Goku vs Vegeta Redux (3-7-0) (Grace)

[C2_of_Omegon]

ToP versions.
Location: Indestructible planet.
SBA otherwise

SSBKKx20 Goku: 3 (Tyranno223, Apotheosis69, Just_Butchering)

SSBE Vegeta: 7 (WarriorofMite, TegamiBachi25, ReaperAndBlues, XSOULOFCINDERX, Braking, Spinoirr, McFriesGuy075)

Jiren bodies both:

 

[WarriorofMite]

Both are similar in power and skill. It should come down to KK putting an extra amount of strain on Goku while SSBE seems to put none on Vegeta. Vegeta wins a long battle of attrition where KK eventually drains Goku and causes him to lose.

 

[TegamiBachi25]

Both are similar in power and skill. It should come down to KK putting an extra amount of strain on Goku while SSBE seems to put none on Vegeta. Vegeta wins a long battle of attrition where KK eventually drains Goku and causes him to lose.

Wasn't it stated KK20 doesn't even have that much of a drain on Goku anymore following the U7vU6 arc?

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Wasn't it stated KK20 doesn't even have that much of a drain on Goku anymore following the U7vU6 arc?

Yes, but the point would still be that Goku is stacking a technique on top of a transformation. SSB was noted to take up a quite bit of stamina by Whis, which is why Goku and Vegeta didn't start the ToP with it and tried to only use it when they had to. Goku may have reduced the drawbacks significantly and he isn't spending a lot of stamina per se but he would more than likely be spending more than Vegeta, whose transformation can't be any worse than SSB.

This fight is gonna be long because both Vegeta and Goku are basically equal in most ways that matter, so stamina conservation is gonna be key.

 

[TegamiBachi25]

I guess I'll vote for Vegeta then, since both are comparable but Vegeta can last longer in SSBE

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Geets FRA

 

[Apotheosis69]

Inconclusive, its clear in the narrative that they are absolutely equal in speed and power. Plus I do think SSBE does have a further strain on Vegeta's body than people think, call me crazy. Even if it doesn't, Goku is a much better fighter cus he is Extraordinary Genius while Vegeta is just Genius, so Goku can certainly find a way to circumnavigate that.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Vegeta FRA, also if for whatever reason they go for a beam clash and Vegeta uses the Final Flash then Goku is cooked. We all saw what that did to Jiren before Vegeta even unlocked SSBE.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Inconclusive, its clear in the narrative that they are absolutely equal in speed and power. Plus I do think SSBE does have a further strain on Vegeta's body than people think, call me crazy. Even if it doesn't, Goku is a much better fighter cus he is Extraordinary Genius while Vegeta is just Genius, so Goku can certainly find a way to circumnavigate that.

Narratively they are treated as equals in terms of skill.

 

[Braking]

Vegeta for the reasons above.

 

[Spinoirr]

Vegeta fra

Also SSBE doesn't drain stamina unlike Blue Kaioken times 20

 

[Tyranno223]

The Kaioken drain is minimal (tho likely still higher than SSBE). Goku in the ToP fight was regularly a more skilled combatant against Jiren (minus the time Vegeta got to see Goku go first) and has a lot more tricks up his sleave. Ki mines, hidden destructor disks, instant transmission, etc. Only thing Vegeta really has is stamina.

Goku win high-diff for me.

 

[Apotheosis69]

Honestly I agree with Tyranno FRA

Goku vote for me

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Vegetuh FRA

 

[Just_Butchering]

Yeah, while Vegeta definitely can exploit the strain that KK puts on Goku's body, Goku himself would be aware of that

The Kaioken drain is minimal (tho likely still higher than SSBE). Goku in the ToP fight was regularly a more skilled combatant against Jiren (minus the time Vegeta got to see Goku go first) and has a lot more tricks up his sleave. Ki mines, hidden destructor disks, instant transmission, etc. Only thing Vegeta really has is stamina.

Goku win high-diff for me.

and his few extra techniques/attack can definitely come in handy to try and end the fight quicker. Still, this is EXTREMELY close. But I'm more inclined to vote for Goku

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Let Grace begin!

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Vegeta would outlast Goku

 

[Tyranno223]

Alas that Vegeta's gonna win with ass win-cons.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Final Explosion sorta trumps any Ki Attack Goku can throw at Vegeta tho

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Final Explosion sorta trumps any Ki Attack Goku can throw at Vegeta tho

No way is Vegeta gonna use this on Goku, his pride won't let him

Besides, final flash already qualifies whr it comes higher stacking ki blasts I believe

 

[Tyranno223]

No way is Vegeta gonna use this on Goku, his pride won't let him

Besides, final flash already qualifies whr it comes higher stacking ki blasts I believe

Final Flash needs a long time to charge while sitting duck and unless he does that, it's just another Kamehameha.

Goku has far more variety and better battle iq feats, Vegeta just has better stamina. Destructo-disk is a one-shot (though in-character, it's unlikely to be used directly). Ki mines are a environmental advantage. Instant transmission makes dodging Vegeta's big ki attacks a cinche (like against Gohan). Goku can set up stationary ki blasts for traps, etc.

It's not even that relevant since Goku in this key only has noticeable drain when already exhausted.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Final Flash needs a long time to charge while sitting duck and unless he does that, it's just another Kamehameha.

Final explosion also needs charge time too, I was simply pointing out that Vegeta would be more likely to try a final flash than a final explosion

 

[Tyranno223]

Final explosion also needs charge time too, I was simply pointing out that Vegeta would be more likely to try a final flash than a final explosion

Ik, just pointing out that Final Flash is also not a game changer. Personal opinion, Vegeta seriously has nothing going for him here but stamina.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Ik, just pointing out that Final Flash is also not a game changer. Personal opinion, Vegeta seriously has nothing going for him here but stamina.

Stamina IS the reason Vegeta wins here

I stated that earlier when I gave my vote

 

[Tyranno223]

Stamina IS the reason Vegeta wins here

I stated that earlier when I gave my vote

And I have given multiple reasons why Goku has better win-cons. Just outlasting here isn't that good since Goku doesn't have notable stamina issues either. They both lasted the same duration (albeit Vegeta did a final explosion).

Goku has every other advantage. Variety, battlefield control, mobility (seriously, he dodges a lot with IT in the ToP. Gohan and Jiren for example, but there's others), one-shot attacks that don't neex ages to charge, etc.

Vegeta just has stamina.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Think the really powerful Destructo Disks do also need charge time, instantly throwing them ended up with Jiren catching them like a frisbee.

 

[Tyranno223]

Think the really powerful Destructo Disks do also need charge time, instantly throwing them ended up with Jiren catching them like a frisbee.

That's against Jiren. Destructo Disks are pretty quickly made every time.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

That's against Jiren. Destructo Disks are pretty quickly made every time.

Krillin charged both his effective Destructo Disks as far as I'm aware

 

[Tyranno223]

Krillin charged both his effective Destructo Disks as far as I'm aware

Namek Saga we don't really see the charge time, only Saiyan Saga was charged (iirc). Destructo Disk has always cut through almost everything, it only fails against immensely stronger foes.

Regardless, Goku has other wincons.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Vegeta FRA

 

[Tomfer]

The Kaioken drain is minimal (tho likely still higher than SSBE). Goku in the ToP fight was regularly a more skilled combatant against Jiren (minus the time Vegeta got to see Goku go first) and has a lot more tricks up his sleave. Ki mines, hidden destructor disks, instant transmission, etc. Only thing Vegeta really has is stamina.

Goku win high-diff for me.

Tyranno seems to make more sense to me tbf. I'll vote for Goku.

 

[WarriorofMite]

So what's the count here? Didn't we already have grace?

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

So what's the count here? Didn't we already have grace?

IIRC it was like 7-4. I've already had it added to the profiles