 100% unwinnable. Strike five.
Vecna is not remote controlling the Drinker. You're also conveniently ignoring the bit about the SBA (your otherwise most quoted thing in this fight), that outside help is not allowed. Strike six.
You consistently misrepresent things and demand to be treated with courtesy you refuse to offer others.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
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As for your last post: Lephyr is a jive ass ************ and relevant to D&D. Zephyr is a troll. Two different people.
Type 9 Immortality is... arguable, but it would not actually keep them alive. Their soul is technically a nexus into the Plane of Negative Energy. You can kill them and be fine, but soul having them may be difficult. Luckily the Hunter is not prone to such hax, eh?
Type 9 Immortality is... arguable, but it would not actually keep them alive. Their soul is technically a nexus into the Plane of Negative Energy. You can kill them and be fine, but soul having them may be difficult. Luckily the Hunter is not prone to such hax, eh?
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Not when the Hunter doesnt have a way to exploit that range against the Drinker when the fight starts, something the Drinker can instantly nullify via Dimension Door or literally just by running around. Strike one
Using it once is all it would need to do to win, it gets in range and it wins automatically even if its not instant. Strike two
Is it though? Darkvision, blindsight, and low light vision are a thing but i dont recall omnidirectional vision being a specific ability in 3.5e. Either way, the Hunter is in fact clusterfucked the instant he's in range, even assuming it doesnt have omnidirectional vision the drinker can literally just keep looking at him and the Hunter can do nothing to fight back. Hell i havent even brought up Drink Vision just bypassing the Hunter's resistances entirely. Strike three
Oh my guy...youre not aware of the new ruling are you?
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"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc."
Its okay, i got burned by the new rule before too, its stupid but this is the new standard for speed equalization, only combat speed is equalized. Their speed would be brought down to Mach 32, the Hunter's combat speed, reactions would be the same, Mach 32, and movement speed for the drinker would be cut in half, so Mach 7 vs the Hunter's Athletic Human movement speed.
Fair enough i suppose, in the previous thread it was treated as a full forcefield and even its profile describes it as attack reflection and damage reduction.
Are you really equating the absurd stealth of D&D to the baseline stealth capabilities of the Hunter? And ignoring all of the other ESP abilities the Drinker has too, very nice. Strike four
You yourself confirmed the Hunter lacks soul and death resistance, as did Lephyr in the previous thread with how potent the drinker's soul hax are, so yes it would be. Strike five
Never argued it was controlling the Drinker but fair enough i suppose.
I only respond to how others decide to treat me my friend. Everyone deserves to be treated with courtesy but if that is not an option to the opposing party then courtesy shall not be given in return. Golden rule and all.
It was Lephyr, not Zephyr.
He does not have that kind of hax no, we literally agreed to this on the previous thread
You also ignored like half my points there so im going to take it you agree with them.
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Hell, stealth via the Blue Elixir wouldnt even be that useful, it doesnt even give full invisibility, just turns the hunter transparent but he can still be seen by enemies. That would do nothing to help him in stealth when the Drinker would know what he looks like and would be actively looking for him
Mr. Bambu
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The Hunter can play range and become invisible. The Drinker's senses are not as advanced as you propose them as.
No, not always. But you already know this. There are scenarios in which the Hunter survives being near the Drinker. Furthermore, the Drinker explicitly does not close distance if it can help it.
Omnidirectional vision isn't a vision type, it's a specific ability. He isn't instantly clusterfucked. We've gone over this. He is rendered only able to move while the Drinker looks at him. Not unwinnable, not an instant scenario.
Every speed is equalized. Well spotted. Condescension duly noted, shall add it to the list.
It is attack deflection and damage reduction. Think of it like a streamlined armor that more easily casts attacks off.
The Drinker cannot detect invisible creatures aside from sound. So yeah.
No shit? All soul hax doesn't instakill without resistance, guy. Vampiric Touch ain't an instant kill. Read the ******* words.
You've been wanking Vecna in this match harder than he is usually wanked by the uneducated.
You treat everyone like shit, bud. Maybe try a new approach. More honesty, less pride in nothin'.
You editing posts to try to seem less stupid is a standard at this point. I can see you edited it.
Yeah, he doesn't rely on that hax. So the ability that isn't on the page, does not matter, as it would only matter if the Hunter had soul manip. All caught up, I hope?
No, not always. But you already know this. There are scenarios in which the Hunter survives being near the Drinker. Furthermore, the Drinker explicitly does not close distance if it can help it.
Omnidirectional vision isn't a vision type, it's a specific ability. He isn't instantly clusterfucked. We've gone over this. He is rendered only able to move while the Drinker looks at him. Not unwinnable, not an instant scenario.
Every speed is equalized. Well spotted. Condescension duly noted, shall add it to the list.
It is attack deflection and damage reduction. Think of it like a streamlined armor that more easily casts attacks off.
The Drinker cannot detect invisible creatures aside from sound. So yeah.
No shit? All soul hax doesn't instakill without resistance, guy. Vampiric Touch ain't an instant kill. Read the ******* words.
You've been wanking Vecna in this match harder than he is usually wanked by the uneducated.
You treat everyone like shit, bud. Maybe try a new approach. More honesty, less pride in nothin'.
You editing posts to try to seem less stupid is a standard at this point. I can see you edited it.
Yeah, he doesn't rely on that hax. So the ability that isn't on the page, does not matter, as it would only matter if the Hunter had soul manip. All caught up, I hope?
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Drinker FRA
Also
Heck I even remember times where I had to convince him a D&D character would win a match so this is just ????
Also
Bambu is the last person on this God forsaken land seeking out wins for D&D, I barely manage to get him to comment on matches
Heck I even remember times where I had to convince him a D&D character would win a match so this is just ????
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Why are you FRAing a stomp?
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The Hunter is not able to become invisible, only transparent, but still fully visible to enemies that are looking at him.
+19 to Spot alone would hard counter this
"The Spot skill is used primarily to detect characters or creatures who are hiding. Typically, your Spot check is opposed by the Hide check of the creature trying not to be seen. Sometimes a creature isn’t intentionally hiding but is still difficult to see, so a successful Spot check is necessary to notice it.
A Spot check result higher than 20 generally lets you become aware of an invisible creature near you, though you can’t actually see it."
This coupled with the Drinker's 15 in Wis means it can detect invisible beings by default. Let alone Arcane Eye and the ravens.
Yes always, just being in range of the Hunter is all it needs to win. It doesnt even need to close the distance as Gaze has a 60 foot range
Link to this ability?
And cool, what is he going to do? Walk the drinker to death?
Nope, only combat speed is equalized, nothing else. all of their other speeds would get reduced by the same amount as the combat speed, ergo cut in half due to the drinker having exactly double the Hunter's combat speed, so the drinker's movement speed would be cut from mach 15 to mach 7, whereas the hunter remain athletic human. Not sure what you mean by condescension though, that was sympathy.
Cool? The Hunter still cant really do anything against that with his firearms.
The Hunter isnt invisible so yeah.
Ah, my mistake, i forgot 3.5 and 5 VT have different effects
My guy, i brought up Vecna all of twice this entire debate what are you even talking about
I treat everyone as nice as possible as my personal goal, i only react negatively to people who treat me negatively first, such as this conversation. Be kind but take no shit as it were.
? Are you talking about the name mistake i fixed? I changed it because you pointed it out to me, not sure why youre acting like you caught me committing a crime my guy.
No? Because it still means the Hunter cant kill the Drinker due to its types 2 and 8 immoralities
Mr. Bambu
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Christ I hate text walling on phone.
You have to manually activate a Spot check, and again it would not allow him to perfectly track the Hunter. That said, I must remind y'all that stealth was never my argument to begin with.
The gaze isn't omnidirectional. So not always.
"All around vision". The Drinker doesn't have that. He can be flanked (i.e., stealthed upon).
You literally can't read the Speed Equalization text and I can't help you learn. It specifies that every speed type is equalized. The movement speed is the same speed relative to other speeds, reduced by as much as other speeds.
Yeah. He can.
Vampiric Touch isn't instakill in 5e either.
Sigh.
I don't believe you. I have known you for years, you have lied and twisted shit for all of that. I thought maybe, maybe you changed after your ban. You have consistently made me regret such a thought ever since. I do genuinely hope you can do some introspection and legitimately change.
Yeah, that one. The one we were talking about. That one. No crime committed, just funny.
Type 9, Weekly. Read. The. *******. Words. The Drinker is not properly immortal. It's "soul" is in the Negative Energy Plane. It can be killed by all traditional means. I don't know how much more I can dumb this down.
You have to manually activate a Spot check, and again it would not allow him to perfectly track the Hunter. That said, I must remind y'all that stealth was never my argument to begin with.
The gaze isn't omnidirectional. So not always.
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"All around vision". The Drinker doesn't have that. He can be flanked (i.e., stealthed upon).
You literally can't read the Speed Equalization text and I can't help you learn. It specifies that every speed type is equalized. The movement speed is the same speed relative to other speeds, reduced by as much as other speeds.
Yeah. He can.
Vampiric Touch isn't instakill in 5e either.
Sigh.
I don't believe you. I have known you for years, you have lied and twisted shit for all of that. I thought maybe, maybe you changed after your ban. You have consistently made me regret such a thought ever since. I do genuinely hope you can do some introspection and legitimately change.
Yeah, that one. The one we were talking about. That one. No crime committed, just funny.
Type 9, Weekly. Read. The. *******. Words. The Drinker is not properly immortal. It's "soul" is in the Negative Energy Plane. It can be killed by all traditional means. I don't know how much more I can dumb this down.
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Goofy ahh thread.
Neutral.
Neutral.
Mr. Bambu
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Thank you, peanut gallery.
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You're welcome baby boo
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That's flavor text, not actual mechanics. By rulings of what Gaze attack are and how they function, and his ability not mentioning that the ability has a radius, the creature does not have AoE vision (except when using its Ravens).
It has omnidirectional vision, literally every inch of its skin is covered in eyes
Such knowledge of dnd.
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I have reasonably explained my position. That's the last thing I will tell you.
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Drinker FRA
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Will debunk the rest of Bambu's arguments in a few minutes
And if this gets added i will have it removed.
And if this gets added i will have it removed.
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Which it would do in-character given its whole in-character action being information gathering and it knows the hunters appearance and general location
Hmm, fair enough, though stealth isnt going to be that massive of a help given the armor class bonus + being 5-6x more durable than the Hunter's AP and havin Type 2 immortality. Even if the Hunter gets a stealth attack it wont be able to kill it.
So youre just refusing to accept the speed equalization rules? Or should i ping you every time speed equalization is equalized in the way the rules specify so you can tell people no? Because the way you are claiming speed equalization works is wrong.
No he cant, even in his own game he cant, now youre just outright lying.
I do not know what you mean. I do not lie and i have gotten better. Your refusal to believe as such and continued treatment like i am still the person i was a year ago is nothing but a reflection of yourself, not me. You simply refuse to believe ive changed when ive done nothing to indicate otherwise. Thats on you, not me.
Oh nooooo you caught me fixing a spelling mistake, how awful. Grow up.
Yes, Type 9. The Drinker also has Type 2, which is what i am focusing on.
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I love how you flipped from 'The Drinker is skilled enough to fight an entire party of players more skilled than the hunter who also have prep time, prior knowledge, and summons and can still kill all of them' to 'the Hunter is more skilled because Bambu said so'
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Argued from the start that he had enough to survive. Nothing more, nothing less. It's on you if you misinterpret my argument.
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Lephyr, being skilled enough that 4+ people with prep, prior knowledge, and more skill, intelligence, versatility, and hax than the hunter can ever get in his entire game is more 'just enough to survive'. Im not misinterpreting your argument, youre changing your argument to try to dumb down the Drinker because its what Bambu wants.
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Yes, you keep saying that yet demonstrating the opposite, which makes what youre claiming irrelevant if not an outright lie. Bambu told people that you are the one to listen to when it comes to D&D so now youre just going along with whatever he says even if it directly contradicts with argument you made in this thread and previous threads.
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No. It's called having a different opinion to him, yet still reaching a similar conclusion. Notice how I'm not even counting my vote despite the fact I could if I wanted. I disagree overall with Bambu on:
- The Vecna thing not being notable
- The overall skills of dnd creatures
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Believe whatever you want to believe. I've stated my reasonings clearly.
Since you want to imply foulplay constantly, borderline insulting me and my intelligence by implying I can't form my own opinion independent from another (even worse, implying they have any hold me because they respect my knowledge of the verse), I refuse to keep dealing with you. Others can look at the other thread and this one and form their own conclusions.
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