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God of War: Ragnarok Discussion Thread

The statement where he says the Norse were as powerful as any other Pantheon he had come across.
I'm sure there is more nuance to that statement than physical power. Especially when it involves two entire pantheons. If Mimir is truly suggesting they are all equal in power even after Mimir knows Kratos killed Zeus and who the Ghost of Sparda is and likely what Kratos had done to still say that he doesn't know if Kratos could defeat Thor in the lore and legends book.
Which quickly goes to shit and now he has to teach his son how to master this power to use it for good and break the cycle of Gods doing terrible deeds and killing their parents.
Indeed
 
Both, plus another additional reason.

Fallen God Kratos was confirmed verbatim to be weaker than his peak GOW3 self by Bruno himself because of his stab wound that he had to then heal from and due to his lack of sleep, this same Kratos then fell out of training and slacked out massively to the point where we see him in 2018, where the novel ultimately confirms that Kratos atrophied massively and was indeed more muscular in his early Greek days. Remember, he tried to starve himself to death and walk endlessly to no avail, he couldn't even die from hunger if he wanted to, he only ate at this point to satisfy his taste buds.
He says Fallen God Kratos specifically when he says Kratos is weaker, not 2018 Kratos. 2018 Kratos is literally at least 100 years after Fallen God
 
I'm sure there is more nuance to that statement than physical power. Especially when it involves two entire pantheons. If Mimir is truly suggesting they are all equal in power even after Mimir knows Kratos killed Zeus and who the Ghost of Sparta is and likely what Kratos had done to still say that he doesn't know if Kratos could defeat Thor in the lore and legends book.
Mimir has no idea what a monster Kratos can truly be, he doesn't even know that Kratos killed the Sisters of Fate given his statement of "Kratos can't fight Fate", despite literally having lolnoped every single attempt by the Sisters to kill him.
 
Mimir has no idea what a monster Kratos can truly be, he doesn't even know that Kratos killed the Sisters of Fate given his statement of "Kratos can't fight Fate", despite literally having lolnoped every single attempt by the Sisters to kill him.
But that's irrelevant to Mimir knowing Kratos killing Zeus and his massacre on his own Pantheon yet still being unsure if Kratos can kill Thor. If we are to believe all pantheons are truly equal in pure power then Mimir would effectively be saying Thor is above Zeus' level.
 
But that's irrelevant to Mimir knowing Kratos killing Odin and his massacre on his own Pantheon yet still being unsure if Kratos can kill Thor. If we are to believe all pantheons are truly equal in pure power then Mimir would effectively be saying Thor is above Zeus' level.
Except, Mimir doesn't know about any of the power-ups Kratos had in play when doing the deed.
 
Zeus effectively has considerably better hax and an even more aggressive forcefield in GOW2 that chips out health if you don't disable it with Rage of the Titans
He's certainly wayy more versatile, but Kratos resists everything he has, whereas Zeus hasn't shown to resist Timeslow or stat reduction.

And Zeus' aura could probably be disabled with spartan rage
Nah, if bloodlusted, Kratos would legitimately have no answer at all, Zeus would power-null him on contact
Doesn't Kratos resist Zeus Powernull by gow3?
blow on him hard enough
..........
Okaaaaayyyy
Zeus has Breath Attack BTW).
Really? When has he shown this?
They do, Thor and Jormi shaking and splintering the World Tree whose branches stretch to infinity, even if we assumed the realms are not legit, the tree's branches being infinitely big can't be thrown out.
That waaay beyond tier 3. Isn't that at the absolute worst 2-A and absolute best Low 1-C?
 
Except, Mimir doesn't know about any of the power-ups Kratos had in play when doing the deed.
He doesn't need to know, we can gather from the information that Norse Kratos while severely holding back is at least stronger than prime Zeus w/o Power of Fear in Mimir's eyes
 
He's certainly wayy more versatile, but Kratos resists everything he has, whereas Zeus hasn't shown to resist Timeslow or stat reduction.
Zeus resisted the BoO's Power Absorption/Drain and Power Null abilities and came back even stronger as seen where he casually one-shots Gaia and tears her arm off and sends Kratos flying in the distance, his AD should counter this quite easily.

And Zeus' aura could probably be disabled with spartan rage
No, normal Spartan Rage won't cut it, he'll need Rage of the Titans or the BoO Rage of Sparta.

Doesn't Kratos resist Zeus Powernull by gow3?
Not without the Power of Hope, no.

Really? When has he shown this?
GOW2 Novel Chapter 11

That waaay beyond tier 3. Isn't that at the absolute worst 2-A and absolute best Low 1-C?
Both 2-A and Low 1-C are currently under contention. Ultima said he planned on downgrading it to 2-C.
 
He doesn't need to know, we can gather from the information that Norse Kratos while severely holding back is at least stronger than prime Zeus w/o Power of Fear in Mimir's eyes
Except this doesn't work out because Kratos was only ever equal to Zeus with all the Titan Power Ups, Hades' soul, and Boots of Hermes if we're discounting the Power of Hope. Even with the BoO he had to play possum simply because of how powerful Zeus was.
 
Except this doesn't work out because Kratos was only ever equal to Zeus with all the Titan Power Ups, Hades' soul, and Boots of Hermes if we're discounting the Power of Hope. Even with the BoO he had to play possum simply because of how powerful Zeus was.
That's missing the point. Just like Mimir shouldn't know anything about Fear and Hope power-ups, he wouldn't know about all the power and abilities, and weapons Kratos acquired in GOW3 used to defeat Zeus. If you argue he did then he would surely be aware of Fear and Hope power-ups as well in his estimation of Zeus' power.
 
Mimir doesn't have much detail about Kratos to the point he knew all the weapons and powers up he used to defeat Zeus and he didn't even know what Kratos looked like. The only thing he knows is that Kratos fought and killed Zeus by beating the shit out of him so Mimir's indecisiveness when it comes to wether or not Kratos could defeat Thor should be including his knowledge that Kratos fought and killed Zeus (And most of the Greek pantheon).
 
Zeus resisted the BoO's Power Absorption/Drain and Power Null abilities and came back even stronger as seen where he casually one-shots Gaia and tears her arm off and sends Kratos flying in the distance, his AD should counter this quite easily.
Is resisting powernull and absorption applicable to stat reduction?
No, normal Spartan Rage won't cut it, he'll need Rage of the Titans or the BoO Rage of Sparta.
Does this have novel statements? Like does he specifically need the rage of the titans? Or will anything equal or stronger than it do?

And who's to say he can't still tap into it?

I thought Zeus only destroyed his equipment and all his other powers he doesn't use anymore for gameplay reasons?


Not without the Power of Hope, no.
So he only resist Zeus power null with power of hope? even tho Kratos gained another layer of power null resistance without tapping into the poh and Zeus never had sucess removing his powers in GOW3. He no longer has the soul of hades? I think Bruno said he doesn't in a tweet, but I could be wrong.
Both 2-A and Low 1-C are currently under contention. Ultima said he planned on downgrading it to 2-C.
So absolute minimum is 2-C.

Still pretty far above high 3-A.
 
I think Odin when says the whole "has anyone ever worshipped you" rant I think he could potentially be talking about an older Atreus aka Loki. Atreus/Loki doesn't know anything about true godhood like Kratos or Odin does, he wasn't raised that way. Loki hasn't been mentioned at all in GOW Norse myth except on the Jotunheim mural so he obviously isn't worshipped much if at all and doesn't have that kind of love. If Odin is talking to Loki, he would be talking to an Atreus that has lived over at least 100 years and has grandchildren meaning he has lived for what could be considered lifetimes, not including potential time travel lifespan. And naturally could be viewed as a murderer who only cares about himself if he is willing to cause Ragnarok just to kill Odin.
 
Is resisting powernull and absorption applicable to stat reduction?
Not sure, but Zeus's AD should be able to counter it no problem.

Does this have novel statements? Like does he specifically need the rage of the titans? Or will anything equal or stronger than it do?
Technically speaking as per the novel Zeus laughed it all off and stated that Kratos's usage of the Titan Powers was still not enough to defeat him. And he was right, Kratos still had to play possum.

And who's to say he can't still tap into it?
The fact that he nulled himself by channeling Hope through the BoO to sacrifice himself and not let Athena win.

I thought Zeus only destroyed his equipment and all his other powers he doesn't use anymore for gameplay reasons?
Nope, canonically speaking he can't use them anymore, Bruno also states that Kratos lost Hades' soul forever when Zeus smacked him in the face and shattered all his gear, he needed the Claws of Hades to control the power of Hades' soul and all the other souls he had control over.

As for the rest of his other power ups, he let it all out with BoO, including Hope.

So he only resist Zeus power null with power of hope?
Yes.

even tho Kratos gained another layer of power null resistance without tapping into the poh
He never did. Zeus nulled Kratos via physical contact.

and Zeus never had sucess removing his powers in GOW3.
Because Zeus was pretty much obsessed with killing Kratos with his own bare hands himself due to Fear itself. Zeus be that arrogant sometimes.

He no longer has the soul of hades? I think Bruno said he doesn't in a tweet, but I could be wrong.
He did indeed (Tweets here and here). He needed the Claws to control Hades' soul and several other souls of various deceased Warriors. All that went down the drain when Fear Zeus smacked him.
 
Mimir doesn't have much detail about Kratos to the point he knew all the weapons and powers up he used to defeat Zeus and he didn't even know what Kratos looked like. The only thing he knows is that Kratos fought and killed Zeus by beating the shit out of him so Mimir's indecisiveness when it comes to wether or not Kratos could defeat Thor should be including his knowledge that Kratos fought and killed Zeus (And most of the Greek pantheon).
That automatically debunks that Mimir knows what Kratos's true potential once was.
 
That's missing the point. Just like Mimir shouldn't know anything about Fear and Hope power-ups, he wouldn't know about all the power and abilities, and weapons Kratos acquired in GOW3 used to defeat Zeus. If you argue he did then he would surely be aware of Fear and Hope power-ups as well in his estimation of Zeus' power.
My point is that Mimir not knowing about them is exactly what proves to me that he is making assumptions about the Kratos he has seen in action, not the Kratos that was an absolute powerhouse at his peak in GOW3.
 
That automatically debunks that Mimir knows what Kratos's true potential once was.
Not really since the point was using the pantheons being equal in power as the basis for that argument.

My point is that Mimir not knowing about them is exactly what proves to me that he is making assumptions about the Kratos he has seen in action, not the Kratos that was an absolute powerhouse at his peak in GOW3.
That's part of my point. That means him suggesting pantheons are equal in power is an assumption since he doesn't know about all of the power other pantheons can bring out yet. We can't say Mimir belief's belief that all pantheons are equal in power is true yet say he is unaware of Geek myth having trump cards such as Hope and Fear or question if Kratos could beat Thor after knowing what Kratos has done. If the statement about all pantheons are equal in power is used as the reasoning for Greek scaling to Norse, we can't ignore Mimir questioning whether Kratos could beat Thor. Both can be true but the statement about all pantheons being equal has to not be because of power but rather each pantheon has its own strengths and weaknesses that equals each other out in terms of "power". It's possible that Greek's way of being equal to Norse isn't through attack potency but through hax, speed, or something else.


It's either the pantheons are all equal in power and Kratos is weaker than his original self or Mimir's word about other pantheons can't be taken as seriously as it does now and we look at the feats of the individual pantheons to determine who is stronger. If Mimir's word about pantheons being equal in power is the only reason that GOW3 Kratos is stronger than 2018 then I prefer the latter option. I personally think 2018 Kratos is indeed stronger based on WoG and the feats he scales to far outclassing even the highest feat in the Greek pantheon. Sure he doesn't seem like he's stronger but people would say Kratos doesn't seem like he's anything about town level at his peak, even ignoring the literal narrative reasons why Kratos "doesn't seem" like he's stronger than his GOW3 self (he's literally hiding he's a God from his son and nerfing himself).
 
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While feats wise Norse Kratos is above his Greek self technically, narratively he seems somewhat weaker to me, if even not overwhelmingly so. Whether that's him being rusty or him lacking his weapons and magics, I'm not sure.
Probably a mix between be very rusty due of him try to live a quite life and having lost his most powerful greek weapons/magic due of Astral Zeus.
 
I almost completely forgot that on top of time travel crazy shit, time passing differently in each realm has huge implications too. Like how time in Jotunheim passes faster than time in Midgard, time in Midgard is faster than time in Helheim etc. The scheming and trickery needed to formulate strategies around that are mind-boggling and Odin and Fey are absolute geniuses.

I think Vaneheim having an eclipse which we know means time is stopped in the lore could be something major. Maybe characters who are believed to be dead or missing are actually just stuck in time and because time in other realms assumingly progressed years and potentially decades onward people simply moved on. And Ragnarok would technically be happening at different times within the realms or might not have started at all in certain realms.

That also means the Norns are controlling the fate of most, if not all life across 9 different space-times which is also crazy too
 
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I almost completely forgot that on top of time travel crazy shit, time passing differently in each realm has huge implications too. Like how time in Jotunheim passes faster than time in Midgard, time in Midgard is faster than time in Helheim etc. The scheming and trickery needed to formulate strategies around that are mind-boggling and Odin and Fey are absolute geniuses.
That and the realms cannot be travelled in-between physically unless you have the Bifrost energy to open gateways between the realms (Like the Valkyries who still traverse the void distance between the Realms) and you can't enter the Realm Between the Realms without Mystic Gates or Bifrost Energy (Which again, the Valkyries have), and you can't travel the distance in the void without Bifrost Energy (Valkyries yet again) or the Unity Stone (Which is even faster because it's effectively a shortcut to other realms and pantheons). That and destroying one realm and its fabric of reality (Fabric of reality here meaning its entire space and time) does not affect the well-being of the other realms (Like how the Niflheim Realm tears only threaten to destroy Niflheim and can't destroy other realms, they need their own Realm Tears to be pulled off), which further proves the realms to be separate space-time continuums, as if the realms being reflections of each other sharing the same physical space (That being Yggdrasil's branches that stretch to infinity) yet being completely separate alternate planes of existence wasn't proof enough.

I think Vaneheim having an eclipse which we know means time is stopped in the lore could be something major. Maybe characters who are believed to be dead or missing are actually just stuck in time and because time in other realms assumingly progressed years and potentially decades onward people simply moved on. And Ragnarok would technically be happening at different times within the realms or might not have started at all in certain realms.

That also means the Norns are controlling the fate of most, if not all life across 9 different space-times which is also crazy too
Aye, definitely crazy.
 
BTW, I find it funny that the Norse technically speaking have higher AP feats but have nowhere near the impressive amount of LS feats that the Greek Gods do, all the Norse backscale from Kratos at the moment.
They have higher AP feats but is it me or do they feel more....grounded? Like, Baldur vs Kratos aside, they aren't as spectacle based or large scale as the Greek Gods to me, though that's not really a bad thing.
 
True. Baldur vs Kratos was really on some Man of steel shit, and apparently it was supposed to be crazier as I've heard that Baldur was originally supposed to throw an entire mountain at Kratos, and he'd knock it to dust.

But other than that first fight, it felt more human.


But I think Ragnarok is going to up the scale.
 
Me 2. This more grounded take kinda makes those hard to pull off now. That dragon was lame. But at least they've pull the camera back a bit. That definitely interfered. Couldn't imagine cronos or Poseidon like that.

I honestly think they removed too much of the OG GOW.
They probably think so as well, which is why they are bringing back some old mechanics.
 
I hope they remedy that on the PC version, whenever that arrives. PC version sorely needs official FoV sliders in degrees, hopefully it will have twice as many accesibility options as the console version, while having similar graphical options as RDR2. Can't stand motion blur or depth of field or shitty Temporal Anti-Aliasing in any of my games.
 
I can't wait to see all the Transportation methods. That looked like some type of airship or something in the trailer, looked interesting.

Would be cool if Kratos had a horse.

That and maybe give Kratos some Valkyrie wings and let him fly like the wings of Icarus. You could even use them for realm travel as the Valkyries can physically fly between the realms.
 
That and maybe give Kratos some Valkyrie wings and let him fly like the wings of Icarus. You could even use them for realm travel as the Valkyries can physically fly between the realms.
And in terms of gameplay it can work like a mix between Icarus Wings and Boots of Hermes, allowing Kratos to jump further and move him quicker in combat.
 
Also, am I the only one that would be fine if we didn't get Mjolnir? I mean it would be a repeat of GOW3 and give us a carbon copy of what we already have in the Axe, just using lighting.

I definitely want to use it ofc, just saying I wouldn't lose sleep if we didn't get it, and would actually understand.

Or Maybe Thor and Kratos swap for a while? He takes Kratos' axe, Kratos takes his hammer.

I think I actually want Odin's spear more.
 
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