Gokage Speed Upgrade & Uzuhiko Fix [Boruto]

[Ghostimuscrime]

Simple CRT, just two changes



Gokage Buff :
EOS Kakashi is 9.12c, his 1st gate is 45.6c as seen here, Boruto era characters outscale non god tiers massively that
strong characters like him & sakura despite their strong powers are not much of a help, hence in momo arc Sasuke
states gokage are the best people to employ when naruto was kidnapped, proving gokage far surpass any of the
boosts that kakashi or sakura can provide. This is also a critical situation as they're deemed kaguya level threats,
kaguya who is considered the greatest threat the shinobi world has faced, so they need whatever advantage they
can get, for sasuke to exclude Kakashi & Sakura out means they add insignificant advantage in contrast, scaling
gokage massively above kakashi at FP including his speed. (They're already rated above his AP)

Spoiler: JUSTIFICATION

FTL+ (Sasuke concluded the Gokage were the best fighters in the shinobi world implying the tactical advantage
they provide against kaguya level threats far surpasses characters like Kakashi and Sakura at full power) [45.6c]

this is for individual gokage, everyone else can be >them in their justifications

Uzuhiko :
This calc is accepted, it assumes the external natural forces amplify the power of the jutsu, this should be removed
because the official database explicitly states uzuhiko has the same AP as a normal rasengan. The external forces
instead of getting converted to extra joules just affects victims and induce instability

Counterarguments :
Lil section where I add refuations to counters used so you don't have to scroll and read up

Kakashi's AP is poor and not enough to handle the duo

Gokage were recruited due to their tactical advantage, they do not officially have real AP feats against Momoshiki
& Kinshiki, the actual edge they had were via smart use of ninjutsu to bind Kinshiki, Kakashi has mastered 1000
ninjutsu so the advantage of recruiting them compared to him must be due to primarily speed

Spoiler: Chapter 7 of Boruto NNG

-Chojuro is too slow to avoid Kinshiki's blow and gets injured
-Kurotsuchi has to catch him off guard to send him flying
-Both of them start gaining an edge by using their ninjutsu to bind him


And then their time ends as Kinshiki gets absorbed and they get bodied without ever producing a legitimate AP feat in the source material

This makes a bit of sense since even Shikamaru was able to bind Momoshiki despite massive AP gap. So any
argument suggesting they're brought in due to physical power is utter woke nonsense.

Kakashi is not present during Momoshiki Invasion

He is

 

[Damage3245]

EOS Kakashi is 9.12c, his 1st gate is 45.6c as seen here, Boruto era characters outscale non god tiers massively that
strong characters like him & sakura despite their strong powers are not much of a help, hence in momo arc Sasuke
states gokage are the best people to employ when naruto was kidnapped, proving gokage far surpass any of the
boosts that kakashi or sakura can provide. This is also a critical situation as they're deemed kaguya level threats,
kaguya who is considered the greatest threat the shinobi world has faced, so they need whatever advantage they
can get, for sasuke to exclude Kakashi & Sakura out means they add insignificant advantage in contrast, scaling
gokage massively above kakashi at FP including his speed.

I again disagree with this; Kakashi never uses the First Gate in actual combat situations from what we've seen over his many, many fights throughout the series. There's no reason to think Sasuke is specifically taking this into consideration and considers the Gokage each individually to be over 45.6 times the speed of light.

Being the "best fighters" also isn't necessarily the same as being the fastest, either.

 

[Samlex1234]

Following

 

[SlendVeny]

Kakashi is like one-shot levels below Momoshiki, him being fast does not negate that.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Simple CRT, just two changes



Gokage Buff :
EOS Kakashi is 9.12c, his 1st gate is 45.6c as seen here, Boruto era characters outscale non god tiers massively that
strong characters like him & sakura despite their strong powers are not much of a help, hence in momo arc Sasuke
states gokage are the best people to employ when naruto was kidnapped, proving gokage far surpass any of the
boosts that kakashi or sakura can provide. This is also a critical situation as they're deemed kaguya level threats,
kaguya who is considered the greatest threat the shinobi world has faced, so they need whatever advantage they
can get, for sasuke to exclude Kakashi & Sakura out means they add insignificant advantage in contrast, scaling
gokage massively above kakashi at FP including his speed. (They're already rated above his AP)

Speed is kinda meaningless without Techniques/Stats to back it up. A character could be MFTL and Wall Level but it wouldn't really matter if they're facing a Universe Level opponent. Unless you can prove that Kakashi could damage those God Tiers somehow, this is a non point.

Uzuhiko :
This calc is accepted, it assumes the external natural forces amplify the power of the jutsu, this should be removed
because the official database explicitly states uzuhiko has the same AP as a normal rasengan. The external forces
instead of getting converted to extra joules just affects victims and induce instability

I think you're misinterpreting this, I believe this statement is what you're referring to? "In addition to the damage that a standard Rasengan causes" This is more likely referring to the type of damage (like blunt force or something) rather than the amount as it wouldn't make sense for Boruto to only be able to significantly damage someone like Hidari with the Rasengan Uzuhiko but not the standard Rasengan if they had the same energy output.

Hard Disagree from me but that could change depending on additional evidence found.

 

[SlendVeny]

Also, wasn't Sakura busy healing the dozens of injured people?

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Also, wasn't Sakura busy healing the dozens of injured people?

Hinata

 

[SlendVeny]

Hinata

Look, she tried to 1v2 some Otsutsuki, I admire the confidence.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I again disagree with this; Kakashi never uses the First Gate in actual combat situations from what we've seen over his many, many fights throughout the series. There's no reason to think Sasuke is specifically taking this into consideration and considers the Gokage each individually to be over 45.6 times the speed of light.

Being the "best fighters" also isn't necessarily the same as being the fastest, either.

Not using it =/= does not have it
naruto doesnt use RSB since kcm1 but we index MAS using that

"but he doesnt use it"
WHY does he not use it?
they just have better alternatives to not choose to employ it
Does not mean it's not a part of their arsenal

so that reasoning is wrong

---

Sasuke saying this is the narrative telling you everything in their arsenal adds negligible, I don't need to specifically say a certain jutsu it's all implied in the larger statement, it would be weird to say MAS cant be > Asura avatar or RSB because the writer likely did not think of those jutsu, that's ignorance Damage.

MAS was used once in the war and never again, yet they brought it up in boruto, the writers know and care about the previous source material. Several jutsu are brought back into boruto for showcase to say one of the smartest characters dont consider it is utter woke nonsense

What they think of? Irrelevant, as long as it's valid and inclusive statement the logic is sound

Either way you would be assuming Kakashi is faster than the likes of Isshiki and Momoshiki which is wrong

 

[SlendVeny]

Come to think of it, if Kakashi's 1st Gate is being factored in, what's to say the 1st gate isn't the reason Kido considered him a threat?

 

[Damage3245]

Not using it =/= does not have it

Doesn't matter. I never said he didn't have it; there's just no evidence that it's relevant at all to Sasuke's statement.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Kakashi is like one-shot levels below Momoshiki, him being fast does not negate that.

Kakashi is scaled to KK lol. KK is 1/10th of Jigen whos 12x above momoshiki


Also in naruto speed advantages are a huge factor because you can blitz and paralyse kinshiki
or use smoke bombs to blind them
That would be a MASSIVE advantage, there's several things Kakashi can do, it's ridiculous to say AP is a defining factor

 

[Damage3245]

or use smoke bombs to blind them

His smoke bombs explode at 45.6c too? /s

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Kakashi is scaled to KK lol. KK is 1/10th of Jigen whos 12x above momoshiki

Kashin Koji and Kakashi are only Moon Level (Below Momoshiki and Kinshiki), KK scales to Jigen only with Sage Mode (which Kakashi doesn't scale to). Kakashi only scales to Jigen's tier with Purple Lightning and even then, its a "Possibly" Rating, not a full rating.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Also, wasn't Sakura busy healing the dozens of injured people?

Headcanon. We only see her healing Hinata and then helping her to get to the Hokage Tower, which doesn’t implies to me that she’s particularly busy healing people atm. She could’ve easily let Mitsuki and Sarada help her otherwise since they were already on the way.

They can wait.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Headcanon. We only see her healing Hinata and then helping her to get to the Hokage Tower, which doesn’t implies to me that she’s particularly busy healing people atm.

They can wait.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Doesn't matter. I never said he didn't have it; there's just no evidence that it's relevant at all to Sasuke's statement.

False Requirement. You don't need specific words for everything, we assume everything in one's arsenal when a character's advantage is brought into question. Sasuke is one of the smartest characters he would have known & bring everything into consideration


You might as well say everything that isn't explicitly stated cannot be scaled but hey going by that logic say yes to the Uzuhiko AP removal, since there's no explicit evidence of it boosting AP


"Everything needs explicit evidence" say yes to uzuhiko removal due to no explicit evidence of ap buffs
"We can keep Uzuhiko because it logically it makes sense" then greenlight the 45.6c upgrade as it logically makes sense

You don't get to have both ends of downplay

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I think you're misinterpreting this, I believe this statement is what you're referring to? "In addition to the damage that a standard Rasengan causes" This is more likely referring to the type of damage (like blunt force or something) rather than the amount as it wouldn't make sense for Boruto to only be able to significantly damage someone like Hidari with the Rasengan Uzuhiko but not the standard Rasengan if they had the same energy output.

Hard Disagree from me but that could change depending on additional evidence found.

Hidari is not super durable, he was fatally wounded by Sarada very easily so it does not prove AP is boosted as opposed to greater volumes of dura neg with normal ap.

Boruto himself scales to Hidari




Also you do not pick narrative implication over explicit official statements, in addition to normal ap they list side effects meaning the AP is the same throughout.

 

[Damage3245]

False Requirement. You don't need specific words for everything, we assume everything in one's arsenal when a character's advantage is brought into question. Sasuke is one of the smartest characters he would have known & bring everything into consideration

You might be assuming that, I'm currently not.

I'll revisit this thread later but for now I remain in disagreement with it.

 

[Testarossa002]

Gokage Buff

Sasuke says "current battle strength". Which means out of those who are readily available for combat. Kakashi wasn't shown to be present in the village during the Momoshiki arc and we know that he goes out of the village for vacations and stuffs. I also disagree with the Sakura aspect but that doesn't matter anyways for your scaling proposal.

Uzuhiko :

If Uzuhiko supposedly has the same raw AP as his regular rasengan, how are you planning on reconciling the showings of both against Hidari? Whether or not you think the centrifugal whatever adds Joules or spins to the rasengan is irrelevant. What we do see is that hidari got obliterated once he got hit with uzuhiko.

 

[Damage3245]

Sasuke says "current battle strength". Which means out of those who are readily available for combat. Kakashi wasn't shown to be present in the village during the Momoshiki arc and we know that he goes out of the village for vacations and stuffs. I also disagree with the Sakura aspect but that doesn't matter anyways for your scaling proposal.

That's a good point... Do we even know where Kakashi is at all during that arc? If not, then you're right that we can't assume he's even in consideration here.

 

[SlendVeny]

Kakashi is scaled to KK lol. KK is 1/10th of Jigen whos 12x above momoshiki

So you think Kakashi is 1.2x Momoshiki, but the 5 Kage scale above the 5x amo of his First Gate?

 

[SlendVeny]

Headcanon. We only see her healing Hinata and then helping her to get to the Hokage Tower, which doesn’t implies to me that she’s particularly busy healing people atm. She could’ve easily let Mitsuki and Sarada help her otherwise since they were already on the way.

They can wait.

Mitsuki and Sarada are medical shinobi?

 

[Samlex1234]

Simple CRT, just two changes



Gokage Buff :
EOS Kakashi is 9.12c, his 1st gate is 45.6c as seen here, Boruto era characters outscale non god tiers massively that
strong characters like him & sakura despite their strong powers are not much of a help, hence in momo arc Sasuke
states gokage are the best people to employ when naruto was kidnapped, proving gokage far surpass any of the
boosts that kakashi or sakura can provide. This is also a critical situation as they're deemed kaguya level threats,
kaguya who is considered the greatest threat the shinobi world has faced, so they need whatever advantage they
can get, for sasuke to exclude Kakashi & Sakura out means they add insignificant advantage in contrast, scaling
gokage massively above kakashi at FP including his speed. (They're already rated above his AP)

Spoiler: JUSTIFICATION

FTL+ (Sasuke concluded the Gokage were the best fighters in the shinobi world implying the tactical advantage
they provide against kaguya level threats far surpasses characters like Kakashi and Sakura at full power) [45.6c]

this is for individual gokage, everyone else can be >them in their justifications

Uzuhiko :
This calc is accepted, it assumes the external natural forces amplify the power of the jutsu, this should be removed
because the official database explicitly states uzuhiko has the same AP as a normal rasengan. The external forces
instead of getting converted to extra joules just affects victims and induce instability

I will reply soon to the speed section


For the Uzhiko part, I agree that the rating should indeed be removed but I don’t agree with the OP's reasoning.

Here is my reasoning: we cannot really determine the extent of the energy used in one attack. The problem with the calc is that it assumes that Boruto uses the planetary spin of a day and orbit of one year in the attack. However, the maximum output of Uzuhiko potentially exceeds the energy of one full planetary spin or one full orbit around the Sun. Here’s why: the Earth doesn’t stop spinning after 24 hours, nor does it stop orbiting after 365/366 days. We have evidence that Boruto can absorb as much or as little energy as he desires without causing noticeable harm to the planet. This raises the question— if he can absorb the Orbital energy for 183 days (6 months) what prevents him from absorbing the orbital energy equivalent to 20 years, or even the energy accumulated over 5 billion years?

In fact, the two times Boruto used it, no one can accurately calculate or determine the true energy output of the attack.Thus the rating should be unknown

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

You might be assuming that, I'm currently not.

I'll revisit this thread later but for now I remain in disagreement with it.

generalized evaluations of combat power or relevance in the current context, means specific techniques or attributes can still be implied based on the broader context.
If I ask for removal of the MAS>AA+RSB rating from the same logic will you greenlight that?

Sasuke says "current battle strength". Which means out of those who are readily available for combat. Kakashi wasn't shown to be present in the village during the Momoshiki arc and we know that he goes out of the village for vacations and stuffs. I also disagree with the Sakura aspect but that doesn't matter anyways for your scaling proposal.

Sasuke would retrieve Kakashi for Kaguya level threats, he also says best crew, not best crew at the moment. if someone stronger was away they would definitely make mention of it

If Uzuhiko supposedly has the same raw AP as his regular rasengan, how are you planning on reconciling the showings of both against Hidari? Whether or not you think the centrifugal whatever adds Joules or spins to the rasengan is irrelevant. What we do see is that hidari got obliterated once he got hit with uzuhiko.

So what? they already scale above his physicals above his, he doesnt go from not being able to damage hidari to destroying him for you to assume it's massively above his base ninjutsu ap, it has more volume which can perfectly lead to his beyond hidari ap destroying hidari's body

 

[MasqueTLDF]

In fact, the two times Boruto used it, no one can accurately calculate or determine the true energy output of the attack.Thus the rating should be unknown

Not sure if this is a derailing question but is it possible that the Uzuhiko only absorbs energy proportionate to the time Boruto is on the ground rather than Boruto being on the ground just being a condition for use. Like the Power of Uzuhiko would be Rotation Energy/s x Seconds on the Ground + Boruto's Chakra. Just a thought.

 

[Testarossa002]

Sasuke would retrieve Kakashi for Kaguya level threats

retrieve him from where?

he also says best crew, not best crew at the moment. if someone stronger was away they would definitely make mention of it

he says CURRENT. Aka those who are available to fight. Why would sasuke waste his already limited chakra to look for kakashi and waste more time when there are comparable replacements for him?

So what? they already scale above his physicals above his, he doesnt go from not being able to damage hidari to destroying him for you to assume it's massively above his base ninjutsu ap, it has more volume which can perfectly lead to his beyond hidari ap destroying hidari's body

What does physicals have to do with anything?
Boruto goes from shaving off an arm/shoulder to reducing his opponent to atoms.
Momoshiki was already capable of blowing off Boro's arms with his kicks and he still used a Cho Oodama Rasengan to finish the job. What then? His kicks have the same output as the rasengan?
If you're going to sit there and assert that both attacks have the same energy output, then there's no point in this back and forth

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

retrieve him from where?

wherever you think he is? Illogical assumption to have a person with tactical advantage be excluded and never brought up

Momoshiki was already capable of blowing off Boro's arms with his kicks and he still used a Cho Oodama Rasengan to finish the job. What then? His kicks have the same output as the rasengan?
If you're going to sit there and assert that both attacks have the same energy output, then there's no point in this back and forth

Deadass what the heck are YOU talking about?

I said Hidari does not require massive amounts of energy to eliminate since they're already beating him up, please stop strawmanning me I attacked possible implications. I destroy a person's face with a truth seeker orb, I destroy their whole body with a human size orb why would you assert it needs to be stronger after the officials outright say its the same.



You are literally saying forget what is officially stated and this implication that does not imply greater AP means it had greater ap. What is this logic?

 

[Nierre]

Kakashi was actually in the village in the anime watching the Chunin Exams with Guy and Iruka. When the Otsutsuki attacked he helped rescue spectators from the area and when Sasuke's about to leave with Boruto and the Kage, he instructs Sarada to help him and Shikamaru to protect the village.

The issue here is that Kakashi scales to Koji who scales at most 10% Jigen (and Jigen scales to the same value as Momoshiki and Kinshiki), which puts Kakashi at least x10 weaker than the pair. With the Gates amp he goes from 10x to 5x weaker than the pair, which is still inferior to the Gokage who currently straight up scale to the pair. And we know that the Gates is an amp that works as a double edged sword that harms you. and even using it minimally, it can exhaust you as shown when Team Guy was training to learn the Front Lotus. We don't even know if Kakashi has this technique mastered like Lee does, but even if he does it's not like SPSM where he can use it without any drawbacks, it'll be continuously hurting him even if he was 5 times faster.

Anyways, I don't really see why Sasuke wouldn't take Kakashi's Gates into consideration. If anything, Kakashi has even more of a reason to use it now considering he not only doesn't have Sharingan anymore that siphons his chakra, but he's stated to have better chakra control and is factually much stronger than he was in the war. Even more than that, they need characters that can harm the Otsutsuki pair without using Ninjutsu, and Kakashi would benefit EVEN MORE from using the Gates as it amps him physically.

Either way though, they didn't need Kakashi. They had no idea they could fuse so they were under the assumption that it was just Momo and Kin, which they actually managed to corner and almost beat. They didn't need Kakashi at all. Kakashi was busy helping evacuate Konoha citizens (according to the anime), so Sasuke likely just left him to do that while the Gokage, him and Boruto go deal with MomoKin. So he probably took Kakashi out of the equation because he thought that Kakashi had more usefulness protecting Konoha rather than fighting, which in itself doesn't support or debunk the OP's claim

Because of this I don't believe, there's any evidence of the Gokage scaling to Kakashi, however maybe there's an argument for Isshiki scaling above Kakashi instead?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

The thing is the first gate isn't really overly harmful, it's the 5th and higher that really starts damaging you, the first one was casual enough that he can employ it during climbing activities, implying there's somewhat skillfulness in Kakashi even if it does drain him it's a kaguya level threat, sub kaguya level threats had Guy give up his very life to beat Madara, so Kakashi can most certainly consider amping himself to give any advantage possible, remember momo and kin can have hidden tricks they are not aware of

maybe there's an argument for Isshiki scaling above Kakashi instead?

Well we could scale MAS above his first gate form, Amado stated only naruto and sasuke stand a chance after they got individually cooked implying the MAS is konoha's best bet and use that to say jigen and jigen+ people are all 45.6c


if people want i can edit and add another rating

 

[Nierre]

Well we could scale MAS above his first gate form, Amado stated only naruto and sasuke stand a chance after they got individually cooked implying the MAS is konoha's best bet and use that to say jigen and jigen+ people are all 45.6c

The thing is MAS isn't a speed amp (at least it isn't accepted as such), and even if it was, it still falls under the same issues because Kakashi still wouldn't be able to do shit against Jigen even if he was faster

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

almost beat

Also another thing to people bringing up AP as a defeater

Chojuro couldnt dodge Kinshiki and got sliced up
Tsuchikage had to catch him off guard just to slam him
him and tsuchikage had to use ninjutsu to bind Kinshiki
none of them physically really match the duo before momoshiki absorbed kinshiki and the rest is history

none of them have valid AP feats against the duo so the only logical conclusion is that sasuke brought recruited them for overall tactical advantage, not AP but ninjutsu usage especially, what are the important things needed to achieve this? speed not ap

if Sasuke can bring them he should most certainly bring Kakashi if he can provide a speed advantage but didnt cuz kakashi even with his speed amp is cheeks

The thing is MAS isn't a speed amp (at least it isn't accepted as such), and even if it was, it still falls under the same issues because Kakashi still wouldn't be able to do shit against Jigen even if he was faster

It's the fusion of naruto and sasuke it can be as many times stronger and faster as it needs to be, fusion amps are exponential buffs, I'm sorry I don't follow the second line

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I have edited in refutations in my OP to counterarguments made against the first one, no one was able to prove uzuhiko buffs AP so I did not bother add any

That's a good point... Do we even know where Kakashi is at all during that arc? If not, then you're right that we can't assume he's even in consideration here.

retrieve him from where?

Thanks to Nierre I rechecked and voilah!

 

[Damage3245]

Thanks to Nierre I rechecked and voilah!

Good find.

 

[SlendVeny]

Come to think of it, if Kakashi's 1st Gate is being factored in, what's to say the 1st gate isn't the reason Kido considered him a threat?

Seriously, with the logic of this thread, what's to stop someone from arguing that Kakashi only scales to Kido's speed when using 1st gate?

I wouldn't bring up the Kashin Koji~Delta stuff that's on the profiles, since for some reason we have Koji's AP relative with Sage Mode, but speed in base? Idk what that's about.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Good find.

thanks! anyways please address this (the last half)

you don't get both sides of the spectrum unfortunately Damage, hope you won't be evasive.

Seriously, with the logic of this thread, what's to stop someone from arguing that Kakashi only scales to Kido's speed when using 1st gate?

im not really in opposition, if you wanna use it go ahead! if a certain someone says yes I would leave the thread satisfied due to a consistency in evaluation logic at the very least...although Idk the scan and context so I'll leave that for you to make.

I wouldn't bring up the Kashin Koji~Delta stuff that's on the profiles, since for some reason we have Koji's AP relative with Sage Mode, but speed in base? Idk what that's about.

as for KK base~Delta
he was gonnna handle her in base via ninjutsu that requires speed, no buts or ifs, his hand signs indicated some other ninjutsu was gonna be used
I personally think KK should get his AP rating to delta removed, he was gonna pack her up and handle her in base via other jutsu without needing sage mode or even ap

 

[Damage3245]

thanks! anyways please address this (the last half)

you don't get both sides of the spectrum unfortunately Damage, hope you won't be evasive.

Well, I haven't gone through the Uzuhiko arguments yet but I'll get to it soon.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Well, I haven't gone through the Uzuhiko arguments yet but I'll get to it soon.

no problem
I shall wait

 

[Samlex1234]

I again disagree with this; Kakashi never uses the First Gate in actual combat situations from what we've seen over his many, many fights throughout the series. There's no reason to think Sasuke is specifically taking this into consideration and considers the Gokage each individually to be over 45.6 times the speed of light.

Being the "best fighters" also isn't necessarily the same as being the fastest, either.

“I again disagree with this; Kakashi never uses the First Gate in actual combat situations from what we've seen over his many, many fights throughout the series. There's no reason to think Sasuke is specifically taking this into consideration and considers the Gokage each individually to be over 45.6 times the speed of light.”

This a typical example of argumentum ad ignorantiam. As I mentioned in the Boruto discussion, there’s a concept called analytical deduction. This is where skilled individuals, fully understanding their own and others’ abilities, evaluate their applicability in a given scenario to determine effectiveness. For instance, Kakashi not using his First Gate amp doesn’t negate the fact that he possesses the ability, just as Gai could use the Eight Gate for a long time but only activated it in his fight against Madara.

Honestly i don't even know why we are having this argument when Kakashi is already stated to have the 1 gate amp on the wiki

Kakashi speed rating on VS wiki

“FTL+ with First Gate (The first gate multiplies one's speed by 5 times)”



“Being the "best fighters" also isn't necessarily the same as being the fastest, either.”

If base Kakashi is established to be roughly equal in speed to koji, then activating the First Gate should make him not only five times faster but also significantly stronger, even if only briefly.

However, based on Sasuke’s analytical deduction, Kakashi’s amplified AP/Speed in the First Gate wasn’t impactful enough to make a difference, meanwhile Sasuke was clearly focused on leveraging meaningful advantages (which speed is part of), as seen when he brought Boruto along purely for his Vanishing Rasengan. This implies Kakashi never had a true edge in the first place.

Thus, If base Kakashi is roughly equal to base koji in speed, the First Gate would elevate him to five times faster than him but still below the power level of the Gokage in sasuke analysis. Thus, the hierarchy could be summarized as: Gokage > First Gate Kakashi > Base Kakashi ~ koji.

Seriously, with the logic of this thread, what's to stop someone from arguing that Kakashi only scales to Kido's speed when using 1st gate?

I wouldn't bring up the Kashin Koji~Delta stuff that's on the profiles, since for some reason we have Koji's AP relative with Sage Mode, but speed in base? Idk what that's about.

The original post focuses solely on speed, in which base Koji already scales to Delta in terms of speed, and base Kakashi is comparable to him. Therefore, it stands to reason that Kakashi in the First Gate, being an enhancement beyond his base form, would logically surpass his base self, who is already relative to Koji.

koji current speed scaling

“Speed: FTL+ (Able to keep up with Kakashi, is confident that he can combat Delta in base”

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

This a typical example of argumentum ad ignorantiam. As I mentioned in the Boruto discussion, there’s a concept called analytical deduction. This is where skilled individuals, fully understanding their own and others’ abilities, evaluate their applicability in a given scenario to determine effectiveness.

Holy cook