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Goku takes on the Justice League (Well if the League was one single entity.)
- Thread starter AwkguyDB
- Start date
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How good are his Time manipulation and Reality warping?
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Well damn lol. Can Goku really contentd with that? He could just De-Age him into a baby or Age him until he dies.
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AMAZO stomps.
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AMAZO hasliterally every power of the JL. There's no way Goni can resist J'onn's mind hax.
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Holy shit the sheer downplay.
Oh, also
>Implying what works in one franchise also applies to other franchises.
Oh, also
>Implying what works in one franchise also applies to other franchises.
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Vegeta Resisted it through Willpower and he even failed to resist it first time, so that's not a good exampleLeonLMMC said:
Hax working on people stronger then you is the case for almost all verses, Dragon Ball included, so no we are not assuming it works in other verses we follow the rules the verse has
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The downplay is real.
Hax works on people who are stronger than yourself unless stated otherwise or due to verse mechanics. However, the latter only informs for battles occurring in that particular verse. Bleach is a notable example. Or the hax doesn't work because the opponent can somehow tap into its weakness. EX: Pain can be used to dispel Genjutsu from Naruto.
In Dragon Ball, there's not hard rule that says more power means more resistant to hax. Even if there was, that's not how it works in other verses. It's the Ganondorf/Master Sword argument all over again.
Goku has no counter to the sheer aresenal of hax that Amazo has. He has RW, Time Manip, Planetary Mind Manip, Intagibility, etc. Amazo can literally avoid all damage and pick Goku off anytime he wants.
Amazo STOMPS.
Hax works on people who are stronger than yourself unless stated otherwise or due to verse mechanics. However, the latter only informs for battles occurring in that particular verse. Bleach is a notable example. Or the hax doesn't work because the opponent can somehow tap into its weakness. EX: Pain can be used to dispel Genjutsu from Naruto.
In Dragon Ball, there's not hard rule that says more power means more resistant to hax. Even if there was, that's not how it works in other verses. It's the Ganondorf/Master Sword argument all over again.
Goku has no counter to the sheer aresenal of hax that Amazo has. He has RW, Time Manip, Planetary Mind Manip, Intagibility, etc. Amazo can literally avoid all damage and pick Goku off anytime he wants.
Amazo STOMPS.
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Vegeta Resisted it through Willpower and he even failed to resist it first time, so that's not a good example
Hax working on people stronger then you is the case for almost all verses, Dragon Ball included, so no we are not assuming it works in other verses we follow the rules the verse has
. It's stated that Vegeta willingly let himself become majin Vegeta so that the evil in his heart would be reawakened . it's the case for almost all verses except dragon ball at least if you actually pay attention cuz they clearly resist hax when there power is greater.
Hax working on people stronger then you is the case for almost all verses, Dragon Ball included, so no we are not assuming it works in other verses we follow the rules the verse has
. It's stated that Vegeta willingly let himself become majin Vegeta so that the evil in his heart would be reawakened . it's the case for almost all verses except dragon ball at least if you actually pay attention cuz they clearly resist hax when there power is greater.
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. "However the latter only informs for characters in that particular verse." yeah I'm sure there's some very logical reasons behind that. even if AMAZO hax isn't something the force of Gokus ki wasn't able to power through the only reason AMAZO even has a chance to use that Hax at all is because the speed is forcefully being made equal when its highly likely it wouldn't be equal since Super Goku is already Massively faster than light + just in base form and then countlessly faster when you stack his transformations onto it I highly doubt AMAZO would be able to avoid getting blitzed and one shoted by Goku if anything id say its Goku whos getting downplayed.C2 of Omegon said:
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No verse is like that bar Dragon Ball. Hax by definition ignores raw power, they wouldn't have them if it could be resisted through physical superiority. Look at literally any verse that takes hax half seriously. If you can resist with power that means the hax are garbage not that the person is resisting anything noteworthy at all.LeonLMMC said:
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No verse is like that bar Dragon Ball. Hax by definition ignores raw power, they wouldn't have them if it could be resisted through physical superiority. Look at literally any verse that takes hax half seriously. If you can resist with power that means the hax are garbage not that the person is resisting anything noteworthy at all.
Pre crisis Superman from DC is stronger than Majin Buu and there's nothing in his page that's says he's resistant to matter Manipulation so I don't see why Majin buus candy beam couldn't effect him and superman not a master of using Ki like vegito his power doesn't come from ki it comes from the sunlight so I dont see superman being able to stay conscious despite no longer having organs and fight as a candy ball Buus candy beam is obviously great hax if its doing whats intended ignoring supermans physical strength and turning him intk a helpless candy ball that can be eaten . And thx to his Ki vegito just resisted the hax and continued to beat up Buuhan.
Pre crisis Superman from DC is stronger than Majin Buu and there's nothing in his page that's says he's resistant to matter Manipulation so I don't see why Majin buus candy beam couldn't effect him and superman not a master of using Ki like vegito his power doesn't come from ki it comes from the sunlight so I dont see superman being able to stay conscious despite no longer having organs and fight as a candy ball Buus candy beam is obviously great hax if its doing whats intended ignoring supermans physical strength and turning him intk a helpless candy ball that can be eaten . And thx to his Ki vegito just resisted the hax and continued to beat up Buuhan.
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That's not how it works at all. If he doesn't resist it then yes, Majin Buu will turn him into candy regardless of being infinitely weaker.LeonLMMC said:
Vegito actually did get turned into candy, so no he did not resist transmutation with power. He was just able to retain some sentience and movement as a piece of candy.
It being Ki, magic, chakra or sunlight is irrelevant. Does he resist? If yes then those specific hax aren't affecting him. Here Goku does not have the resistances necessary to withstand Amazo's hax so he gets stomped.
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Except that your example doesn't prove anything.LeonLMMC said:
Pre-Crisis Superman has NO resistance to Matter Manipulation due to never demonstrating any feats, meaning that he can be fully affected by it, even by characters much weaker than him. Vegito demonstrated a LIMITED resistance. He was turned into candy, he just retainined his sentience and his level of power.
Guess what? It's never actually stated why he can do it. It's just a feat for him. So your statement about it being due to ki is just conjecture. Sunlight, Ki? It doesn't matter because none of these have anything to due with Vegito's resistance. He's just capable of it. It especially doesn't matter when much weaker versions of Superman have resisted Matter Manip on much higher levels. At the end of the day, that's what matters. Has the character shown a resistance or not? And even if they have a resistance, is the resistance good enough? Because I'll tell you right now, Vegito is not going to resist things like sub-atomic destruction or the like.
Right now, you're trying to wank DB into this Uber-powerful thing that can bulldoze it's way through any hax when we know that's not the case. I can't tell you how many Goku VS Threads have been closed due him getting stomped by his opponent's hax despite him being stronger. DB is notoroius for lacking in hax relative to it's power.
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Goku doesn't breach 4.98E17c since Whis caps there according to how we currently treat their profiles and Amazo= Flash>= Superman>Green Lanterns' cruising speed= 8.7E16c. So even if we unequalize speed, Goku isn't blitzing a thought based action from a person who's barely three times slower than him at worst.LeonLMMC said:
Not that this even matters since speed is equalized anyway.
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Except that your example doesn't prove anything.
Pre-Crisis Superman has NO resistance to Matter Manipulation due to never demonstrating any feats, meaning that he can be fully affected by it, even by characters much weaker than him. Vegito demonstrated a LIMITED resistance. He was turned into candy, he just retainined his sentience and his level of power.
Guess what? It's never actually stated why he can do it. It's just a feat for him. So your statement about it being due to ki is just conjecture. Sunlight, Ki? It doesn't matter because none of these have anything to due with Vegito's resistance. He's just capable of it. It especially doesn't matter when much weaker versions of Superman have resisted Matter Manip on much higher levels. At the end of the day, that's what matters. Has the character shown a resistance or not? And even if they have a resistance, is the resistance good enough? Because I'll tell you right now, Vegito is not going to resist things like sub-atomic destruction or the like.
Right now, you're trying to wank DB into this Uber-powerful thing that can bulldoze it's way through any hax when we know that's not the case. I can't tell you how many Goku VS Threads have been closed due him getting stomped by his opponent's hax despite him being stronger. DB is notoroius for lacking in hax relative to it's power.
"Pre-Crisis Superman has NO resistance to Matter Manipulation due to never demonstrating any feats, meaning that he can be fully affected by it, even by characters much weaker than him." well yeah I was stating that it was part of my point as to why candy beam isn't some garbage hax that cant work as intended. "Guess what? It's never actually stated why he can do it. It's just a feat for him." read the kanzenshuu it and I quote says "he displays overwhelming strength and even after being turned into a candy ball his attack power remains the same ." when Dragon ball is talking about overwhelming strength its talking about Ki power levels when vegeta and Goku fuse together ones power level is multiplied by the other resulting in much larger much greater Ki . How did Vegeta resist babidis mind control? powerful ki . how did Goku fight back against hits timeskip and Jiren break out of time prison ? powerful ki my statement about it being due to ki is just the obvious conclusion you reach thinking about it logically. "Because I'll tell you right now, Vegito is not going to resist things like sub-atomic destruction or the like." *cough* true golden frieza and base Goku breaking free of hakai ball with powerful ki *cough*. right now what im trying to do is prove that DB characters can in fact resist hax abilitys to some extent due to there Ki being powerful enough to do so ive proven that extensively.
Pre-Crisis Superman has NO resistance to Matter Manipulation due to never demonstrating any feats, meaning that he can be fully affected by it, even by characters much weaker than him. Vegito demonstrated a LIMITED resistance. He was turned into candy, he just retainined his sentience and his level of power.
Guess what? It's never actually stated why he can do it. It's just a feat for him. So your statement about it being due to ki is just conjecture. Sunlight, Ki? It doesn't matter because none of these have anything to due with Vegito's resistance. He's just capable of it. It especially doesn't matter when much weaker versions of Superman have resisted Matter Manip on much higher levels. At the end of the day, that's what matters. Has the character shown a resistance or not? And even if they have a resistance, is the resistance good enough? Because I'll tell you right now, Vegito is not going to resist things like sub-atomic destruction or the like.
Right now, you're trying to wank DB into this Uber-powerful thing that can bulldoze it's way through any hax when we know that's not the case. I can't tell you how many Goku VS Threads have been closed due him getting stomped by his opponent's hax despite him being stronger. DB is notoroius for lacking in hax relative to it's power.
"Pre-Crisis Superman has NO resistance to Matter Manipulation due to never demonstrating any feats, meaning that he can be fully affected by it, even by characters much weaker than him." well yeah I was stating that it was part of my point as to why candy beam isn't some garbage hax that cant work as intended. "Guess what? It's never actually stated why he can do it. It's just a feat for him." read the kanzenshuu it and I quote says "he displays overwhelming strength and even after being turned into a candy ball his attack power remains the same ." when Dragon ball is talking about overwhelming strength its talking about Ki power levels when vegeta and Goku fuse together ones power level is multiplied by the other resulting in much larger much greater Ki . How did Vegeta resist babidis mind control? powerful ki . how did Goku fight back against hits timeskip and Jiren break out of time prison ? powerful ki my statement about it being due to ki is just the obvious conclusion you reach thinking about it logically. "Because I'll tell you right now, Vegito is not going to resist things like sub-atomic destruction or the like." *cough* true golden frieza and base Goku breaking free of hakai ball with powerful ki *cough*. right now what im trying to do is prove that DB characters can in fact resist hax abilitys to some extent due to there Ki being powerful enough to do so ive proven that extensively.
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It does work regardless of power, which proves our point.LeonLMMC said:
"Guess what? It's never actually stated why he can do it. It's just a feat for him." read the kanzenshuu it and I quote says "he displays overwhelming strength and even after being turned into a candy ball his attack power remains the same ." when Dragon ball is talking about overwhelming strength its talking about Ki power levels when vegeta and Goku fuse together ones power level is multiplied by the other resulting in much larger much greater Ki . How did Vegeta resist babidis mind control? powerful ki . how did Goku fight back against hits timeskip and Jiren break out of time prison ? powerful ki my statement about it being due to ki is just the obvious conclusion you reach thinking about it logically.
Other verses don't operate on that mechanic at all so you can't just assume that it works in this case. A Culexus Assasin is 8-C but can power null 1-Bs. Reinhard is 3-A but can hax High 1-As. Xue Ying is 2-B but has 1-C void-hax. Dragon Ball is one of the few verses that (supposedly) holds the notion that greater power equates to resistance. Not only does that not hold up against verses where hax completely ignore power but it means that in a scenario where a DB character with hax that can be overcome by Ki is fighting a guy in a tier above him then the person can resist regardless of never resisting it prior.
"Because I'll tell you right now, Vegito is not going to resist things like sub-atomic destruction or the like." *cough* true golden frieza and base Goku breaking free of hakai ball with powerful ki *cough*. right now what im trying to do is prove that DB characters can in fact resist hax abilitys to some extent due to there Ki being powerful enough to do so ive proven that extensively.
Again, that doesn't hold up in say, Saint Seiya where certain hax can only be resisted by divinity not pure power. However a 2-C there would be able to resist here going by your logis since they'd be a lot stronger than any GoD, regardless of whether they've encountered EE or not.
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Even if we assume that AP = Hax resistance, how can we be sure that Goku can resist abilities that has higher potency than anything Dragon Ball has? I mean, even if we assume that Vegeta resisted Babidi's mind control through AP, it still doesn't prove that he can resist Amazo's mind hax that easily reach planetary level according to Martian's profile. To assume otherwise would be NLF.
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It's stated to be planetary in terms of range like it's AOE and can hit multiple targets but the range of a technique and the sheer force of a technique are different . like buus human extinction technique had planetary range kill almost all the humans save for Hercule but if beerus got hit by it he wouldn't be affected .Waria Kambang said:
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What are you even talking about? Martian Manhunter's mind-hax have been stated to be able to affect everyone on the planet, that's a feat of potency. Babidi only mind-haxxed Vegeta,who broke out anyway. Unless you have better feats of potency, Goku and anyone else in Dragon Ball are not resisting anything here at all.LeonLMMC said:
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Ultimately theres cureently no canon instance of a powerful Dragon ball character being Struck by the Hax of a character from another universe and either overpowering or resisting it to some extent or being totally affected by it . so its case of theory speculation and headcanon your headcanon could be that it would or wouldn't in my case my headcanon is that it wouldn't if other people disagree then they disagree a lot of stuff on here comes down to majority vote.
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Obviously, since they've never met characters from other works of fiction but that's not how we do things on this site. In those cases we equalize indentical concepts in both verses so that they can interact. But enough of that, hax negate durability and make a power advantage meaningless. This is true for virtually all verses and we're not making an exception for Dragon Ball. If they lack resistances or a physiological condition that allow them to ignore hax then they're getting haxxed.LeonLMMC said:
And it's not headcanon. An ability has been shown to ignore durability and a power gap. Why would we assume that Goku could power through it when the very mechanics of the hax make said raw power useless (see my various examples above)? You're the only one inserting headcanon into the character at this point.
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since Ki has shown to be able to overpower or at least somewhat resist hax in Dragon Ball why would you assume it Can't work when fighting other verses ? Like I get that my statements don't convince you and yours dont convince me and I'm frankly not interested in bothering with this anymore I agree to disagree simple as that .
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Because you seem to forget that it's a weakness of the hax if they can be overpowered by strength. Regular hax can't be powered through by their very definition, whether by Ki, magic, chakra etc. If they can then that means the hax are garbage-tier not that the guy overpowering it can overpower hax from verses that clearly don't give two ***** about their opponents power.LeonLMMC said:
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Babidi mindhaxed Vegeta before he eventually overpowered itLeonLMMC said:
Guldo time stopped Gohan
Buu absorbs super Gohan.
Hax not working on those with stronger ki is just wrong.
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