Gon vs Eren (12-0-0)

[GodlyCharmander]

Gon is an extremely skilled fighter even when ignoring his Nen abilities, he is notorious for using his opponents own mentality against them, luring them into traps or even forcing them to dodge a certain way to get them clean.

So this is just Energy Control, knowing how people tend to react and setting a trap based on psychology is just Energy Control, got it

His intelligence in battle is quite high, as he is able to figure out the logistics behind a certain move after looking at it once or twice, being able to come up with a counter on the spot.

Ah, yes, yes, using your vague knowledge of the concepts of the energy of your universe, and then applying it when seeing a vague movement/aspect of it to figure out exactly how it works is surely just a matter of Energy Control!

Using nothing but his strength and skill, he managed to outsmart Hisoka, who himself is a Battle Genius. Hisoka managed to fool his opponent into thinking he has regeneration using his gum powers, yet, Gon was able to outsmart him.

Ah yes, effectively using a stone tablet from the right to get a hit in from someone monstrously skilled is nothing but controlling your energy.

Gon also managed to deal with much, MUCH faster Opponents using his abilities, going as far as reading their moves with ease using his luring tactics.

Cool example of energy control right here. By merely controlling your energy better, you can:

• Use the opponent's knowledge of your power against him.
• Manage to deal with faster opponent using your abilities.
• Read their movements.

Wow, Energy Control sure sounds like being skillful in a fight, you know!

It is also notable that Gon's speed and strength grows at extraordinary speeds, so while his strength catches up to Eren, his speed will eventually leave him in the dust.

Accelerated Development is caused by knowing how to control your energy??!!?!?! Oh my god!

Gon's skill should also be above Canary who managed to beat a Blacklist Hunter (who should dwarf any non-hunter martial artist in skill and strength) and 100 men at the same time at the age of 10.

I didn't know you needed to control your energy to deal with a large amount of unfathomably skilled bandits at the same time!! I'm shocked

"He can deal with agile oppo-" shoo shoo! To the point where they can disappear from sight? Btw, this was against Netero, who is hundreds of times faster than Gon at this point, so not a speed feat, it's just his agility. Any stomp, punch, kick, would be read by Gon's Analytical Prediction quite easily.

Ah, another outstanding feat of Energy Control from nenless Gon, nice

Also a problem for Eren is Gon's stamina. He managed to take a beating from someone several times stronger than him for three hours when said person could easily break his arm, and speedblitz him.

Ah, yes, what a great feat of Energy Control from nenless Gon.

Yes. I am, and will be petty af. This dude said I was ignorant on HxH.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

...Did you just respond to yourself?

 

[SuperStar]

 

[GodlyCharmander]

...Did you just respond to yourself?

Do you know how to read the room?

You said half of the shit I listed was Energy Control with no bearings on skill. I went through my reply, listing the skill feats one by one, and saying they are energy control sarcastically to mock this idea.

Having to explain basic sarcasm makes me lose hope for this debate to be of any significance for the decision of the thread.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes. I am, and will be petty af. This dude said I was ignorant on HxH.

I can just throw Gon up against Garou or someone else equally fun and not at all hellish and see how that goes if thats how you want to be

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I can just throw Gon up against Garou or someone else equally fun and not at all hellish and see how that goes if thats how you want to be

It's not that deep. Garou skill and stat stomps Gon, btw.

Just argue for Eren, don't try to undermine Gon's skill or you'll just be clowned on man...

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It's not that deep. Garou skill and stat stomps Gon, btw.

You sure? Looking at their profiles they share tiers and your advocation for Gon's skill says otherwise

 

[Phoenks]

Why the **** is Garou being brought up ? ? ? ?

Bro Weekly lol, you gotta debate for Eren, not Garou. This ain't his match.

 

[azontr]

Overflowing with goblin type energy rn.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Bro has no time to debate for Eren, but has time to debate for Garou for no reason

Anyway, it was 2 or 3 votes for Gon, if I'm not mistaken?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Eren is in no way, shape or form even remotely skilled in comparison to Gon Freecs.
Gon is an extremely skilled fighter even when ignoring his Nen abilities, he is notorious for using his opponents own mentality against them, luring them into traps or even forcing them to dodge a certain way to get them clean. His intelligence in battle is quite high, as he is able to figure out the logistics behind a certain move after looking at it once or twice, being able to come up with a counter on the spot. Using nothing but his strength and skill, he managed to outsmart Hisoka, who himself is a Battle Genius. Hisoka managed to fool his opponent into thinking he has regeneration using his gum powers, yet, Gon was able to outsmart him. Gon also managed to deal with much, MUCH faster Opponents using his abilities, going as far as reading their moves with ease using his luring tactics. Thus, unless Theory's attacks are unpredictable or too complex, Gon is likely able to predict his moves, and use tactics to keep the battle going, using his agility with a smaller body to slowly but surely catching up to Eren's Hardening, which is not even 1.5x above his power (Gon is ~45 Tons);

Alright, i'll concede on him having more combat skill than Eren (Not more than the rest of AoT though, Levi alone is more skilled than 95% of that verse), but Eren is absolutely a better tactician. The guy has orchestrated global wars and planned events through space-time, turned his allies against each other on multiple occasions, tricked his closest friends into thinking they had powers they didnt, hell, the only reason they were even able to fight him in the end was because of his own ideals preventing him from just nullifying all of their powers, he would have easily won everything if not for that. Theres a reason why he is equated with Lelouch and Light Yagami as some of the most brilliant strategists in anime.

It is also notable that Gon's speed and strength grows at extraordinary speeds, so while his strength catches up to Eren, his speed will eventually leave him in the dust.

Gon's skill should also be above Canary who managed to beat a Blacklist Hunter (who should dwarf any non-hunter martial artist in skill and strength) and 100 men at the same time at the age of 10.

I mean if thats the metric, Eren nearly beat both Mikasa and Levi in the final battle, with them both having the composite skill of an entire race of warriors who were genetically modified to be the most skilled martial artists on the planet

"He can deal with agile oppo-" shoo shoo! To the point where they can disappear from sight?

Yes, when the survey corps use their ODM gear to move around they are effectively invisible to Titans, with the Titans canonically only ever tagging them through sheer luck or by catching them off guard

Gon is also capable of using Ryu and Ko, Ryu is the ability to focus your aura in a specific portion of your body, which usually carries around 10% of said aura on it. By increasing it, Gon can make his durability several times stronger. Ko is the ability like Ryu, but giving 100% of your aura to a point of your body, leaving the rest with 0%, this increases the durability of the portion by ten times, but leaves all your body with subpar resistance. And to stop a move from Eren's Hardening, Gon would need no more than 20% of his aura, or around 89 Tons.

Not sure if this was meant to be a skill feat or something, but that wouldnt stop Eren's Hardening. Eren's scaling chain is: Reiner (73 tons) <<< Pre-Timeskip Eren's Hardening (Easily shattered Reiner's armor when Eren punching Reiner hard enough to reduce his own arms to viscera couldnt even crack it) < Post-Timeskip Eren's Hardening <<<<< Post-Warhammer Titan Absorption Eren (the previous warhammer titan casually oneshot Eren through his Hardening, and has hardening that Eren in his Attack Titan form couldnt even scratch, Eren then absorbed the Warhammer Titan and added its increased durability to his own) << Armin's Colossus Titan < Post-Rumbling Titan

Honestly Eren in his last two keys should be 8-A...

How do you "hard counter" skill? I never said Gon would do exactly what he did against Hisoka or Pitou, I said he has managed to do these skillful tactics and would be able to perform stuff on this level in this fight. The only way to hard counter his skillset would be having comparable or greater skill, which he objectively doesn't have. I'm also curious on how you'll prove Eren hard counters great Accelerated Development.

An overwhelming power advantage, experience fighting opponents with a similar skillset, better stamina, all things Eren has

Also a problem for Eren is Gon's stamina. He managed to take a beating from someone several times stronger than him for three hours when said person could easily break his arm, and speedblitz him.

Gon would need to wear him down.

Unlikely to happen, Eren in this key can function for multiple days non-stop without rest, and even in his early keys he was able to function for two days while constantly making new Titan bodies to seal holes in the Walls, as well as scaling to people like Annie who can stay in her titan form in a full sprint for over 24 hours without rest. And this isnt even counting Eren's regenerative abilities.

His Hardening will run out, and then Gon's attacks will absolutely screw him over.

...My guy, hardening isnt a limited resource for Eren, its part of his body, explicitly so because he has the Warhammer Titan's power which is entirely made of Hardening, which then regenerates as Eren does. Hell, Eren can create an entire new body at will if he wants to.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Alright, i'll concede on him having more combat skill than Eren

That's all I really care about.

Not more than the rest of AoT though, Levi alone is more skilled than 95% of that verse.

Oh brother. Do not pick a fight you can't win. I won't even bring up Meruem, or Chrollo. Hisoka alone skill stomps the entirety of the verse, please stop.

but Eren is absolutely a better tactician.

The guy has orchestrated global wars and planned events through space-time

"through space-time"? Why you using verbose? How else do you plan if not for the future, dummy?

Anyway, tactical skills on how to handle a war wouldn't be relevant in one-on-one combat. So this is moot.

Turned his allies against each other on multiple occasions, tricked his closest friends into thinking they had powers they didnt, hell, the only reason they were even able to fight him in the end was because of his own ideals preventing him from just nullifying all of their powers, he would have easily won everything if not for that.

Being a good manipulator is not playing a factor in this match. What narrative are you trying to push here? What are you saying, what does Eren do with this skillset in a scenario where they are useless? Explain.

Theres a reason why he is equated with Lelouch and Light Yagami as some of the most brilliant strategists in anime.

Should I laugh, or?... Comparing him to Light is already humorous, but Lelouch? Christ.

I mean if thats the metric, Eren nearly beat both Mikasa and Levi in the final battle, with them both having the composite skill of an entire race of warriors who were genetically modified to be the most skilled martial artists on the planet

Outstanding. Have they shown any skill on this level in their fights? No? Then you're not scaling them to "an entire race" if they haven't defeated or outskilled all the race simultaneously because that doesn't even make any sense in the first place.

Yes, when the survey corps use their ODM gear to move around they are effectively invisible to Titans, with the Titans canonically only ever tagging them through sheer luck or by catching them off guard

[Citation needed]

Not sure if this was meant to be a skill feat or something, but that wouldnt stop Eren's Hardening. Eren's scaling chain is: Reiner (73 tons) <<< Pre-Timeskip Eren's Hardening (Easily shattered Reiner's armor when Eren punching Reiner hard enough to reduce his own arms to viscera couldnt even crack it) < Post-Timeskip Eren's Hardening <<<<< Post-Warhammer Titan Absorption Eren (the previous warhammer titan casually oneshot Eren through his Hardening, and has hardening that Eren in his Attack Titan form couldnt even scratch, Eren then absorbed the Warhammer Titan and added its increased durability to his own) << Armin's Colossus Titan < Post-Rumbling Titan

Honestly Eren in his last two keys should be 8-A...

It likely should, but then with upscaling, he loses "at least", and becomes full-on 100 Tons, meaning anyone above that would be objectively stronger than him.

An overwhelming power advantage, experience fighting opponents with a similar skillset, better stamina, all things Eren has

Gon is 41.85 Tons with 10% Aura, he can go up to 418.5 Tons with his Ko, for both offense and defense. Eren doesn't have a power advantage at all

This is why I love Nen.

Eren in this key can function for multiple days non-stop without rest

"Fuction for days" /=/ "Fighting for days"

I can function for days without rest. This is either a non-feat or you just worded it poorly.

and even in his early keys he was able to function for two days while constantly making new Titan bodies to seal holes in the Walls.

Same as before. Function and Working for X amount of time is inherently different from fighting and sustaining damage for a long period of time. Regen doesn't cover fatigue.

as well as scaling to people like Annie who can stay in her titan form in a full sprint for over 24 hours without rest.

Normal people can do that. For 80 hours even.

...My guy, hardening isnt a limited resource for Eren, its part of his body, explicitly so because he has the Warhammer Titan's power which is entirely made of Hardening, which then regenerates as Eren does. Hell, Eren can create an entire new body at will if he wants to.

His profile states his Hardening is, first, selective, and second: "Constant, wide-scale use of his Hardening can overwhelm him and make him weak.".

 

[Phoenks]

NGL when bro said he was comparable to Light and Lelouch I started laughing hysterically.

I've literally never heard anyone put him in the same conversation as them. Weekly is wilding

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Since many said to be waiting for Weekly reply I didn't counted votes, so now that he did guess I will begin to count them, so any vote after his answer?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Since many said to be waiting for Weekly reply I didn't counted votes, so now that he did guess I will begin to count them, so any vote after his answer?

Two for Gon, mine and Cisco's.

I'm also fairly sure Uruguay

Can someone else confirm if the constant use of Hardening weakens Eren or not? It's on his profile

Regardless, I don't think this will be a problem for Gon. His Nen attacks are invisible, his Pa is enough to knock him back, Janken Rock probably will **** him over.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Since many said to be waiting for Weekly reply I didn't counted votes, so now that he did guess I will begin to count them, so any vote after his answer?

I did respond, and am currently writing up a counter to Charmander's response.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

NGL when bro said he was comparable to Light and Lelouch I started laughing hysterically.

I've literally never heard anyone put him in the same conversation as them. Weekly is wilding

Thats rathr insulting seeing as a LOT of people have them in the same tier intelligence-wise

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Thats rathr insulting seeing as a LOT of people have them in the same tier intelligence-wise

I mean, I can see why some people would think that since Eren manipulated several people and large-scale events which were all done in order to achieve his master plan of the Rumbling. This is similar to the way that Light worked to kill L and everyone who knew about the Death Note, as well as Lelouch's methods of fighting Britannia and Zero Requiem. However, Eren's tactics and plans were never nearly as intricate as Lelouch or Light. Both of them worked on several stages, manipulating several people in political positions, using the emotions of their opponents against them, playing the long-game against several odds. I never really saw Eren display real genius intellect: he was definitely gifted, but not at the chess-mastery level of characters like Light and Lelouch.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

That's all I really care about.

Oh brother. Do not pick a fight you can't win. I won't even bring up Meruem, or Chrollo. Hisoka alone skill stomps the entirety of the verse, please stop.

I dont, thats why i'm picking this fight, because i can win

"through space-time"? Why you using verbose? How else do you plan if not for the future, dummy?

Oh boy, so youve never read AoT huh. Eren with the power of the Founding Titan traveled through space and time via the Coordinate to orchestrate every moment in the past that lead him to that specific moment to ensure he would obtain the Founding Titan's power. Everything single that happened in AoT was a result of Eren orchestrating it from the Coordinate.

Anyway, tactical skills on how to handle a war wouldn't be relevant in one-on-one combat. So this is moot.

Being a good manipulator is not playing a factor in this match. What narrative are you trying to push here? What are you saying, what does Eren do with this skillset in a scenario where they are useless? Explain.

I mean youre the one who brought up tactics so

Should I laugh, or?... Comparing him to Light is already humorous, but Lelouch? Christ.

Why would you laugh at the truth?

Outstanding. Have they shown any skill on this level in their fights? No? Then you're not scaling them to "an entire race" if they haven't defeated or outskilled all the race simultaneously because that doesn't even make any sense in the first place.

They have, yes

It likely should, but then with upscaling, he loses "at least", and becomes full-on 100 Tons, meaning anyone above that would be objectively stronger than him.

Gon is 41.85 Tons with 10% Aura, he can go up to 418.5 Tons with his Ko, for both offense and defense. Eren doesn't have a power advantage at all

Cool? Unless youre arguing Gon can go 8-A in this fight thats irrelevant

This is why I love Nen.

"Fuction for days" /=/ "Fighting for days"

I can function for days without rest. This is either a non-feat or you just worded it poorly.

He was fighting for days and scales to people who can fight for days as well.

His profile states his Hardening is, first, selective, and second: "Constant, wide-scale use of his Hardening can overwhelm him and make him weak.".

This only applies to his pre-timeskip self, and by 'constant, wide scale use' its referring to him in his pre-timeskip using hardening to harden his titan's entire body to use it as a plug in the wall to seal holes. After getting the warhammer titan that doesnt apply as his entire body is Hardening and he can manipulate Hardening at will.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Both of them worked on several stages, manipulating several people in political positions,

Historia, the Marleyan government, the Yeagerists,

using the emotions of their opponents against them,

His entire arc with Mikasa involved him manipulating her into thinking that she was bound to protect him against her own will when she wasnt, as well as turning his allies against each other and making them fight their own dead friends as titan shifters when they attacked the Founding Titan

playing the long-game against several odds.

His entire life was the long game, he even manipulated everything about his father stealing the Attack and Founding Titan

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I dont, thats why i'm picking this fight, because i can win. Why would you laugh at the truth?

Mhm, good on you buddy. Now please focus on the debate at hand.

Oh boy, so youve never read AoT huh. Eren with the power of the Founding Titan traveled through space and time via the Coordinate to orchestrate every moment in the past that lead him to that specific moment to ensure he would obtain the Founding Titan's power. Everything single that happened in AoT was a result of Eren orchestrating it from the Coordinate.

Cool.

I mean youre the one who brought up tactics so

Luring Tatics using one's own mentality and knowledge of your abilities in the midst of hand to hand Combat is useful in battle. Knowing how to go about a war isn't.

They have, yes.

[Citation needed]

And in case you need me to explain this, I'm asking for proof.

Cool? Unless youre arguing Gon can go 8-A in this fight thats irrelevant.

418.5 Tons is nearly 8-A+, yes, Gon can go "up to 8-A" via focusing his Nen.

He was fighting for days and scales to people who can fight for days as well.

[Citation needed]

This only applies to his pre-timeskip self, and by 'constant, wide scale use' its referring to him in his pre-timeskip using hardening to harden his titan's entire body to use it as a plug in the wall to seal holes. After getting the warhammer titan that doesnt apply as his entire body is Hardening and he can manipulate Hardening at will.

If he is constantly in hardening, why does he have a "hardening" state in his AP section? Wouldn't that be his base form at this point?

Plus, the weakness doesn't update this information whatsoever. Since you might be extremely biased in favor of Eren, I'd like to ask other supporters about it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If Gon is allowed to go up to 8-A+ in this fight then its a massive stomp

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If he is constantly in hardening, why does he have a "hardening" state in his AP section? Wouldn't that be his base form at this point?

Plus, the weakness doesn't update this information whatsoever. Since you might be extremely biased in favor of Eren, I'd like to ask other supporters about it.

Looking at Eren's profile he's missing a lot of information, im working on a cleanup for his page atm

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I mean, if the amps are really a problem then I can restrict them, I just thought that was unnecessary since the amp isn't a one-shot one (from the previous comment Eren seem to basically be around 100 tons so against it would be a 4.18x difference) and it have the weakness to leave the rest of Gon body vulnerable (since there is no aura protecting it).

 

[GodlyCharmander]

If Gon is allowed to go up to 8-A+ in this fight then its a massive stomp

It's 418.5 Tons, far from a stomp, it's not even 5x 100 Tons. It's using Ko, which sacrifices his durability in all parts of his body with the exception of the one he enhanced with Ko. Ryu is Ko, but using different aura percentages. Gon wouldn't use Ko with the exception of his technique, Jajanken.
It's high-risk high-reward, if Eren knew his weakness, he would be able to counter Ko easily.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I mean, if the amps are really a problem then I can restrict them, I just thought that was unnecessary since the amp isn't a one-shot one (from the previous comment Eren seem to basically be around 100 tons so against it would be a 4.18x difference) and it have the weakness to leave the rest of Gon body vulnerable (since there is no aura protecting it).

It's not an amp, so it cannot be restricted for matches that are going on the profiles

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

It's not an amp, so it cannot be restricted for matches that are going on the profiles

Is an amp though, just one that work in a single part of the body, it also can be perfectly restricted since it reach another tier.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Is an amp though, just one that work in a single part of the body, it also can be perfectly restricted since it reach another tier.

It's literally just his aura being displaced. It is not an amp. Jajanken is an amp.

 

[azontr]

If said Aura Displacement gives him more attack power, then it's in amp.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

If said Aura Displacement gives him more attack power, then it's in amp.

That's like saying muscle control is an amp, it isn't. You can't restrict a hax or how he uses his Nen, that doesn't even make sense.
Restricting a specific aspect of Nen is also not allowed, you either restrict it altogether, or don't. (Even then, I believe only transformations are allowed to be restricted in Vs Matches)

 

[azontr]

I don't seem to understand your meaning. If Ryu and Ko increase his strength it is an amplifier of strength.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

That's like saying muscle control is an amp, it isn't. You can't restrict a hax or how he uses his Nen, that doesn't even make sense.
Restricting a specific aspect of Nen is also not allowed, you either restrict it altogether, or don't. (Even then, I believe only transformations are allowed to be restricted in Vs Matches)

Anything with other tier can be restricted. As a practical example I could use characters with amps from Arifureta (like Hajime, Kouki or Shea), Mash, Deku, characters from fate, and in general whatever that have a higher tier can be restricted as stated in the versus rules:

It is not fine to restrict abilities in a versus matchup, implicitly or expressly. Matches that are arranged this way should not be added to the character profiles, as they don't involve their full potential, and are only intended for casual entertainment. An exception would be if the restricted ability/technique has a separate tier from the main one, and is one the character can consciously restrict themselves from using. In this case, the match can be added.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Anything with other tier can be restricted. As a practical example I could use characters with amps from Arifureta (like Hajime, Kouki or Shea), Mash, Deku, characters from fate, and in general whatever that have a higher tier can be restricted as stated in the versus rules:

Ryu and Ko does not fall under the category of ability (it's Nen, you'd have to restrict Nen, and thus, Gon would be a 9-B), nor does it fall under a technique. It's not a Hatsu, after all. (which is the capability of turning your Nen into a technique that fits one of five categories).

You may restrict Jajanken, you may not restrict how Nen behaves.

 

[azontr]

Ryu and Ko are applications of Nen, you can restrict certain applications of an energy system without completely shutting it down all-together.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Ryu and Ko are applications of Nen, you can restrict certain applications of an energy system without completely shutting it down all-together.

That doesn't make any sense. That's like restricting Chi Sensing.

Ryu and Ko are, in a simplistic way, the user moving it's aura around their body. They use it constantly while they fight, it's how they use Nen in a battle.

"You cannot use your aura in a particular way because it's inconvenient for the match" is not a fair assessment whatsoever. Just deem the match a stomp if you believe Eren is going to get solo'd by it. (which he won't, Ryu and Ko has gruesome consequences if its weakness are exploited)

 

[azontr]

Hey, I don't make the rules. By the site standard it is restrictable, but whether or not you deem that as something fair is something you can discuss freely with the OP at your discretion.

I'll wait a bit longer before voting.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

An exception would be if the restricted ability/technique has a separate tier from the main one, and is one the character can consciously restrict themselves from using.

8-B, up to 8-A with Ryu and Ko

1. Have a different tier
2. Gon can consciously chose to not use them and instead use his aura normally without using it in that specific way

Is something perfectly able to be restricted in a match.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Like, I still haven't even restricted it do to think that is unnecessary and wait for more input about if is really needed to restrict, but is a matter of fact that is something that can be restricted, you can go ask staff if you want to confirm.

 

[Chariot190]

That's like restricting Chi Sensing.

tbh you could restrict chi sensing if it also made you a higher tier when you used it.
The only higher tier things that can't be restricted are automatic things, the example used iirc was like Lucy from Elfen Lied, how if in danger her body automatically does wacky higher tier stuff without any cognizant effort or control and she actively can't stop it even if she wanted to.

Basically the requirement for being able to restrict things is 1. It's higher tier. 2. Can it be controlled? If the user can willingly decide not to use it, or basically, as long as it isn't automatic that can't be stopped, it can be restricted.
That was basically what the staff thread concluded.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

If I haven't voted already then Gon FRA.