God of War: Concepts of War and Fear

[Aetheric Pariah]

Yeah, hope became dormant after the fight when his guilt was at an all time high, he started losing his mind because getting revenge on Ares brought him no peace and he tried to kill himself. He 100% used Hope against ares, because what other power would he have used? It's literally the only power up he got to face Ares, and a massive one at that.

 

[ATalentedMaid]

Power of Hope was already inside Kratos since he opened the box it just that he awakened hope in GoW3 after getting slap by Fear Zeus.

• In God of War, it was believed that Kratos had absorbed the evils of Pandora's Box in order to defeat Ares. However, Kratos had actually consumed the power of Hope to gain the strength to defeat Ares.
• Eventually, with the help of Pandora, Kratos managed to forgive himself while wandering throughout the fear and chaos of his soul and reawakened the long-dormant power of Hope. With the power of Hope, Kratos was able to defeat the spirit of Zeus.

 

[Hellbeast]

I agree with conceptual GoW and abstract existence and whatnot.

But I am curious as to whether Zeus could get precognition or at least some form of clairvoyance (akin to Gaia's) as he was able to dig a grave for Kratos to get out of the underworld, a whole week before the latter died. This happened in GoW 1 iirc.

That's actually fairly good, do we know it's the same grave?

I've seen the death destroyer of worlds line be stated as hyperbolic, but those are by people who think kratos isn't above city block.

Where exactly?

With the current scaling, and how the rest of the verse is, definitely not hyperbolic. I believe the destroyer of worlds is symbolic, and could be a slight hint that he would be going to other pantheons, but that's unfounded.

I doubt it; at this point in the setting, the Gods of Olympus were the be all and end all

There were easter eggs and elements linking to wider pantheons (and it was part of an earlier draft for GOWIII) but it wasn't until recently that stuff became concrete.

The whole death part to me seems literal as all hell, it always was. The way Zeus said it, one word, and the fact thanatos quite literally smiled when kratos killed me, showing he accepted his fate and realized he could finally die and be rid of the hellish existence he had been living.

It's literally the exact same phrasing as a quote used to reference the nuclear bombs; the parallel is Kratos becoming such a destructive force (having lost all traces to his humanity) and is to help set in stone his fate as the Apocalypse for Greece. I'd add the moment of reflection before Zeus' statement since I think it adds to this interpretation.
Kratos has nothing left in his life but rage and pain, his wife and child are dead (and lost beyond death), his mother is dead, his father was absent (to his knowledge) and his brother just died before his eyes.

It's meant to represent Kratos crossing that event horizon, bridging GOW1 with II and III's portrayal of Kratos who's done with this shitYeah, hope became dormant after the fight when his guilt was at an all time high, he started losing his mind because getting revenge on Ares brought him no peace and he tried to kill himself. He 100% used Hope against ares, because what other power would he have used? It's literally the only power up he got to face Ares, and

As for Thanatos smiling
He's just realized that Ares chose the wrong Marked Warrior all those years ago and that everything Kratos has done has been leading to that annihilation. He even has an extended monologue talking about how nothing Kratos does is by his own will; that he is simply a pawn in a game he doesn't even know about.

Not exactly because again, the power of hope was sealed away in pandora's box, and kratos took in the power of hope when he finally opened it in GoW 1, the only other thing that was in the box was the evils that was sealed after the titan war, so it wouldn't make any sense for Hope to not be what gave Kratos the boost in the fight.

Yeah, hope became dormant after the fight when his guilt was at an all time high, he started losing his mind because getting revenge on Ares brought him no peace and he tried to kill himself. He 100% used Hope against ares, because what other power would he have used? It's literally the only power up he got to face Ares, and a massive one at that.

Power of Hope was already inside Kratos since he opened the box it just that he awakened hope in GoW3 after getting slap by Fear Zeus.

• In God of War, it was believed that Kratos had absorbed the evils of Pandora's Box in order to defeat Ares. However, Kratos had actually consumed the power of Hope to gain the strength to defeat Ares.
• Eventually, with the help of Pandora, Kratos managed to forgive himself while wandering throughout the fear and chaos of his soul and reawakened the long-dormant power of Hope. With the power of Hope, Kratos was able to defeat the spirit of Zeus.

I KNOW
I'm saying it would not have been active during this point since he doesn't unlock it's true potential until he confronts Fear Zeus and lets go of his self hatred and guilt and he fell back into that same cycle of self hatred with the nightmares and the loss of his mother and brother.

 

[Theglassman12]

So you do agree that he gains it in GoW 1 right? If that's the case then I think we have enough supporters to apply the changes here.

That's actually fairly good, do we know it's the same grave?

Yes, it's literally the same exact grave that he dug to save kratos from the underworld

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

As for Thanatos smiling He's just realized that Ares chose the wrong Marked Warrior all those years ago and that everything Kratos has done has been leading to that annihilation. He even has an extended monologue talking about how nothing Kratos does is by his own will; that he is simply a pawn in a game he doesn't even know about.

Yes, and he abhorred the gods because they treated him as a glorified baby sitter and slave. He smiled because he was going to die, and as literal death he didn't think that was possible, and he knew kratos would bring about the end of the Gods, which he would've loved to see happen.

We know ad infinitum that kratos' blades absorb the life force of enemies. Kratos rips open the chest of thanatos and stabs him with both blades. This of course would be an insane absorption feat, but it makes sense in line with what the blades do. He doesn't even hold the title for long anyway, cause he pours all his power into the blade at the beginning of 2. On top of getting his powers absorbed/nulled by Zeus as well (and we know Zeus can strip gods of their powers as well for their insolence.) All he did was maintain the duality, willingly or unknowingly.

As for what mega said, it's extremely blatant. Idk if it falls under clairvoyance or precognition, but it's either of the two.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

As for what mega said, it's extremely blatant. Idk if it falls under clairvoyance or precognition, but it's either of the two

Its both, since its looking into the future.
And Claiyarvoyance for knowing about things from beyond one's own dimension and field of vision.

 

[Hellbeast]

So you do agree that he gains it in GoW 1 right? If that's the case then I think we have enough supporters to apply the changes here.

I do; I just feel we should explictly note its his Pandora's Box/Hope Self (I have my own plans for that but I can't say here)

Yes, and he abhorred the gods because they treated him as a glorified baby sitter and slave. He smiled because he was going to die, and as literal death he didn't think that was possible, and he knew kratos would bring about the end of the Gods, which he would've loved to see happen.

It's a combination I thinkl; he hates the Gods and he just realised they screwed up

We know ad infinitum that kratos' blades absorb the life force of enemies. Kratos rips open the chest of thanatos and stabs him with both blades. This of course would be an insane absorption feat, but it makes sense in line with what the blades do.

He does absorb life force to heal himself but I don't know if that necessarily means he absorbed the Abstract nature of Thanatos; if he did we'd see him acquire more powers outright from his fallen enemies without using their weapons or being granted powers by the Gods and Titans

The closest is him taking the magic powers but those are seemingly granted regardless

He doesn't even hold the title for long anyway, cause he pours all his power into the blade at the beginning of 2. On top of getting his powers absorbed/nulled by Zeus as well (and we know Zeus can strip gods of their powers as well for their insolence.) All he did was maintain the duality, willingly or unknowingly.

He holds the power for about 13 years canonically So it’s fairly relevant

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

<I do; I just feel we should explictly note its his Pandora's Box/Hope Self (I have my own plans for that but I can't say here)

Agree, it becomes locked after he wants to kill himself
<It's a combination I thinkl; he hates the Gods and he just realised they screwed up

Exactly
<He does absorb life force to heal himself but I don't know if that necessarily means he absorbed the Abstract nature of Thanatos; if he did we'd see him acquire more powers outright from his fallen enemies without using their weapons or being granted powers by the Gods and Titans
The closest is him taking the magic powers but those are seemingly granted regardless

My point though. It has the capability to do so. Everything is there is allow this to happen, on top of the Zeus quote sets this up nicely.
<He holds the power for about 13 years canonically So it’s fairly relevant

~13 years where absolutely nothing happened narratively. Him directly taking thanatos' powers is irrelevant in the grand scheme anyway, cause thanatos was fodder to Zeus, just like Ares was. Fodder+Fodder=Fodder.
Mind you, none of this is unfounded. The OG script for GoW had modern day soldiers finding cronos' body in the desert with the temple, and had kratos becoming death itself wielding the scythe.
Cory has high respect and admiration for Dave Jaffe, he continued Jaffe's tradition and mindset of not giving GoW a subtitle with 4. I know cory and jaffe wasn't directly involved in games after 2, but jaffe's foundations for the series and such carry weight. The writing team were influenced by the "creator" of GoW obviously.

Bit of War

Bit of War is an 8-bit God of War de-make developed and created by Holmade Games. It is available to download for free on the PC. Bit of War follows Kratos' assault on Olympus and is quite similar story-wise to David Jaffe's version of God of War III. Kratos' journey begins when he is scaling...

godofwar.fandom.com

This for example.

 

[Hellbeast]

Agree, it becomes locked after he wants to kill himself

Glad to see we agree

My point though. It has the capability to do so. Everything is there is allow this to happen, on top of the Zeus quote sets this up nicely.

I mean there's a wide difference between taking life force and whole ass powers

~13 years where absolutely nothing happened narratively.

I mean kinda, since Ghost of Sparta and the comics take place in the earlier 13 years but if we argue that we could probably nuke his time as the GOW (This would be a separate timeline)

Him directly taking thanatos' powers is irrelevant in the grand scheme anyway, cause thanatos was fodder to Zeus, just like Ares was. Fodder+Fodder=Fodder.
Mind you, none of this is unfounded.

Thanatos is definitely Thanatos but not Ares, he's not as strong as Zeus but he has some interesting implications.
Either way that's irrelevant because God Kratos was implied to be a serious threat to Zeus by Hades and a few sources

The OG script for GoW had modern day soldiers finding cronos' body in the desert with the temple, and had kratos becoming death itself wielding the scythe.

That's kinda irrelevant since that clearly isn't what happened canonically, kinda like the ending with Kratos overseeing all conflicts for eternity.

Cory has high respect and admiration for Dave Jaffe, he continued Jaffe's tradition and mindset of not giving GoW a subtitle with 4. I know cory and jaffe wasn't directly involved in games after 2, but jaffe's foundations for the series and such carry weight. The writing team were influenced by the "creator" of GoW obviously.

Bit of War

Bit of War is an 8-bit God of War de-make developed and created by Holmade Games. It is available to download for free on the PC. Bit of War follows Kratos' assault on Olympus and is quite similar story-wise to David Jaffe's version of God of War III. Kratos' journey begins when he is scaling...

godofwar.fandom.com

This for example.

Bit of War is fanmade isn't it?
Either way, they definitely have respect for Jaffe but we shouldn't be using elements that don't make their way into the series proper (otherwise all the Gods have Type 4 and 8)

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I mean there's a wide difference between taking life force and whole ass powers

I guess the Blades need power absorption if not already listed....oh they already have it listed.

Also....
Kratos forcefully absorbing.....Thera's power.


This is not the only example by the way.......there's more throughout the series.

 

[Hellbeast]

I guess the Blades need power absorption if not already listed....oh they already have it listed.

Absorption (Can drain the life force and magic energies of opponents on contact with them)
The page specifically mentions life force and magic energies, not that it would give Kratos all the powers of those he slays.

Also....
Kratos forcefully absorbing.....Thera's power.

Thera offered her power first.
Again saying he absorbs fire to enhance his blades is very different to "he absorbed the Abstract Embodying nature of Thanatos by killing him"

This is not the only example by the way.......there's more throughout the series.

Link them and we can amend the page

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Will respond to this in evening, cuz I am lazy.(classes and afternoon nap).

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Either way that's irrelevant because God Kratos was implied to be a serious threat to Zeus by Hades and a few sources

Laughable. It was in the GoW 2 novel, directly after zeus was twirling a lightning bolt between his hands and made both Poseidon and hades shiver in fear. Zeus straight up said he could have ended kratos at any time he wanted, ancient laws forbid so, so he had to remove Kratos' powers. He casually hard nulled kratos. End of GoW 2 Kratos>>>>>Beginning of GoW 2. End of GoW 2 was still getting toyed by Zeus, and it took a major PIS for kratos to even "beat" him.

 

[Hellbeast]

Laughable. It was in the GoW 2 novel, directly after zeus was twirling a lightning bolt between his hands and made both Poseidon and hades shiver in fear. Zeus straight up said he could have ended kratos at any time he wanted, ancient laws forbid so, so he had to remove Kratos' powers.

Zeus is very notably arrogant and considering that very same section has him actively shutting down rebellion it’s unlikely he’d admit that

Ares was already top tier among the Gods and Zeus pretty damn well feared that Kratos had the power to slay him (I believe there’s quotes somewhere in the novel)

He casually hard nulled kratos. End of GoW 2 Kratos>>>>>Beginning of GoW 2. End of GoW 2 was still getting toyed by Zeus, and it took a major PIS for kratos to even "beat" him.

Via hax and the element of surprise; not with his offensive attacks or by one on one combat.
Kratos was still able to break Zeus’ arm and could definitely harm him more then you’re implying here (although yeah he does use Zeus’ arrogance)

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

It's not arrogance. It's blatant PIS because they had to make another game, so narratively and power wise kratos being on par/beating Zeus at the end of 2 made absolutely no sense. Kratos "tricking" a genius character who had no reason to indulge himself in kratos' antics is idiotic, especially when it's the only time in the series kratos resorts to something like that. Zeus never says he believes kratos could beat him at any moment during 2, the fight was him slowly walking towards kratos, then casually blitzing him, lifting him up in the air, taking the blade and tossing kratos around the arena a bunch of times. Kratos at the end of 3 was clearly far more powerful than before, and fought on par with Zeus during the whole fight, eventually beating him at the end after a long struggle. This is the same kratos who got KO'd by Gyges. I'm assuming you don't believe Gyges is legitimate threat to Zeus lol.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Thera offered her power first.
Again saying he absorbs fire to enhance his blades is very different to "he absorbed the Abstract Embodying nature of Thanatos by killing him"

I don't know how anything about that appears willing bestowal of power.
Thera Offered it he rejected it, outright refusing to help her. Forcefully Ripped here powers and escaped. This is power absorption feat.

This is how willing power bestowal looks like.
Gods:-Zeus, Artemis, Poseidon, Aphrodite, Hades.
Titans:-Cronos, Atlas, Prometheus, Gaia.

This is how power absorption looks.
Ascension( Ares, Zeus, Hades, Poseidon), Chains of Olympus(Elysium, Ifreet), GoW2(Typhon).

Precedence of Power Absorption is in my favour.

Will respond to rest of stuff later.

 

[Hellbeast]

It's not arrogance. It's blatant PIS because they had to make another game, so narratively and power wise kratos being on par/beating Zeus at the end of 2 made absolutely no sense

It really isn’t
Zeus is smart but he clearly does have a god complex (haha) and his internal monologues within the novel do portray him as being arrogant (hell his language implies this to be the case before Fear)

. Kratos "tricking" a genius character who had no reason to indulge himself in kratos' antics is idiotic, especially when it's the only time in the series kratos resorts to something like that.

Zeus wanted Kratos to kneel; to acknowledge his godhood and kingship, he even mentions In the cutscene he confronts Kratos that he would allow him to live if Kratos recognised his superiority and swear absolute fealty to him.

Kratos used that when he was desperate to bait Zeus

Zeus never says he believes kratos could beat him at any moment during 2, the fight was him slowly walking towards kratos, then casually blitzing him, lifting him up in the air, taking the blade and tossing kratos around the arena a bunch of times. Kratos at the end of 3 was clearly far more powerful than before, and fought on par with Zeus during the whole fight, eventually beating him at the end after a long struggle.

My point isn’t that Zeus said he’s a threat outright; it’s that the wider context implies Zeus considered him one as a God

This is the same kratos who got KO'd by Gyges. I'm assuming you don't believe Gyges is legitimate threat to Zeus lol.

Wasn’t that early on in his reign as the GOW?

Either way I’ll drop this since it starts to get into my planned revisions

 

[ATalentedMaid]

So, what has been accepted here so far?

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Technique Mimicry, Precog, and Clairvoyance are the recently brought up things, need input on those.
The OP's proposals seem to be accepted, with kratos' concept manip up in the air a little bit, so I guess that should get more input too.

 

[Hellbeast]

I think it seems in acceptance of Concept Manipulation but we could probably get some opinions on that

 

[Theglassman12]

Pretty sure we got enough support on the concept stuff.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

I would like to get concrete approval on Zeus having clairvoyance and Precog tho. It is extremely blatant and kinda sacrilege it isn't on his profile yet.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Elizhaa do you approve Zeus gaining precognition/clairvoyance from predicting Kratos’ death?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I remember this was a long time coming, I agreed back then, still fine for me here

Yes I'm kinda late

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

I should note that adding this to Zeus would also scale to Kratos as well since Zeus could not see him coming via time travel at the end of 2. Makes sense considering kratos at this point utterly resists Fate Manip and gained the fates powers to time travel and such, and the fates are well established to be well above Zeus, and stand atop the pantheon (at least in terms of abilities and pure control over everything else.) This is also backed by the fact Zeus was utterly shocked when he saw kratos after getting knocked down, and immediately drew the conclusion that he had help from the fates, since they would be the only people above him in terms of capability.
It's kinda hard to add something to kratos or Zeus, and not have it scale to the other tbh.
Kratos already resists clairvoyance as well, at least possibly anyway. Although the evidence is enough for it to have the possibly removed, but I digress.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I also agree with that ^

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I Agree

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Lahkesis (God of War)

Lahkesis is one of the three Sisters of Fate alongside Atropos and Clotho, who are responsible for determining the destinies of both gods and mortals alike. The sisters are so powerful that even Zeus fears their power, and his father Cronos gave to them the Steeds of Time, in a failed attempt to...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Atropos (God of War)

Atropos is one of the Three Sisters of Fate, alongside Lahkesis and Clotho, who control and decide the destinies of every living being, mortals and gods alike. She and her sisters are so powerful that Gods and Titans fear and respect their power. Even Cronos himself tried to bribe the Sisters by...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Somehow Kratos does not resist their abilities on profile......another blasphemy.

Also Sisters Lack Retrocognition. Another thing to be added.

 

[Planck69]

The new proposals look fine.

 

[Hellbeast]

Lahkesis (God of War)

Lahkesis is one of the three Sisters of Fate alongside Atropos and Clotho, who are responsible for determining the destinies of both gods and mortals alike. The sisters are so powerful that even Zeus fears their power, and his father Cronos gave to them the Steeds of Time, in a failed attempt to...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Atropos (God of War)

Atropos is one of the Three Sisters of Fate, alongside Lahkesis and Clotho, who control and decide the destinies of every living being, mortals and gods alike. She and her sisters are so powerful that Gods and Titans fear and respect their power. Even Cronos himself tried to bribe the Sisters by...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Somehow Kratos does not resist their abilities on profile......another blasphemy.

Also Sisters Lack Retrocognition. Another thing to be added.

Tbh the profiles for the Sisters kinda suck and need to be fixed

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Well so.....can we start applying the stuff.
Lets with what was posted first.

 

[Huzy]

While you're at it, I kinda forgot but can you add the sub relativistic+ ratings for Chains of Olympus Kratos and Persephone, this was agreed on but never applied in the speed CRT. You can find the calc in the speed CRT.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Yeah a lot of stuff gets accepted but never applied with GoW, I'd do it but i'm afraid I mess up the page real bad, i'm not good at that stuff

 

[Planck69]

Can someone summarise what's supposed to be added and what's been agreed upon? I can add it later today.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Kratos:

Acausality Type 1 (Is unaffected by his past self dying)

Holy Light Projection via Head of Helios which ignores the durability of demons or demonic creatures, (Scaling from Light of Dawn, Light of Dawn comes from Helios Power)
Abstract Existence (Type 2)
Intangibility Negation via Head of Helios (Can Nullify Siren Seductress Intangibility.)
Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) for PoH Kratos (Easily Resisted and Overpowered Fear Zeus)
Conceptual Resistance
Technique Mimicry (Copied Zeus)
Resistance to Precognition
sub relativistic+ ratings for Chains of Olympus Kratos (and Persephone)

Zeus:

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) for Fear Zeus (Wields Fear itself)

Abstract Existence (Type 1)

Enhanced Fear Manipulation

Immortality (Type 8)
Precognition
Clairvoyance

Unrelated, but on the topic of kratos not getting stuff applied, there was a thread where it was brought up hades and Zeus should have interdimensional range and dimensional travel but was never applied. idk if it was accepted or what, but was wondering if we could apply it.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/hades-god-of-war-additions-and-one-removal.117562/#post-3812581

 

[Planck69]

Wait, why does Zeus have Type 8 Immortality?

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I think it's the same reason why Kratos has type 8 based on PoH, except Zeus relies on Fear.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Yes, he would have type 8 as long as he has fear. Kratos pulls it out/banishes it from Zeus, blatantly shown in-game and WoG backed

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Well everyone knows difference between Soul NPI and Soul Manip right??
I hope you guys do....cuz similar logic applies to concepts.

For Kratos:-
●Concept Manipulation Type 2(Alteration) :- (Kratos beat the Fear out Zeus and made it gone.. Can also channel Hope in all of his attacks.)
●Resistance Negation.(Conceptual Type 2):-(Can negate his own immunities to Evils and release Hope back to mankind by by trying to kill himself)
●Immortality Type 5 and 8 Negation :- (Hope is superior to Flame of Olympus which can kill Pandora who is niether dead nor Alive. Also killed Zeus)

●Resistance to Immortality Type 8 Negation.(Failed to Kill himself despite being able to kill Zeus.)

Will post anything missing later.....

There is this too...something I posted just before Elizhaa's post.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

<Resistance Negation.(Conceptual Type 2):-(Can negate his own immunities to Evils and release Hope back to mankind by by trying to kill himself)
This was debunked, or at least not accepted. Everything else is ok