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God of War: Concepts of War and Fear

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Rez said:
Killing someone with type 2 ae will require some form of concept manipulation because of that type 8 concept based immortality
Click to expand...
Killing someone with AE 2 doesnt requires conceptual manipulation, as you arent killing the concept itself, just the person that relies on it
 
Rez said:
Killing someone with type 2 ae requires some sort of concept manipulation because of that type 8 concept based immortality
Click to expand...
It doesn't. At most it's Type 8 Immortality Negation.
 
ATalentedMaid said:
Has the same reason as zeus actually.

And finally, Athena realizes - the embodiment of Hope, as she had placed on the box, was also released, and it gave Kratos the power to completely overcome the evils themselves.

And upon hearing this, Kratos realizes the meaning of what Pandora had told him.

Click to expand...
This...tells me nothing about why Kratos should have Conceptual Manipulation.
 
Bernkastelll said:
Killing someone with AE 2 doesnt requires conceptual manipulation, as you arent killing the concept itself, just the person that relies on it
Click to expand...
Type 2: Embodies an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering it
 
Rez said:
Type 2: Embodies an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering it
Click to expand...
U dont need to destroy the abstraction to stop them, a simple negation of their conection with the abstraction is enough
 
Question, The blog itself explained that Hope and Fear in God of War are abstract in nature, Shouldn't this also grant PoH Kratos AE type 2 as well?
 
@Planck69 in the end of GoW 3 Kratos literally has the power of hope to empowering his entire being, to where he not only can affect fear by touching him but also amp his weapons with hope itself. Shouldn’t that count as concept manipulation since he’s literally using Hope itself to fight?
 
He essentially became hope, he is hope. He's the hope that will free mankind from the tyranny of the Gods, which is exactly what he did at the end of 3. He gave hope itself to mankind.
 
So we have accepted everything except for Kratos Concept Manip.
We already accept Kratos Resistance (and this )to Concept Manip Type 3 so kek.

Everything's accepted for Zeus....except there is a problem with AE2.
Type 2: Embodies an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering it
Click to expand...
Thats inaccurate Description of Fear. We already established Fear as a Type 3 Concept.

That ethereal form of Zeus you see is Fear.
Granted he is influenced by Zeus and taken his shape. But Zeus was possessed by Fear itself not an embodiment of Fear nor an Avatar. The Ethereal Zeus form is Fear, not an embodiment.
Fear is a conceptual abstraction, thus is
AE Type 1.
Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.
Click to expand...
Also confirmed WoG.
So Fear gets AE Type 1.


Being Able to interact with Fear an abstraction is ....Enhanced NPI.
Kratos gets that.
 
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Theglassman12 said:
@Planck69 in the end of GoW 3 Kratos literally has the power of hope to empowering his entire being, to where he not only can affect fear by touching him but also amp his weapons with hope itself. Shouldn’t that count as concept manipulation since he’s literally using Hope itself to fight?
Click to expand...
I suppose if he manipulates the concept of hope then it should count. I'll see what other staff have to say though.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
So we have accepted everything except for Kratos Concept Manip.
We already accept Kratos Resistance (and this )to Concept Manip Type 3 so kek.

Everything's accepted for Zeus....except there is a problem with AE2.

Thats inaccurate Description of Fear. We already established Fear as a Type 3 Concept.

That ethereal form of Zeus you see is Fear.
Granted he is influenced by Zeus and taken his shape. But Zeus was possessed by Fear itself not an embodiment of Fear nor an Avatar. The Ethereal Zeus form is Fear, not an embodiment.
Fear is a conceptual abstraction, thus is
AE Type 1.

Also confirmed WoG.
So Fear gets AE Type 1.


Being Able to interact with Fear an abstraction is ....Enhanced NPI.
Kratos gets that.
Click to expand...
Ohh this make sense, i agree
 
Alright, This is gonna take a while but let me explain it for you.
  • when Zeus sealed the evils of the Titanomachy within Pandora's Box, Athena feared that the box would one day be opened and release the dark forces that it held. As a safeguard, she placed Hope - a power great enough to kill a God - inside the Box with the myriad evils.​
  • In God of War, it was believed that Kratos had absorbed the evils of Pandora's Box in order to defeat Ares. However, Kratos had actually consumed the power of Hope to gain the strength to defeat Ares.​
  • After his fall from Mount Olympus during the beginning of the Second Titanomachy, Kratos encountered Athena's Spirit in the Underworld. She advised him to seek out Pandora's Box once more, in order to use the power of Hope that she believed it still contained against Zeus. During his quest, Kratos met the living key to the Box's protection, Pandora, who strongly believed that Hope was the core force that let the living keep on living. However, when Kratos managed to open the Box, it was completely empty.​
  • Eventually, with the help of Pandora, Kratos managed to forgive himself while wandering throughout the fear and chaos of his soul and reawakened the long-dormant power of Hope. With the power of Hope, Kratos was able to defeat the spirit of Zeus.​
  • Athena then appears and demanded that Kratos return to her the power of Hope. Kratos then stated that the Box was empty. She didn't believe him at first but Athena then realized that the power of Hope that she initially hid inside the Box actually was absorbed by Kratos during his final battle with Ares while all the evils infected the Olympians, which corrupted them. As Kratos refused to give Athena the power of Hope as he was tired of always being used as a pawn, he instead impaled himself with the Blade of Olympus, and thereby released the power, which granted Hope to humanity.​
With that alone PoH Kratos should have AE type 2
Type 2: Embodies an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering it
Click to expand...
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
So we have accepted everything except for Kratos Concept Manip.
We already accept Kratos Resistance (and this )to Concept Manip Type 3 so kek.

Everything's accepted for Zeus....except there is a problem with AE2.

Thats inaccurate Description of Fear. We already established Fear as a Type 3 Concept.

That ethereal form of Zeus you see is Fear.
Granted he is influenced by Zeus and taken his shape. But Zeus was possessed by Fear itself not an embodiment of Fear nor an Avatar. The Ethereal Zeus form is Fear, not an embodiment.
Fear is a conceptual abstraction, thus is
AE Type 1.

Also confirmed WoG.
So Fear gets AE Type 1.


Being Able to interact with Fear an abstraction is ....Enhanced NPI.
Kratos gets that.
Click to expand...
Btw, I agree with this too.
 
ATalentedMaid said:
Alright, This is gonna take a while but let me explain it for you.
  • when Zeus sealed the evils of the Titanomachy within Pandora's Box, Athena feared that the box would one day be opened and release the dark forces that it held. As a safeguard, she placed Hope - a power great enough to kill a God - inside the Box with the myriad evils.​
  • In God of War, it was believed that Kratos had absorbed the evils of Pandora's Box in order to defeat Ares. However, Kratos had actually consumed the power of Hope to gain the strength to defeat Ares.​
  • After his fall from Mount Olympus during the beginning of the Second Titanomachy, Kratos encountered Athena's Spirit in the Underworld. She advised him to seek out Pandora's Box once more, in order to use the power of Hope that she believed it still contained against Zeus. During his quest, Kratos met the living key to the Box's protection, Pandora, who strongly believed that Hope was the core force that let the living keep on living. However, when Kratos managed to open the Box, it was completely empty.​
  • Eventually, with the help of Pandora, Kratos managed to forgive himself while wandering throughout the fear and chaos of his soul and reawakened the long-dormant power of Hope. With the power of Hope, Kratos was able to defeat the spirit of Zeus.​
  • Athena then appears and demanded that Kratos return to her the power of Hope. Kratos then stated that the Box was empty. She didn't believe him at first but Athena then realized that the power of Hope that she initially hid inside the Box actually was absorbed by Kratos during his final battle with Ares while all the evils infected the Olympians, which corrupted them. As Kratos refused to give Athena the power of Hope as he was tired of always being used as a pawn, he instead impaled himself with the Blade of Olympus, and thereby released the power, which granted Hope to humanity.​
With that alone PoH Kratos should have AE type 2
Click to expand...
I can agree too.
 
Well there is still a 2-3 minor but important things left besides above stuff....I was taking things piecemeal.
Will post them after we have some more positive consensus.
 
I agree with AE type 2 for kratos, I'll wait longer to see how everything pans out for Zeus, so neutral there. How's conceptual manip argument for kratos going though?
 
Well everyone knows difference between Soul NPI and Soul Manip right??
I hope you guys do....cuz similar logic applies to concepts.

For Kratos:-
●Concept Manipulation Type 2(Alteration) :- (Kratos beat the Fear out Zeus and made it gone.. Can also channel Hope in all of his attacks.)
●Resistance Negation.(Conceptual Type 2):-(Can negate his own immunities to Evils and release Hope back to mankind by by trying to kill himself)
●Immortality Type 5 and 8 Negation :- (Hope is superior to Flame of Olympus which can kill Pandora who is niether dead nor Alive. Also killed Zeus)
5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.
Click to expand...
●Resistance to Immortality Type 8 Negation.(Failed to Kill himself despite being able to kill Zeus.)

Will post anything missing later.....
 
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Also guys think hard, on the propsal above....
And whether or not you agree or disagree give me reasons so I can understand why its correct or wrong.
Since even I am going to look at this in 3rd person perspective to judge myself...

So Neutral on above post for now....solidly accept atleast Concept manip via ripping fear out of zeus and channeling Hope.
Also agree with Type 5 immortality negation.

Neutral on everything else.

Also I made this post when I was sleepy, so be easy on me.
 
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