God of War: Concepts of War and Fear

[Elizhaa]

Just commenting on the type of the concept, primordials predated reality so, based on the blog, the concepts like Fear and Hatred do too. Given the fact such concepts already shaped reality from the evidence, I could see them being Type 2 concepts. Predating reality, asides from existing after reality destruction, is one of the ways by application a concept can be shown to be transcendent of reality.
2. False Platonic Concept: Such concepts, or forms, are mostly transcendent of reality. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts. These concepts interact with their objects in the same manner as listed above. In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept on whatever scale has been shown.

I am kind of waiting on comments on these points.
I guess I am cool with others stuffs that Glassman and Planck agreed.

 

[Theglassman12]

Considering how Hope and Fear is considered far superior to anything else in the verse it could be type 2 concept hax.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Awesome analysis of the entire premise by Elizhaa,
Considering how these Evils have been affecting Uranus and Cronos even before entire reality was forged, it clearly is superior to Primordials who predate the reality.
Zeus sealing away the concepts clearly affected the entire reality. Because thier influence was reduced.
Its subsequent release by Kratos affected gods themselves.
And finally Kratos in GoW3 gave Hope and Fear back to Humans.

I accept Elizhaa's points.

 

[Theglassman12]

Pretty sure he only gave Hope back, Fear was just gone.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Hmmmm.....
Well we do see when Kratos gives back hope it leaves his body in a fantastical fashion.
Even something as simple as a God's death takes toll on the reality in major way.
Meanwhile Fear just dissipated......

Hmmm.....Yeah.....its gone.
Thanks for new perspective and correction.

 

[Planck69]

Elizhaa does make a good point regarding the way concepts predate reality. I can see it being Type 2 concept-hax as well.

 

[Hellbeast]

I'm chill with this

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

So fear, hope, and the rest of the evils would be type 2 via predating reality, and directly influencing the primordials to fight for eons and eons. I agree

 

[Elizhaa]

I guess concept type 2 is accepted, then.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

 

[ATalentedMaid]

Nice ,but there is some a few things left here.

 

[ATalentedMaid]

For Kratos:-
●Concept Manipulation Type 2(Alteration) :- (Kratos beat the Fear out Zeus and made it gone.. Can also channel Hope in all of his attacks.)
●Resistance Negation.(Conceptual Type 2):-(Can negate his own immunities to Evils and release Hope back to mankind by by trying to kill himself)
●Immortality Type 5 and 8 Negation :- (Hope is superior to Flame of Olympus which can kill Pandora who is niether

I'm fine with this to

Resistance to Immortality Type 8 Negation.(Failed to Kill himself despite being able to kill Zeus.)

But for this, This is to vague for me, as we know that Kratos purpose was to release Hope to humanity not to kill himself

 

[Theglassman12]

Actually now that I think about it, considering the primordials are already accepted as concepts a while ago, and Kratos could kill Thanatos back in Ghost of Sparda, a good chunk of these should scale back to his GoW1 key since he could kill the concept of death.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

kills the concept of death
people still die regardless

You sure they actually are concepts?

 

[Theglassman12]

Considering they’re stated to be such numerous times, yes they are.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

But for this, This is to vague for me, as we know that Kratos purpose was to release Hope to humanity not to kill himself

Both actually....
He had accomplished all he wanted and came to understanding with himself.
He found nothing to live for.
Also he no more wanted to comply with Athena...who was possessed with Greed iirc.
So he tried to hit two birds with one stone.
Kill himself and Release hope to the world.
Obviously failed to do the former.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Considering they’re stated to be such numerous times, yes they are.

Yeah, but when they are shown nothing happens to the concept (at least concerning thanatos)

 

[Theglassman12]

By this logic the fact that Fear itself was inside of Zeus the entire time means no one else is supposed to be scared of anything if we’re arguing semantics here.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Besides, these are Concept Alteration feat, The Thanatos killing I mean....In fact every god killed is warping their respective domains of reality.
Not destroying it.
Soooooo..


Also Kratos become Death , The Destroyer of Worlds.

 

[Planck69]

People still dying can be considered as slight inconsistency I suppose. Not sure how else to handle it since Thanatos is explicitly the personification of death.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

The evils were powerful enough that they were completely sealed and remnants still remained

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

By this logic the fact that Fear itself was inside of Zeus the entire time means no one else is supposed to be scared of anything if we’re arguing semantics here.

the concept of death and fear were destroyed/killed, right? If they are gone then no one should feel fear or fall dead as those concepts aren't part of their world any more but surprise, surprise it still happens.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

the concept of death and fear were destroyed/killed, right? If they are gone then no one should feel fear or fall dead as those concepts aren't part of their world any more but surprise, surprise it still happens.

No one said destroyed though....Only Alteration is mentioned.

 

[Theglassman12]

Fear wasn’t killed, it was sealed away and then formed into Zeus. Again by your logic no one should be scared because fear was sealed away. At that point you’re arguing semantics over the blatant statements for these power sources.

 

[Purgy]

Fear wasn’t killed, it was sealed away and then formed into Zeus. Again by your logic no one should be scared because fear was sealed away. At that point you’re arguing semantics over the blatant statements for these power sources.

It's not really semantics, it's more like clear antifeats for them being Type 2 concepts.

If they were truly destroyed/sealed or whatever, people wouldn't die, they wouldn't be fearful nor would they feel hope.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

The guy above gets what I'm trying to say

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

If they were truly destroyed/sealed or whatever, people wouldn't die, they wouldn't be fearful nor would they feel hope.

Sealed doesn't end their influence over reality, infact it's shows how little they are affected by outside machinations.
The were primarily sealed to keep them in check and control.

Also they weren't destroyed, so please stop bringing it up.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Also we are forgetting Thanatos is a Primordial existing before Titans and Gods.
Before Existence of reality itself.


Also..

God of War + Death.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Thanatos: I receive freedom and being released from my endless misery, you receive my powers and title.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

I'd also like to propose technique mimicry for Kratos for copying what Zeus did with the blade at the beginning of 3 (first magic attack you get) after watching Zeus do it for a couple seconds when he went back in time.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I agree with this btw

 

[Hellbeast]

Actually now that I think about it, considering the primordials are already accepted as concepts a while ago, and Kratos could kill Thanatos back in Ghost of Sparda, a good chunk of these should scale back to his GoW1 key since he could kill the concept of death.

I’m unsure if Thanatos counts; people still die throughout the series and it might not even scale to GOWI (since we currently have it under his time as the God of War)

Besides, these are Concept Alteration feat, The Thanatos killing I mean....In fact every god killed is warping their respective domains of reality.
Not destroying it.
Soooooo..

It’s still a lot more then what we see happen with Thanatos’ death but idk

Also Kratos become Death , The Destroyer of Worlds.

tbh I think that’s just a reference to Kratos’ current lack of humanity (it’s verbatim a line used to reference nuclear bombs)

 

[Theglassman12]

That power he gained in GoW1, he didn’t really gain anything else that allowed him to kill Thanatos who is the primordial of death. So killing death itself would grant you some form of conceptual manipulation.

 

[Hellbeast]

I'd also like to propose technique mimicry for Kratos for copying what Zeus did with the blade at the beginning of 3 (first magic attack you get) after watching Zeus do it for a couple seconds when he went back in time.

Couldn’t that just Be inherent to the Blade rather then copying any techniques? Especially since he never copied techniques like this again (iirc)

That power he gained in GoW1, he didn’t really gain anything else that allowed him to kill Thanatos who is the primordial of death. So killing death itself would grant you some form of conceptual manipulation.

I’m not saying it wouldn’t, I’m saying since he became a God at this point in the timeline it’d probably just be that (unless I’m missing something)

 

[Theglassman12]

He did gain said god powers when he opened Pandora’s box, and further proven by the fact that Kratos always had Hope with him after the events of 1 since the box was empty and Athena realized that to be the case.

 

[Hellbeast]

He did gain said god powers when he opened Pandora’s box, and further proven by the fact that Kratos always had Hope with him after the events of 1 since the box was empty and Athena realized that to be the case.

He gained god powers yeah but Hope was mostly dormant within him I believe

This definitely starts to get into tiering revisions I’m planning on my end tho so maybe we could discuss this over Discord?

 

[Megaquake2012]

I agree with conceptual GoW and abstract existence and whatnot.

But I am curious as to whether Zeus could get precognition or at least some form of clairvoyance (akin to Gaia's) as he was able to dig a grave for Kratos to get out of the underworld, a whole week before the latter died. This happened in GoW 1 iirc.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

I've seen the death destroyer of worlds line be stated as hyperbolic, but those are by people who think kratos isn't above city block. With the current scaling, and how the rest of the verse is, definitely not hyperbolic. I believe the destroyer of worlds is symbolic, and could be a slight hint that he would be going to other pantheons, but that's unfounded. The whole death part to me seems literal as all hell, it always was. The way Zeus said it, one word, and the fact thanatos quite literally smiled when kratos killed me, showing he accepted his fate and realized he could finally die and be rid of the hellish existence he had been living.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

I agree with conceptual GoW and abstract existence and whatnot.

But I am curious as to whether Zeus could get precognition or at least some form of clairvoyance (akin to Gaia's) as he was able to dig a grave for Kratos to get out of the underworld, a whole week before the latter died. This happened in GoW 1 iirc.

Thank you, was literally about to say exactly this. The fact Zeus doesn't have this is mind boggling.

 

[Theglassman12]

He gained god powers yeah but Hope was mostly dormant within him I believe

Not exactly because again, the power of hope was sealed away in pandora's box, and kratos took in the power of hope when he finally opened it in GoW 1, the only other thing that was in the box was the evils that was sealed after the titan war, so it wouldn't make any sense for Hope to not be what gave Kratos the boost in the fight.

But I am curious as to whether Zeus could get precognition or at least some form of clairvoyance (akin to Gaia's) as he was able to dig a grave for Kratos to get out of the underworld, a whole week before the latter died. This happened in GoW 1 iirc.

Yeah he should have it tbh.