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i think high 6-c
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Gouketsu Upgrade?
- Thread starter Kachon123
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- one-punch man
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Wasn't the meteor itself only 6-C?
If it's giving higher results, then something must be off since Saitama's punch only broke it up without fully mitigating the impact.
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- Thread starter
- #123
It's not in a blog, so I have no way of checking the full calc step-by-step, but I assume it was calced by the space-view in the chapter.
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The meteor isnt limited to be 6-c we dont know how much else it could have destroyed or what kind of destruction, the current calc is a reasonable lowball given the lack of info
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why'd it get downgraded again when it can destroy a country sized city completely and more?
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Unfortunately, Genos wasn't enough
I do agree scaling Gouketsu to the Meteor in the end is really iffy, but not based on the AoE arguments above
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Saitama didn't nullify all of the meteor's kinetic energy, just a large portion. Even Genos notes this directly.
He'd still be possibly/likely Island level, but I think if we do add this the justification should be something like (Genos found his strength somewhat reminiscent of Saitama, whom he witnessed nullifying most of the meteor's impact energy, even believing that the latter needed to team up with multiple heroes to defeat him as safely as possible)
Anyway, I think some good supporting evidence is that Genos visualised Tatsumaki, who repelled bullets from Boros' ship, being needed to fight Gouketsu as safely as possible alongside multiple heroes.
I saw a problem when the meteor was Small Country level, but this is orders of magnitude more reasonable.
He'd still be possibly/likely Island level, but I think if we do add this the justification should be something like (Genos found his strength somewhat reminiscent of Saitama, whom he witnessed nullifying most of the meteor's impact energy, even believing that the latter needed to team up with multiple heroes to defeat him as safely as possible)
Anyway, I think some good supporting evidence is that Genos visualised Tatsumaki, who repelled bullets from Boros' ship, being needed to fight Gouketsu as safely as possible alongside multiple heroes.
I saw a problem when the meteor was Small Country level, but this is orders of magnitude more reasonable.
King
He/Him- 800
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Now Genos is our only measure for scaling? The same Genos who can't measure Psykorochi ? Does that make her immeasurable? No. right? it was just a hype statement.
Similarly, Genos also considered Garou's attack on the cadres to be very high energy. Does that scale Garou above current Genos? Wouldn't make sense.
You're just blowing up a hype statement to scaling level.
Similarly, Genos also considered Garou's attack on the cadres to be very high energy. Does that scale Garou above current Genos? Wouldn't make sense.
You're just blowing up a hype statement to scaling level.
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What?
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Or the energy is too high for him to actually measure it with his sensors.
Who says that means he's higher. Calling someone powerful doesn't mean they're equal to you. Gouketsu himself calls Bakuzan, someone far inferior to him, a very powerful monster.
Cubari translators aren't 100% accurate, such as claiming that Flashy Flashy is FTL, so I checked the raws.
他の怪人とは スケールが違うな
Normal or regular isn't mentioned. However, the kanji other (他の) is mentioned. So it translates more closely to 'The scale is different from other monsters.'
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Uh… Garou does scale above current Genos lol.
King
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Yeah, but that's what makes him so unreliable. He went up against her only a few moments later and even overpowered her using his True Spiral Incineration Canon. So, that would mean Genos can't even measure his own energy levels properly.
See, that's exactly why statements like these aren't very believable. Bakuzan is weak, very weak by Dragon standards to the point he might even be the weakest Dragon after withered Sprout.
Genos' energy measuring is like scouters in DBZ. Their measurements get wacky the more stronger the enemy gets.
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- Thread starter
- #135
...?
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ByAsura is ByAsura. KingTempest is KingTempest
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- Thread starter
- #137
The 10 second mode was obviously vastly above anything his body can contain, hence why it's called 10 seconds mode, he can only handle it for 10 seconds. The energy output is way too high for his body.
What? Genos' statements, AFAIK, have never been wrong/haven't been proved wrong. The Garou example you used doesn't mean anything. Garou is obviously a high powered individual. He is way stronger and faster than Genos.
Do you have any proof? Or is this more BS like the rest of the things you've said thus far?
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- #138
We love them both.
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Firstly, Psykos' feat and the meteor are on two massively different scales. Even if you just measure the feat itself with potential energy instead of scaling it directly to her, it's a gap of over 30,000 times. If we do use her actual ratings via scaling, it increases to over 16 billion.
Secondly, sensing the power of an attack and being able to monitor your own power levels (assuming Genos is even capable of monitoring the full power of his 10 seconds mode) are two completely incomparable things. It's like claiming the sensors of a reactor should be capable of determining the power of a nuclear explosion based on the seismic activity it creates.
You do realise that Dragon levels, no matter where they stand in the hierarchy of that tier (which can be levelling a city to anything under global feats), are inherently very powerful. They're far stronger than most monsters and some S-Classes, and that was Gouketsu's point.
Secondly, sensing the power of an attack and being able to monitor your own power levels (assuming Genos is even capable of monitoring the full power of his 10 seconds mode) are two completely incomparable things. It's like claiming the sensors of a reactor should be capable of determining the power of a nuclear explosion based on the seismic activity it creates.
You do realise that Dragon levels, no matter where they stand in the hierarchy of that tier (which can be levelling a city to anything under global feats), are inherently very powerful. They're far stronger than most monsters and some S-Classes, and that was Gouketsu's point.
Thanks for the compliment, but it'll age badly if my translation is debunked.
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Why was the meteor downgraded again? Cuz island level doesn't make sense when it can completely wipe a country sized city off the map, and more.
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The earthquake formula wasn't applicable to this situation.
Anyway, the actual tier for Country level and Small Country level is based on destroying much larger countries than anything Z-City is comparable to (I think it's based on Japan, but I might be wrong).
You could really say anything is island-sized or country-sized if you put your mind to it. For example, the Monaco and the Vatican are well under 1000 hectares, while Australia can be classified as a country and island.
Here's a list of islands by area. The sizes of these islands stops becoming larger than Z-City after Sicily.
Anyway, the actual tier for Country level and Small Country level is based on destroying much larger countries than anything Z-City is comparable to (I think it's based on Japan, but I might be wrong).
You could really say anything is island-sized or country-sized if you put your mind to it. For example, the Monaco and the Vatican are well under 1000 hectares, while Australia can be classified as a country and island.
Here's a list of islands by area. The sizes of these islands stops becoming larger than Z-City after Sicily.
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King
He/Him- 800
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BTW, why didn't we use KE for the meteor?
King
He/Him- 800
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Why would it be inconsiderable just cause it's low? You don't need to vaporize a whole city in order to cause mass destruction. I'm against using the explosion method purely because of the guidelines on the calculations page.
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It's based on levelling the city with an explosion, which is effectively the bare minimum. It's not anywhere near even fragmentation, let alone vaporization. It's just flattening structures over the land area.
Also, Qwasedf's calculation was based on the higher-end of known densities of meteors (I believe the density was 8,000 kg/m^3) and 11 km/s. This meteor was made of a special material with extraordinarily high density and was moving at an unknown speed.
Edit: I checked, and we originally used an identical result for the profile.
Also, Qwasedf's calculation was based on the higher-end of known densities of meteors (I believe the density was 8,000 kg/m^3) and 11 km/s. This meteor was made of a special material with extraordinarily high density and was moving at an unknown speed.
Edit: I checked, and we originally used an identical result for the profile.
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Uh, I guess this can work? I know we work by attack potency and not destruction capacity so I will drop that argument.
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Since Homeless Emperor (a MA cadre like Gouketsu) is 6-C I don't see why Gouketsu and those that scale to him being on that level would be an outlier.
Even if it's a possibly rating, I think this absolutely should be added considering that Genos wouldn't have considered Saitama + S Class heroes to be the "safe way" to kill Gouketsu if he didn't think Gouketsu's punch was stronger than the Meteor that Saitama fragmented, which Genos knew the power of with nothing contradicting that.
Even if it's a possibly rating, I think this absolutely should be added considering that Genos wouldn't have considered Saitama + S Class heroes to be the "safe way" to kill Gouketsu if he didn't think Gouketsu's punch was stronger than the Meteor that Saitama fragmented, which Genos knew the power of with nothing contradicting that.
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No. It needs more support. This is still a huge upgrade and it is based on so little evidence.
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Even I don't really agree with it, I was just giving some suggestions if we do end up adding this.
Overall, it's a little high, but not too unreasonable. The supposed debunks of this feat are are more unreasonable, except for the argument that this is an outlier.
Overall, it's a little high, but not too unreasonable. The supposed debunks of this feat are are more unreasonable, except for the argument that this is an outlier.
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Isn't it quality or quantity when it comes to evidence in CRTs i.e. it's more important for the evidence to not be contradicted rather than the quantity of evidence?
Because the last time I checked:
Evidence that isn't contradicted by anything > evidence that doesn't smoothly fit in the narrative or is contradicted
How could it be an outlier when we already have a 6-C character of the same rank in the MA as Gouketsu.
An outlier needs to be proven. There needs to be some sort of contradiction. And there just isn't in this case.
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Debunks like Genos had so little time actually encountering Gouketsu that he can't make a fair assessment of his abilities? What was his experience? A single punch that left him pasted in the sidewalk?
So Genos being beaten by Gouketsu and thinking that too be safe Saitama would need to fight him with other S-Class heroes means that that alone is enough for us to scale him to the value of the meteor?
I'd only consider this reasonable if Genos made a direct comparison between Gouketsu and the meteor, like how he made a comparison between himself and the meteor later on in the arc.
I think it's much more reasonable to scale Gouketsu based on his own feats and fights rather than go with the most high-end interpretation of him possible.
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Yes, and? How's that relevant? You're just assuming Genos can't measure his capabilities based on the damage he inflicted on him. If anything, Gouketsu had no sign of letting loose against Genos, so he could be stronger than predicted.
Potentially, which is why everyone here thinks it should get a likely/possibly.
Which is, again, why everyone here thinks it should get a likely/possibly.
What feats? We have no calculations, and the scaling is just him being far stronger than everyone except Saitama. Even you said Genos' EC statement isn't good enough for scaling, so who does he really scale to?
Potentially, which is why everyone here thinks it should get a likely/possibly.
Which is, again, why everyone here thinks it should get a likely/possibly.
What feats? We have no calculations, and the scaling is just him being far stronger than everyone except Saitama. Even you said Genos' EC statement isn't good enough for scaling, so who does he really scale to?
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- Thread starter
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That's also what I believe. I will change the OP.
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So do you agree on removing that bit from Elder Centipede's profile?
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I'm neutral on it, but leaning towards agreeing. I've never found that solid evidence. He could just be wondering if there's monsters capable of utterly outclassing him.
Edit: I remember him implying he could at least stop himself from getting one-shot by Gouketsu. This might debunk that and put a huge hole in the meteor scaling.
Edit 2: Nah, just misremembering something.
Did you see my point on the Vaccine Man thing, by the way?
Edit: I remember him implying he could at least stop himself from getting one-shot by Gouketsu. This might debunk that and put a huge hole in the meteor scaling.
Edit 2: Nah, just misremembering something.
Did you see my point on the Vaccine Man thing, by the way?
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This seems a little headcanony. We don't have a standard for what timeframes of encounters count towards determining whether a statement stemming from that encounter is valid or not.
The point is that Genos has seen Saitama dispose of the meteor easily and by himself yet with Gouketsu Genos thought it would be best if Saitama had support from S-Class heroes. If there was another meteor identical to the one Saitama destroyed, Genos wouldn't have said what he did about Gouketsu as he knows Saitama could easily handle it himself.
I don't see how this demand to be spoonfed something really specific debunks Genos' statement about Gouketsu.
Gouketsu is a short-lived character. He was there to cause some troble and be one punched by Saitama. Yet it's clear that ONE and Murata intended him to be powerful beyond just his feats considering the lengths they went to have many different characters say he's a big deal.
- Genos' statement about him.
- Suiryu saying he was on a whole other level than Bakuzan (a Dragon level monster)
- Gyoro Gyoro saying that many S-Class heroes would be too much for even Gouketsu to handle.
- Gyoro Gyoro being really surprised by Gouketsu being defeated and not being able to think of who could've done this despite having a lot of info on the S-Class.
- Hellfire and Gale stating that the power gap left by Gouketsu and EC was too big to be filled by the inclusion of Garou into the MA.
- Gyoro Gyoro assuming that the Hero Association have some secret weapon in their arsenal due to Gouketsu dying (as in the eyes of the HA and MA King defeated EC so GG wouldn't consider EC's defeat as due to this "secret weapon"). Gyoro Gyoro even says that this secret weapon may be above the S-Class.
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You mean this?
I still don't consider it particularly good scaling from Vaccine Man to EC because scale can be referring to the fact that Elder Centipede is one of the biggest monsters seen so far in the series.
Or it could be referring to a comparison between him and all of the other monsters who are rampaging across the cities at the same time as Elder Centipede, instead of all monsters in the history of forever.
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I suppose it could refer to size.
I might have to do some more calculations some time.
By the way, I've been trying to get these (non-OPM related) calculations evaluated for months. Could you take a look if you have the time/effort?
I might have to do some more calculations some time.
By the way, I've been trying to get these (non-OPM related) calculations evaluated for months. Could you take a look if you have the time/effort?
To be fair, Gouketsu would be over 2-4x stronger than Homeless Emperor's blast that terrified Black Sperm and far surpasses Darkshine if this were the case.
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I see no contradiction with that.
Darkshine fought Kabuto for 15 minutes so they were relative. Meanwhile Genos states that Gouketsu is above that.
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