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Tsudade is only 2x stronger in AP. For her to be able to kill Akuma with one attack she would need something like, 8 gigatons
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(GRACE) The Legendary Sannin VS The Demonic Martial Artist (7/1/0)
- Thread starter TauanVictor
- Start date
Tsudade is only 2x stronger in AP. For her to be able to kill Akuma with one attack she would need something like, 8 gigatons
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We have rules and stuff to regulate this, oneshots in-verse work differently from fiction to fiction, for indexing and vs matches we only use raw numbers, and those we have aren't stomp-worthy.
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I'm confused by this, are you saying we should ignore her scaling chain? Because saying she's just vaguely above 2.65 GT isn't accurate when she consistently one-shots characters that significantly upscale that value.
YoutubeForKing
He/Him- 1,066
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Bro just vote Tsunade if these kids want to gloss over the fact that she one tapped someone over twice as powerful as akuma then let them.
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Yes, we don't have cutscenes or anything, but his Rakan works behind the idea that it is a "perfect block" that nullifies the opponent's hit.
We don't have ways to determine the limit of this move, unfortunately.
It can be assumed to work with those comparable to him and to be effective because of Akuma's super skill, however we can't assume it nullifies every single hit, it depends on how skilled the opponent is to land hits and how Akuma replies with this technique.
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No, I'm saying we can't say that Tsunade oneshots Akuma just because she oneshots a 2.65 tons character.
Our vs rules dictate that an AP stomp occurs when a character scales to a calculation that is already 7.5 times greater than the calculation to which the opponent scales.
Scaling chains are just treated as unquantifiable upscaling, regardless of how big they are, even for indexing purposes, they can be used to alter tiering only if the original calc is already pretty close to the baseline of something, like the baseline of the next tier or the half of their current one (for the + signs)
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That basically makes scaling chains utterly pointless then, which makes no sense to me.
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I'm not glossing over anything and honestly you should try to be more respectful, no one has been rude so far, and at least not me.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,083
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Well Akuma is more skilled than Tsunade in martial arts I assume right? So he should be able to use the ability effectively on her and nullify her attacks.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,083
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Yea Im gonna change my vote to Akuma going off the following
1. Speed is equal meaning even with Tsunade's assumed ap advantage, Akuma has power null that can render her attacks moot.
2. Akuma is a clear better fighter unless there's some martial arts mastery Tsunade has that I don't know, as well as her never showing anything impressive in the department of martial arts when fighting and generally just punching really hard.
1. Speed is equal meaning even with Tsunade's assumed ap advantage, Akuma has power null that can render her attacks moot.
2. Akuma is a clear better fighter unless there's some martial arts mastery Tsunade has that I don't know, as well as her never showing anything impressive in the department of martial arts when fighting and generally just punching really hard.
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Not really, that's how indexing on the wiki as worked since, like, forever.
Scaling chains are useful to have an idea of how strong a characters is, but we've never given any actual number to characters because of scaling chains.
And all vs matches work under this assumption, you take the first calc a character scales to, as use it as a basis to compare their stats to those of the opponent, and take in account scaling chains only to give an idea of how much stronger than that they theoretically are.
But these are rules that are accepted and applied since a long time, both for vs matches and for indexing, which is why you see characters that have supe duper long scaling chains behind them but remain in the same tier of the character at the bottom.
The Attack Potency page explains better some of the aforementioned things, especially the "additional terms" section
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I can't tell that, my knowledge of Naruto is extremely limited.
Later today I can leave a brief list of Akuma's skill feats and related stuff, to help make a comparison if someone wants to give input on Tsunade's skill.
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Tsunade is more skilled in Taijutsu than Jiraiya and Orochimaru.
AdNiBN002
He/Him- 462
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Akuma being a superior martial artist isn't really much of a win-condition given that Tsunade can consistently throw up high-damage attacks that he constantly has to manage, it seems more like a not-lose condition at that point. And it seems disingenuous to believe that he will just super-skill every single attack forever as a single mistake will basically be match-over. Even if Tsunade doesn't 1-shot she should do pretty severe damage and i don't see any immense pain-tolerace Akuma that's gonna keep him in the match after that.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,083
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he can power null her punches.
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Tsunade's not dumb. If she finds that her punches aren't effective, then she'll switch up her strategies. She can utilize thousands of Katsuyu clones which can spit corrosive acid, or alternatively, utilize her Medical Ninjutsu offensively to one-shot Akuma with her durability negating techniques like the chakra scalpel, instant death technique she was going to use on Orochimaru, or killing his cells by rapid over division.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,083
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She generally doesn't do her other abilities in fights though. Majority of her fights were just fist fights so I have trouble agreeing she's gonna last long enough to end up switching to another tactic, I mean hell she didn't even try Katsuyu on Madara and against Oro I believe she was nerfed and summoned Katsuyu to help. So no she won't last long enough to try another tactic. Akuma overwhelms her and beats her down till she can't regain while nulling her attacks.
AdNiBN002
He/Him- 462
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Which he has to do manually if i recall. If he fails once that's match-over.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,083
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Thats fine, considering he can sense people's power I don't see why he wouldn't opt to using something that can null their attacks if they're stronger than him.
But I don't know enough about Akuma to know how active he does it.
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Tsunade's good some dangerous techniques, but Akuma's isn't lacking either.
The Shun Goku Satsu is also giving him an instant victory, and despite it not being his first move most of the times, he is known for using it the moment he wants to get rid of someone quickly (like Bison and Gouken), and the chances of him using it increase if he turns into Shin Akuma and/or the moment he notices Tsunade's actually physically stronger than him and is able to use weird powers, and he can easily figure out the former by sensing her ki.
The Rakan isn't the only way he has to evade attacks, his mobility and skill would work as well, and the Ashura Senku makes him intangible and can be used to both approach and evade the enemy.
Akuma also has projectiles which apparently give him the range advantage (I don't know if Tsunade has ranged options, her profile doesn't cover that). On top of projectiles, which he is very skilled in using, he also possesses a couple of AoEs, with the most notable being the Sekia Kuretsuha, which is an omnidirectional pillar of fire (and if we want to address its heat, it should be at the very least comparable to a much inferior Ryu, who could turn a Seth clone to ashes in seconds).
Another defensive tool is the Kiai, which is basically an aura that damages close opponents while building up Akuma's ki and nullifying incoming projectiles.
His Kimonkai also works in a similar way, as it is a damaging aura that comes out of his body.
The Shun Goku Satsu is also giving him an instant victory, and despite it not being his first move most of the times, he is known for using it the moment he wants to get rid of someone quickly (like Bison and Gouken), and the chances of him using it increase if he turns into Shin Akuma and/or the moment he notices Tsunade's actually physically stronger than him and is able to use weird powers, and he can easily figure out the former by sensing her ki.
The Rakan isn't the only way he has to evade attacks, his mobility and skill would work as well, and the Ashura Senku makes him intangible and can be used to both approach and evade the enemy.
Akuma also has projectiles which apparently give him the range advantage (I don't know if Tsunade has ranged options, her profile doesn't cover that). On top of projectiles, which he is very skilled in using, he also possesses a couple of AoEs, with the most notable being the Sekia Kuretsuha, which is an omnidirectional pillar of fire (and if we want to address its heat, it should be at the very least comparable to a much inferior Ryu, who could turn a Seth clone to ashes in seconds).
Another defensive tool is the Kiai, which is basically an aura that damages close opponents while building up Akuma's ki and nullifying incoming projectiles.
His Kimonkai also works in a similar way, as it is a damaging aura that comes out of his body.
It's part of his moveset, we can safely assume he's going to do that whenever he feels necessary and in a good way, giving how much effort he puts in constantly train and improving his techniques.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,083
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Tsunade has npi
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I missed it, but how does that work? With what has she interacted?
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She doesn't use them much, because she's never really needed to. Her raw strength was more than enough to deal with her opponents. Also you're ignoring the fact that all of these moves wouldn't have been very effective against Madara due to the Susano'o, since they require a physical body with muscles and cells to affect. Context is key.
Also, you're underestimating Tsunade's ridiculous stamina, endurance, Pain tolerance, and regeneration.
She can withstand hours of fighting against the likes of Madara, while suffering from constant impalement through vital organs, AND constantly healing 4 other teammates using her own chakra (which translates to stamina). She's not going down nearly as easily as you think.
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She can affect souls with her Medical Ninjutsu.
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Thanks.
I've read that Medical Ninjutsu can also be used offensively, but do all of its applications work on souls? And wold the affect intangible bodies, considering that Akuma isn't a lingering soul, but a physical person phasing through things.
Tsunade's stamina and pain resistance are superior to Akuma's, but I doubt the entire fight will drag on long enough to make such aspects become relevant (at least stamina, pain endurance always helps).
I've read that Medical Ninjutsu can also be used offensively, but do all of its applications work on souls? And wold the affect intangible bodies, considering that Akuma isn't a lingering soul, but a physical person phasing through things.
Tsunade's stamina and pain resistance are superior to Akuma's, but I doubt the entire fight will drag on long enough to make such aspects become relevant (at least stamina, pain endurance always helps).
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,083
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Why would she need to use abilities here then? Madara has far more hax than Akuma yet she still continued with brute force. Only thing that's in her favor is stamina but Akuma has moves that can finish her off quicker. Actually the fact he was an edo should've been a reason for her to try using her abilities besides brute force but yet she continued. So no, Tsunade will keep punching and try to find ways to beat him with skill but her pulling out Katsuyu is definitely unlikely.
AdNiBN002
He/Him- 462
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The application does likely work on souls, it was implied that the Medical Ninjutsu that could be used to heal the damage to Orochimaru's soul was meant to kill him.
intangibility would likely not be affected however, given that everything we know about Obito's intangibility would indicate so.
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Just a note that Akuma's teleportation is a relic of the past when people couldn't decide what the Ashura Senku really wants, and because the fighting game community called it teleportation since the '90s for the sake of a facilitated communication.
I will add its removal to a future revision of assorted stuff, since it's pretty clear he moves around instead of teleporting.
I will add its removal to a future revision of assorted stuff, since it's pretty clear he moves around instead of teleporting.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,083
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is anything else outdated on his page?
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I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall right now.....
Dude, these powers DO NOT WORK against the Susano'o, which is the ability Madara constantly spammed against the Kage.
Against Orochimaru and Kabuto (aka her only other fight in the series), she was perfectly willing to use these abilities.
The reason she'll use them against Akuma is that her punches will become nullified, so it's a bit of a stretch to say that someone with Tsunade's intelligence would keep using a strategy that isn't the least bit effective.
The same technique can both be used offensively and for healing purposes. What differentiates them is Tsunade's "intent".
Will that work here? Not sure. If there's an inherent difference between spiritual intangibility and whatever Akuma does, then I guess it won't really work.
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Obito's not actually intangible though. He just teleports parts of his body to create the illusion of intangibility.
Arkenis
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I understand where you're coming from but my problem is the fact that she won't just start off with other abilities, she will engage in h2h and she'll end up being overwhelmed by his barrage of attacks which stun her.
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Arkenis
They/Them- 17,083
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he does have intangibility on his page, this point makes sense so should be removed from his page but its not too important
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No, just that and his running speed.
As the power and he description of his focus move say.
If Akuma manages to land a string of hits without leaving Tsunade time to recover, she's gonna be stunned for awhile, and his focus attack would make her crumple and be open to other attacks if it lands.
There is, actually.
Souls do exist in the Street Fighter universe, and M. Bison's soul is known for lingering around even when the body is dead.
Akuma's technique is different, his whole physical body becomes intangible while performing the move.
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