Giving Aizen power null resistance

[Arcker123]

That's why I said "at times" and not all power null is the same. My analogy was literally based around AP, not the Aizen that you used. I was explaining the argument regarding those trying to compare hax to AP in general to show the difference. I have no issue with Aizen resisting the seals.

Not a specific response to you per say, but a general note for the thread.

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Anyway, What are the votes @?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Being real for a second. I f****** hate when people say this. No, there are people who haven't read it, which is why you as the knowledge user post the damn scan! This "have you read [insert thing here]?" question is stupid because you know the answer. Half of the stuff people comment on be it a staff member or a normal member is verses they don't know which is why context is needed otherwise people can add whatever they desire under the logic of "I know it and you don't".

My guy it was a legitimate question, I was asking so I could know if I had to bring in scans for DT, or if I could just reference sumn and he'd know what I'm referencing

 

[LordGriffin1000]

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Anyway, What are the votes @?

You said "per say" and commented on my analogy. Don't try and get out get out of it.

 

[Arcker123]

My guy it was a legitimate question, I was asking so I could know if I had to bring in scans for DT, or if I could just reference sumn and he'd know what I'm referencing

 

[LordGriffin1000]

My guy it was a legitimate question, I was asking so I could know if I had to bring in scans for DT, or if I could just reference sumn and he'd know what I'm referencing

Apologies then, since there is no what to discern that from a genuine question, especially when people like using that logic when debating, it really gets me riled up. I've seen it used to many times.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

If it were intended as an insult I would've thrown in an obligatory "dumbass" or sumn

Yeah hard to convey emotion throw text rather than vc

 

[Arcker123]

If it were intended as an insult I would've thrown in an obligatory "dumbass" or sumn

Yeah hard to convey emotion throw text rather than vc

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I swear you and D go out of y'all's way to make me look like the devil

 

[Arcker123]

I swear you and D go out of y'all's way to make me look like the devil

Im just a messenger of truth.

 

[AppleLord]

I nullified an explosion from a grenade, does this mean I'd be able to nullify an explosion that would destroy the universe? No, that reaches NLF. It's all about the abilities showings in this example.

I’ll literally do a short story about this to annoy you.

 

[Damage3245]

It seems possible to me that Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu was just never actually suppressed by the seals in the first place.

If you can use an ability, even when in a weakened state, it doesn't mean you have to be resistant to the weakning - it just means that you weren't weakened enough to prevent the ability from being used.

 

[Arcker123]

It seems possible to me that Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu was just never actually suppressed by the seals in the first place.

No way really?????

That’s why we think he has resistance . He was in seals that null its victims, and wasn’t affected. That’s a resistance feat. Not a defeater.

If you can use an ability, even when in a weakened state, it doesn't mean you have to be resistant to the weakning - it just means that you weren't weakened enough to prevent the ability from being used.

This is still a resistance . What’s the substantive difference here? He’s still not being affected, which is resistance, he’ll, his Kyoka only improved, and is not stated to be weakened at all. Hell, even being less affected by an ability is still resistance, meaning Aizen would still get it.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm saying I don't think that fully qualifies for resistance.



Also, simply not being affected doesn't necessarily mean Resistance. If somebody can manipulate fire is being power-nulled by someone who can stop Water Manipulation from occurring, then the guy doesn't have Resistance to Power Null just because he can still manipulate fire. (This is an analogy, not saying it is 1 to 1 with Aizen's circumstances)

 

[Arcker123]

I'm saying I don't think that fully qualifies for resistance.

Your justification for that seems rather Gish gallopy then substantive. I think both you and DT are jumping through enormous hoops to deny this. Fact is, Aizen was in seals that weaken abilities to the point of nulling (Azashiro lost his power to control things, his major ability) and Aizen suffered no ability loss with his Kyoka, and only showed better feats with it. That’s resistance.

Aizen ”not being weakened enough to lose his ability” means nothing and is borderline headcanon. Aizen still should have lost abilities if he was affected, as shown with Azashiro. There is no evidence the nulling seals have varying effectiveness based on people or sum similar, they simply just didn’t work on Aizen. That’s a resistance.

 

[AppleLord]

It seems possible to me that Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu was just never actually suppressed by the seals in the first place.

If you can use an ability, even when in a weakened state, it doesn't mean you have to be resistant to the weakning - it just means that you weren't weakened enough to prevent the ability from being used.

Aizen fused with KS.

KS = Aizen

Aizen = KS

Seals contain Aizen.

Seals contain KS.

Seals don’t contain KS.

Seals don’t contain Aizen.

Aizen and KS are one and the same.

Debunked your post easily.

Anything you have to say about KS applies to Aizen, easily debunking your comment.

 

[Damage3245]

@AppleLord; aren't you contradicting yourself? You can't have both "Seals contain KS" and "Seals don't contain KS". Both can't be true.

The reason for why one or the other is true determines whether or not Aizen gets Resistance. It isn't an automatic thing.

 

[T2KBaka]

@AppleLord; aren't you contradicting yourself? You can't have both "Seals contain KS" and "Seals don't contain KS". Both can't be true.

The reason for why one or the other is true determines whether or not Aizen gets Resistance. It isn't an automatic thing.

I think what he was trying to say was that "seals contain KS" as in Aizen is sealed and "seals don't contain KS" cuz it worked on Yhwach despite being sealed. At least that's what I think it is, not trying to argue anything myself.

 

[Arcker123]

The reason for why one or the other is true determines whether or not Aizen gets Resistance. It isn't an automatic thing.

One of our options “Yours” is an unsupported mesh of head canon and assumptions

Mine “Resistance” requires no assumptions whatsoever, just basic reasoning, what’s shown, and adherence to site standards

Not hard

 

[Damage3245]

One of our options “Yours” is an unsupported mesh of head canon and assumptions

Mine “Resistance” requires no assumptions whatsoever, just basic reasoning, what’s shown, and adherence to site standards

Not hard

What headcanon have I posted? All I said is that things aren't as straightforward as "Character using ability = Resistance to Power Null." Just because one option is simple doesn't mean it is automatically correct. It's not wrong to look at these things with a bit of nuance.

 

[Arcker123]

What headcanon have I posted?

it just means that you weren't weakened enough to prevent the ability from being used.

You’d have to prove how this applies to Aizen, otherwise it’s just worthless head canon. If it’s not relevant to Aizen than it’s just useless for this thread and your argument, and is thus just an overall time waster.

All I said is that things aren't as straightforward as "Character using ability = Resistance to Power Null."

It quite literally is. If x character is under circumstances where their abilities would be nulled, and they can use their abilities, that’s resistance to nulling. This is how all resistance to powernull feats work. You have to give justification as to why in verse it’s more complicated than that.

Just because one option is simple doesn't mean it is automatically correct.

Definition of OCCAM'S RAZOR

a scientific and philosophical rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Wasn’t even a claim of mine but go on.

It's not wrong to look at these things with a bit of nuance.

It’s not nuance, it’s just convoluted and baseless garbage.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arcker123; I can understand if you're frustrated but you're responding to me in an unnecessary manner. I'll leave this thread for now and advise you to chill out, or at least debate in a more polite manner.

 

[Arcker123]

@Arcker123; I can understand if you're frustrated but you're responding to me in an unnecessary manner. I'll leave this thread for now and advise you to chill out, or at least debate in a more polite manner.

I don’t understand where your getting that impression. I’m not angry or frustrated, nor is that shown in my messages. I’d never get angry or pressed over online anime debates. I’m perfectly calm.

Like, the worst thing I’ve done is respond in a snarky and sarcastic tone and called your arguments (not you) garbage. I don’t take that to be a bad thing. If that’s to ”impolite” than cope OK? I don’t see that tho.

 

[Damage3245]

I don’t understand where your getting that impression. I’m not angry or frustrated, nor is that shown in my messages. I’d never get angry or pressed over online anime debates. I’m perfectly calm.

Like, the worst thing I’ve done is respond in a snarky and sarcastic tone and called your arguments (not you) garbage. I don’t take that to be a bad thing. If that’s to ”impolite” than cope OK? I don’t see that tho.

Your posts remind me of why I generally don't get involved with Bleach CRTs unless I have to nowadays. You think that pointing out that you only called my arguments garbage instead of me is going to make me feel better and make me happy to debate you? Sure, it's not breaking any rules, but it doesn't hurt to be polite and whether you claim to be angry or frustrated or not, I only have the wording in your posts to go off of. I can't read your mind.

I don't want to get annoyed myself, so it's better if I just stop here on this thread. Just take this as a reminder to be better on these threads, and don't add on even more insults to others by adding "cope" to your posts. Seriously. It doesn't hurt to be polite.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arcker123; the snark is seriously unnecesssary and your post is purely for provocation. I've deleted it and any subsequent comments of that nature will similarly be deleted for derailing.

Keep the posting on-topic and just stop the provocation.

 

[Arcker123]

@Arcker123; the snark is seriously unnecesssary and your post is purely for provocation. I've deleted it and any subsequent comments of that nature will similarly be deleted for derailing.

Keep the posting on-topic and just stop the provocation.

Your posts remind me of why I generally don't get involved with Bleach CRTs unless I have to nowadays. You think that pointing out that you only called my arguments garbage instead of me is going to make me feel better and make me happy to debate you? Sure, it's not breaking any rules, but it doesn't hurt to be polite and whether you claim to be angry or frustrated or not, I only have the wording in your posts to go off of. I can't read your mind.

I don't want to get annoyed myself, so it's better if I just stop here on this thread. Just take this as a reminder to be better on these threads, and don't add on even more insults to others by adding "cope" to your posts. Seriously. It doesn't hurt to be polite.

Ok, cuz this was on topic smh.

I think you’re completely mischaracterizing me. Look, I’m just saying you shouldn’t be annoyed over light sarcasm online. That’s it.

 

[Arcker123]

Anyway, let’s put that rant behind us.

Do we have enough support to apply this? We got a staff member to agree and this is really simple

 

[AppleLord]

What headcanon have I posted? All I said is that things aren't as straightforward as "Character using ability = Resistance to Power Null." Just because one option is simple doesn't mean it is automatically correct. It's not wrong to look at these things with a bit of nuance.

The muken seals are designed to prevent shinigami from using their zanpakutou powers, and Aizen was able to use KS regardless of the Muken seals having power null hax. Muken seals =/= seals on Aizen's body. Aizen power null through the power null seals in the dimension. Similar to how Yhwach power null Ichibei's power null Ink with the Almighty. It isn't the first power null to power null feat in the verse.

 

[Damage3245]

The muken seals are designed to prevent shinigami from using their zanpakutou powers, and Aizen was able to use KS regardless of the Muken seals having power null hax. Muken seals =/= seals on Aizen's body. Aizen power null through the power null seals in the dimension. Similar to how Yhwach power null Ichibei's power null Ink with the Almighty. It isn't the first power null to power null feat in the verse.

From what I saw in the novel excerpts posted earlier, the Seals doesn't complete negate the Zanpakuto powers but weakened them. Why couldn't Aizen just accomplish what he did with a weakened version of Kyoka Suigetsu's powers?

 

[AppleLord]

From what I saw in the novel excerpts posted earlier, the Seals doesn't complete negate the Zanpakuto powers but weakened them. Why couldn't Aizen just accomplish what he did with a weakened version of Kyoka Suigetsu's powers?

It weakens them to the point they don't work. Guards wouldn't want prisioners to have half-fail bombs, they would take away all the bombs from the prisioners. Is fair to assume as much.

 

[Arcker123]

From what I saw in the novel excerpts posted earlier, the Seals doesn't complete negate the Zanpakuto powers but weakened them. Why couldn't Aizen just accomplish what he did with a weakened version of Kyoka Suigetsu's powers?

Stop bro. It’s already been explained that the seals weaken zanpakuto to the point you lose abilities from them, as shown with Azashiro. It weakens them to the point your major abilities (Azashiro’s control) do not work. That’s why it’s a null and Aizen not being affected is resistance.

A weakened Aizen is not going to perform better feats with KS when he should lose access to some of it’s abilities (Manipulating sense of time, manipulating Yhwach for instance). We’d have some Indication his sword was being weakened, it‘d be shown how he lost his abilities, that’s how the seals work. I don’t care about this percentage nonsense you and DT are trying to argue. It’s baseless and meaningless. Aizen still would have lost abilities if he was affected, since he is not shown to (and it’s contradicted by Aizen having better feats with KS anyway) it’s simplest to assume he wasn’t. Aizen was not affected, stop arguing this.

Hell, Prove he was affected. It’s simpler to say he wasn’t so via occams razor it goes through. Your interpretation would also require evidence, otherwise it’s a baseless head canon that should be disregarded. Ours have been evidenced and we have given arguments. You have to prove they are equal in likelihood, or else your argument is worthless. This argument your making is again completely baseless nonsense. You have no proof he was affected.

Fillibustering 101 happening in this thread rn

 

[Jibz]

Being real for a second. I f****** hate when people say this. No, there are people who haven't read it, which is why you as the knowledge user post the damn scan! This "have you read [insert thing here]?" question is stupid because you know the answer. Half of the stuff people comment on be it a staff member or a normal member is verses they don't know which is why context is needed otherwise people can add whatever they desire under the logic of "I know it and you don't".

Ngl i should do that with my Manifold crt's to deter opponents, if im ever met with questions of opposition ill just say "have you even read the series?" and never lose.

Also following.

 

[Arcker123]

Ngl i should do that with my Manifold crt's to deter opponents, if im ever met with questions of opposition ill just say "have you even read the series?" and never lose.

W. Maybe they should read the series before talking

 

[LordGriffin1000]

W. Maybe they should read the series before talking

Or y'all could read/watch stuff that isn't filled with gibberish and flowery language.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Or y'all could read/watch stuff that isn't filled with gibberish and flowery language.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Legit me when I'm called to evaluate Tier 1 or complex hax

 

[Arcker123]

Or y'all could read/watch stuff that isn't filled with gibberish and flowery language.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Legit me when I'm called to evaluate Tier 1 or complex hax

Me in general

 

[Arcker123]

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[LordGriffin1000]

Anyway, @LordGriffin1000?

I still agree with the addition and you have support from knowledgeable members. I don't think the counter arguments are sufficient and don't really work in this case (Regarding the seals).

I'd rather not just say do it, but unless better arguments against this are put forth I don't see a reason to stall this out. I know we don't do majority rules here but the evidence is there and while I wouldn't say it completely flawless (I simply lack the overall knowledge on Bleach) it's still clear. I would also like to point put that revisions can be made again so if an argument is forgotten or new arguments surface, one can easily make a new thread. So I see no reason in holding this thread still and going in circles.

 

[Arcker123]

Ok, if that’s settled, I’ll add it and you can close