(GRACE) Vitreous Drinker vs The Hunter (Bloodborne) [Sorta REMATCH] 7-0-0

[InfiniteDay]

Just gonna preface this as I saw this thread and know nothing on either D&D and Bloodborne, so I'll be basing this off the argument I've seen brought up.

I agree with Bambu that simply out-ranging Vitreous Drinker is a valid win-con, since bullet spamming should eventually kill even with the durability difference, and this is easier since Drinker has a ton of eyes, so internal damage is inevitable. And no, Type 2 isn't invincible, and it depends on how potent it is.

For speed equalization standards, the page specifically notes:

"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc."

From the way it emphasizes multiplier, it can be assumed that only combat speed is directly equalized, with every other form of speed being reduced proportionally by how much the faster character was nerfed, i.e. the multiplier in which there combat speed was reduced. From the wording, Drinker should have massively faster movements. It should probably be noted that speed equalization includes movement speed in this match, since I think its stupid that it doesn't naturally.

The Hunter should easily be able to sneak on Drinker by sniping the crows and moving behind, considering the image of Drinker itself has them wearing a massive cloak behind them, so their vision isn't even omnidirectional naturally if you wanted to argue it. Prep time for The Hunter should also count if the Drinker really does just not prefer to go into CQC and watches the opponent for days.

And one more thing: Can you two stop this childish squabbling for 5 seconds? I don't care who started it, I don't care that you two have a history, I don't care if Weekly got things wrong, stop acting like two third-graders. I'd assume your both adults, so start acting like you matured in life. The sheer spite for each other you two radiate is confounding.



Drinker fra btw, I do not believe this is a stomp (it's very close to one however).

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No. It's called having a different opinion to him, yet still reaching a similar conclusion. Notice how I'm not even counting my vote despite the fact I could if I wanted. I disagree overall with Bambu on:

• The Vecna thing not being notable
• The overall skills of dnd creatures

And yet you havent disagreed with him on these things in this thread

Believe whatever you want to believe. I've stated my reasonings clearly.

Your reasonings are wrong, plain and simple.

Since you want to imply foulplay constantly, borderline insulting me and my intelligence by implying I can't form my own opinion independent from another (even worse, implying they have any hold me because they respect my knowledge of the verse), I refuse to keep dealing with you. Others can look at the other thread and this one and form their own conclusions.

I never said that, though? Even in the previous thread you were fine, its just that the second Bambu showed up you immediately defaulted to going along with his claims even if it meant contradicting everything you were previously arguing. If you'd like to leave thats fine, i'll continue arguing that this is a stomp and have asked others to come here to do the same

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I accept that Weekly's position will not be changed, so I'm just going to opt to let people vote as they like.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I agree with Bambu that simply out-ranging Vitreous Drinker is a valid win-con, since bullet spamming should eventually kill even with the durability difference, and this is easier since Drinker has a ton of eyes, so internal damage is inevitable. And no, Type 2 isn't invincible, and it depends on how potent it is.

The problem with that is:

1. The Hunter does not have the ammunition capacity nor the ranged precision to do that, and the Drinker and Hunter have the same range with their ranged options, so range isnt enough to deal with that

2. The Drinker has a passive barrier, damage reduction, and attack reflection, all of which would make hurting it with the Hunter's bullets much more difficult.

3. The Hunter's attack speed would only be Supersonic to the drinker's High Hypersonic reactions and combat speed, so dodging would be absurdly easy.

For speed equalization standards, the page specifically notes:

"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc."

From the way it emphasizes multiplier, it can be assumed that only combat speed is directly equalized, with every other form of speed being reduced proportionally by how much the faster character was nerfed, i.e. the multiplier in which there combat speed was reduced. From the wording, Drinker should have massively faster movements. It should probably be noted that speed equalization includes movement speed in this match, since I think its stupid that it doesn't naturally.

Yes, this is correct

The Hunter should easily be able to sneak on Drinker by sniping the crows and moving behind, considering the image of Drinker itself has them wearing a massive cloak behind them, so their vision isn't even omnidirectional naturally if you wanted to argue it. Prep time for The Hunter should also count if the Drinker really does just not prefer to go into CQC and watches the opponent for days.

The problem with that is the Drinker sees through the crows and knows where they are at all times, as well as knowing when they die, and the Hunter not having prior knowledge to know to kill them. The Hunter killing the crows would just let the Drinker know where the Hunter is. The Hunter also does not have prep-time specified in the OP, so prep wouldnt apply here.

 

[InfiniteDay]

The problem with that is:

1. The Hunter does not have the ammunition capacity nor the ranged precision to do that, and the Drinker and Hunter have the same range with their ranged options, so range isnt enough to deal with that

2. The Drinker has a passive barrier, damage reduction, and attack reflection, all of which would make hurting it with the Hunter's bullets much more difficult.

3. The Hunter's attack speed would only be Supersonic to the drinker's High Hypersonic reactions and combat speed, so dodging would be absurdly easy.

From what I've seen, Drinker would opt to not engage but rather observe, which should give The Hunter prep time to do whatever. Killing the crows should alert Drinker to The Hunter's exact position unless The Hunter was right next to the crow, which would be stupid since The Hunter has range in the 100's of meters. Plus I've not seen anything that shows Drinker would even engage if one dies.

But yeah, the passive barrier + attack reflection sounds like a problem, mind explaining what each of them are and what they do specifically?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

But yeah, the passive barrier + attack reflection sounds like a problem, mind explaining what each of them are and what they do specifically?

The Vitreous Drinker is surrounded by an invisible passive shield. It can stop physical and some range attacks of comparable strength. It can't stop stuff like AoE and energy attacks tho.

Edit: Should be noted, the reason Bambu mentions that it works "sometimes", it's because certain attacks can straight bypass it (because of how mechanics work in dnd) normally. The reasoning in-verse for that can be attributed to skill or sheer strength.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The Vitreous Drinker is surrounded by an invisible passive shield. It can stop physical and some range attacks of comparable strength. It can't stop stuff like AoE and energy attacks tho.

Which ***** over the Hunter because his ranged attacks are 5x weaker than the Drinker and he doesnt have AoE attacks with that kind of range

 

[InfiniteDay]

The Vitreous Drinker is surrounded by an invisible passive shield. It can stop physical and some range attacks of comparable strength. It can't stop stuff like AoE and energy attacks tho.

Reading over The Hunter's page, apparently via Bolt Gems their weapons can do electrical damage, would this bypass the forcefield?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Reading over The Hunter's page, apparently via Bolt Gems their weapons can do electrical damage, would this bypass the forcefield?

Are they like a projectile made from electricity? Or do the electricity like "explodes" if you get what I mean?

If they are like a bolt covered in electricity, that doesn't work. The other two scenarios do.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Are they like a projectile made from electricity? Or do the electricity like "explodes" if you get what I mean?

If they are like a bolt covered in electricity, that doesn't work. The other two scenarios do.

Its just a bullet that deals electricity damage instead of blood/physical damage, it doesnt explode

 

[InfiniteDay]

Are they like a projectile made from electricity? Or do the electricity like "explodes" if you get what I mean?

If they are like a bolt covered in electricity, that doesn't work. The other two scenarios do.

All it says is that they do "bolt damage" instead of "physical damage", so I'm not sure. I'm guessing they become electricity, since it's not longer doing physical damage.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

All it says is that they do "bolt damage" instead of "physical damage", so I'm not sure. I'm guessing they become electricity, since it's not longer doing physical damage.

Then yes, that does bypass it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

From what I've seen, Drinker would opt to not engage but rather observe, which should give The Hunter prep time to do whatever. Killing the crows should alert Drinker to The Hunter's exact position unless The Hunter was right next to the crow, which would be stupid since The Hunter has range in the 100's of meters. Plus I've not seen anything that shows Drinker would even engage if one dies.

The thing is, on top of those things, by SBA the Drinker would know the Hunter's appearance and the general direction they are at the start of the fight, meaning that not only can they teleport to or near them with Dimension Door, but some of their other spells like Arcane Eye (grants ESP over a large area) and Detect Thoughts (Lets the user read minds of everything in the general area at a range of 60 feet) would let the Drinker keep tabs on the Hunter's location easily. Plus the Hunter's firearms are loud, theyre guns, you would definitely hear a gun going off in the middle of Central Park.

But yeah, the passive barrier + attack reflection sounds like a problem, mind explaining what each of them are and what they do specifically?

Lephyr beat me to it lol

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Then yes, that does bypass it.

All it says is that they do "bolt damage" instead of "physical damage", so I'm not sure. I'm guessing they become electricity, since it's not longer doing physical damage.

Its just a bullet that deals electricity damage instead of blood/physical damage, it doesnt explode and thus wouldnt bypass it

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

To explain the difference that I mean:
This spell deals electricity damage. It gets blocked by the barrier.

This spell also does electricity damage, but it doesn't get blocked. The creature needs to physically dodge it.

The first spell is a "conjuration" spell, meaning, a spell that creates a tangible, physical effect. The second one is an evocation spell, it generates an effect/projects energy.

The barrier only blocks those physical and tangible effects.

 

[InfiniteDay]

The thing is, on top of those things, by SBA the Drinker would know the Hunter's appearance and the general direction they are at the start of the fight, meaning that not only can they teleport to or near them with Dimension Door, but some of their other spells like Arcane Eye (grants ESP over a large area) and Detect Thoughts (Lets the user read minds of everything in the general area at a range of 60 feet) would let the Drinker keep tabs on the Hunter's location easily. Plus the Hunter's firearms are loud, theyre guns, you would definitely hear a gun going off in the middle of Central Park.

For 1: Drinker would be examining The Hunter for days based off their standard habits, so going for the kill instantly is off the table. Detect Thoughts and Arcane Eye seem to be limited by range which The Hunter already stays outside of. Once all of the crows are gone, how exactly does Drinker keep track of Hunter without creating more crows before The Hunter uses prep to gain an advantage or simply bullet spams after prep is done?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

To explain the difference that I mean:
This spell deals electricity damage. It gets blocked by the barrier.

This spell also does electricity damage, but it doesn't get blocked. The creature needs to physically dodge it.

The first spell is a "conjuration" spell, meaning, a spell that creates a tangible, physical effect. The second one is an evocation spell, it generates an effect/projects energy.

The barrier only blocks those physical and tangible effects.

Yes, it would be the same as the former, its a physical bullet, it just deals electrical damage instead of blood damage

 

[WeeklyBattles]

For 1: Drinker would be examining The Hunter for days based off their standard habits, so going for the kill instantly is off the table. Detect Thoughts and Arcane Eye seem to be limited by range which The Hunter already stays outside of. Once all of the crows are gone, how exactly does Drinker keep track of Hunter without creating more crows before The Hunter uses prep to gain an advantage or simply bullet spams after prep is done?

The Hunter's standard tactics are getting close to the opponent and using aggressive CQC, range spamming is heavily out of character and tends to be an option that is only used against someone the Hunter has died to multiple times, and even then the Hunter only has hundreds of meters range with a single one of his weapons, Ludwig's Rifle. Everything else he has access to is a shotgun, a pistol, or a close range flamethrower, and he also has a limited amount of bullets, 20 to be exact, after which he will either be unable to use ranged attacks or will have to start siphoning his own vitality to keep making bullets.

And again, the Hunter does not know the crows are part of the drinker's arsenal and thus would have no reason to just randomly shoot birds in the trees.

 

[InfiniteDay]

The Hunter's standard tactics are getting close to the opponent and using aggressive CQC, range spamming is heavily out of character and tends to be an option that is only used against someone the Hunter has died to multiple times, and even then the Hunter only has hundreds of meters range with a single one of his weapons, Ludwig's Rifle. Everything else he has access to is a shotgun, a pistol, or a close range flamethrower, and he also has a limited amount of bullets, 20 to be exact, after which he will either be unable to use ranged attacks or will have to start siphoning his own vitality to keep making bullets.

And again, the Hunter does not know the crows are part of the drinker's arsenal and thus would have no reason to just randomly shoot birds in the trees.

Fair enough, thought wouldn't The Hunter get out of their range as soon as the Gaze effects start to affect him?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Fair enough, thought wouldn't The Hunter get out of their range as soon as the Gaze effects start to affect him?

Not likely, due to the Drinker's movement speed its more than fast enough to just keep the Hunter in its line of sight to keep him affected by the gaze, and the gaze inflicts the Nauseated status for as long as the Hunter is affected by it.

Nauseated makes it so that those affected are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn.

Additionally, the Driner has the ability Drink Vision which makes it so that if the Hunter is affected by it, they are completely unable to resist the Gaze effects

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'd also point out that the Hunter can, in fact, be faster than the Drinker due to Quickening.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

D&D guy FRA

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I'd also point out that the Hunter can, in fact, be faster than the Drinker due to Quickening.

Quickening doesnt amplify movement speed, only burst speed, and it requires blood bullets to use which would eat through the Hunter's capacity to use ranged attacks even faster

 

[Mr. Bambu]

D&D guy FRA

That's grace.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Quickening doesnt amplify movement speed, only burst speed, and it requires blood bullets to use which would eat through the Hunter's capacity to use ranged attacks even faster

Could be. Still worthy of note, though, and it also doesn't hurt that the Hunter can generate quite a lot of bullets by inflicting damage on himself. I don't think running out of ammunition is actually what will do the Hunter in, really- he can heal from the damage he does to himself reliably. Not a problem there.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Could be. Still worthy of note, though, and it also doesn't hurt that the Hunter can generate quite a lot of bullets by inflicting damage on himself. I don't think running out of ammunition is actually what will do the Hunter in, really- he can heal from the damage he does to himself reliably. Not a problem there.

Rally doesnt work for ranged attacks, to do that he needs to physically harm the drinker with melee attacks which aint working because Gaze and the barrier

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Rally doesnt work for ranged attacks, to do that he needs to physically harm the drinker with melee attacks which aint working because Gaze and the barrier

Blood vials, Weekly.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Blood vials, Weekly.

Of which the Hunter has a limited amount, and which he also cant use while affected by Gaze

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Of which the Hunter has a limited amount, and which he also cant use while affected by Gaze

20 blood vials is extremely sufficient to maintain a bullet stash, Weekly, and that's not taking into account the extra ones he could have. He will die long before he runs out of ammunition.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

20 blood vials is extremely sufficient to maintain a bullet stash, Weekly, and that's not taking into account the extra ones he could have. He will die long before he runs out of ammunition.

None of which matters because the bullets wont work

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I accept that Weekly's position will not be changed, so I'm just going to opt to let people vote as they like.

I defer back to this position. I cannot force you to accept my words.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If you werent going to bother arguing why respond at all?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If you werent going to bother arguing why respond at all?

I have argued a great deal, actually.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I have argued a great deal, actually.

Amount argued =/= correct arguments

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Amount argued =/= correct arguments

You have no idea how ironic it is that you, specifically, admit this. The wolves are particularly self aware today, it seems.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

You have no idea how ironic it is that you, specifically, admit this. The wolves are particularly self aware today, it seems.

How so? Im not incorrect here, you are.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

How so? Im not incorrect here, you are.

Mm. Match is in grace, regardless. There's been plenty of discussion about this being a stomp. Quite a lot of misinformation inserted, too. If someone wants to get it removed, everyone is capable of reading the shit here.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yep, I will have it removed the instant it goes on the profiles, stomp matches being added should not be tolerated

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

That's grace.

Grace reached. Thread can be added to both profiles.