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Giorno vs. Fifteen

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ArbitraryNumbers said:
But doesn't time automatically rewind every time Fifteen dies?
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Once GER's time rewind is done Fifteen is going to be trap in his own mind doing (and saying) the same he was doing, and then nothing. Fifteen would also die without even knowing he's dead. So yeah, this is kind of a stomp.

@TP Diavolo was reduced to just some guy in the cycle of deaths, so not really.
 
Actually this might funnily work out.

A teleport kill is an instant kill of sorts so the start and finish is instant. So in speed equal GER cannot rewind him back before getting killed. I don't think GER has dealt with anything infinite in speed before like the teleport kill.

Also time rewind will get fifteen out of death loop cus he was never killed. He won't be looping if he goes back in time before he even started to loop.
 
Well the teleport kill is instant for all intents and purposes (basic teleport). So it starts at 0 but still ends at 0. So it would be impossible for GER to rewind it after it has been activated but before it has ended. Fifteen definitely has a win condition here.

Im gonna vote Dragon rn.
 
Couldn't GRE deflect his blade with infinite speed/reactions as well. Fifteens blade would get obliterated by GRE barely tapping his sword. Star platinum was able to easily block a stronger sword with his hands in Anubis fairly casually. Giorno likely blocks the attack with GRE which 15 can't see or plan for.
 
Teleport kill is far from instantaneous win. He needs to think to teleport, teleport there, thinking of striking, striking. GER can block him before he even teleports. It's even ignoring that no damage-based death is really instantaneous as it always leaves some moments before the person fully dies. Especially in JoJo where tons of people get donuted by Diavolo and can still control their stand for a bit after that.
 
@Black

True, but speed equal. And even if that happens time rewind to before he died.

@Iap

He went for that against V, i'd actually say the teleport is his 1st in character move, i believe against V was the only time 15 fought in cinematics. So yeah i'd say teleport would be a first move.

@Tri

GER never does that. Diavolo was taking actions just fine, hell the bullet was shot and it was only rewinded by GER after it had pierced Giorno's skin. Idk here all this "he undoes everything passively". He never did that in his 1 fight. So yeah 15 will take actions just fine, he will only get rewinded if he slices giorno normally, since he would do that in a teleport he wouldn't be rewinded. And again GER has never rewinded things like "you thought about thinking to think of that so you get rewinded".
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
Yeah wait, doesn't Giorno just think and 15 suddenly is unable to find the will to fight.
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That's just a belief. It only exists cus it's said in the databooks and it makes sense with the death loop. It was only used "once" and that's after GER killed someone. Pretty safe to say it won't be coming up in a fight anytime soon (if at all).
 
So you mean to tell me GER will just remain there watching their user getting killed? Please... GER rewinds actions that are meant to harm Giorno. That's why he didn't rewind Diavolo's time erasure, till Diavolo decided to punch him. Killing Giorno in a teleport is something meant to kill him (reminder that Diavolo cannot even interact with Giorno in time erase, he was only using it to get closer).
 
Yes, but it's stupid to say "he will be rewinded before he thinks cus that's what GER does", time erasure was meant as a way to harm Giorno (stop and punch him), same for punching, yet it didn't not rewind the punch untill Giorno had been punched.

Same here it will not rewind the teleport until it starts harming Giorno (not when it intends to harm giorno), but GER cannot do that to an instant kill so RIP.
 
Time Erasure was meant to get close to Giorno and THEN kill him. GER reverted back to 0 exactly when Diavolo was thinking about hitting Giorno.

If the teleport is meant to KILL Giorno, it's going to be reverted. If it's teleport+slash with the sword, it will reverted before he slashes. Literally before he tries to do anything to actually kill Giorno, that anything will be reverted. You're taking him not reverting the time erasure immediately as GER not reverting something possibly fatal for Giorno whereas it only shows that moves that aren't meant to and literally CAN'T harm Giorno (Again Diavolo cannot even interact with people in erased time) aren't automatically reverted at difference of those who mean to or can.
 
1. Pretty sure it was rewinded "after" it attacked Giorno (as in after it made contact with him, rather than before he could lift a muscle).

2. Zero Reset is not passive, that's why you have GER with infinite speed
 
No. iirc he barely lifted his arm. He did see in his unavoidable Precog that he WILL punch and kill Giorno, but he never reached that reality.

No? It's infinite because of being able to move in King Crimson's world. Also, GER is not passive, it's automatic.
 
Pretty sure Giorno has passive Willpower/causality manipulation but I could be wrong.

'Teleport kill is far from instantaneous win. He needs to think to teleport, teleport there, thinking of striking, striking.'

I think this is important. Even with Infinite speed GRE can likely easily react to this. (made even easier by 15 not knowing about/not seeing GRE)

Speed equalised here also makes 15's time manipulation practically useless as Giorno can react/move at normal speed even while 15 is resurrecting/rewinding.

I think 15 goes for teleport kill. GRE blocks it/donuts 15. While Chronos is rewinding time/resurrecting him Giorno just 7 page Muda's him into a pile of flesh over and over till he runs out of Chronos.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
No. iirc he barely lifted his arm. He did see in his unavoidable Precog that he WILL punch and kill Giorno, but he never reached that reality.
No? It's infinite because of being able to move in King Crimson's world. Also, GER is not passive, it's automatic.
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Can you find the page and link me in discord or here? Im not familiar with the jojo pages so it will take me a significantly higher amount of time.

Yeah, he could move in King Crimson's world, that's why when KC tried to attack him, GER used his speed to undo his actions, as in consciously used it. And "not passive, but automatic", same thing different wording.
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
Pretty sure Giorno has passive Willpower/causality manipulation but I could be wrong.
'Teleport kill is far from instantaneous win. He needs to think to teleport, teleport there, thinking of striking, striking.'

I think this is important. Even with Infinite speed GRE can likely easily react to this. (made even easier by 15 not knowing about/not seeing GRE)

Speed equalised here also makes 15's time manipulation practically useless as Giorno can react/move at normal speed even while 15 is resurrecting/rewinding.

I think 15 goes for teleport kill. GRE blocks it/donuts 15. While Chronos is rewinding time/resurrecting him Giorno just 7 page Muda's him into a pile of flesh over and over till he runs out of Chronos.
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He does, it was just only used once and after a certain condition had been met, so it's iffy at best and not in character.

He doesn't teleport+slash+teleport. He teleports past you and you get sliced if he teleports past you. It's basically 1 teleport kill.

I didn't get this part. What does speed equalizing have to do with time rewinding if Dragon dies?

Also running out of chronos isn't done through amount of deaths, but through time passing.
 
Because if he was fighting someone without Infinite speed they couldn't react/interact with 15 while hes rewinding time.

Giorno can move on the 4-D axis via having infinite speed and can thus pummel 15 while hes rewinding time.
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
Because if he was fighting someone without Infinite speed they couldn't react/interact with 15 while hes rewinding time.
Giorno can move on the 4-D axis via having infinite speed and can thus pummel 15 while hes rewinding time.
Click to expand...
I believe you're mistaking Infinite for Immesurable.
 
This is probably the wrong place to ask but, does having infinite speed mean you can ONLY move in stoped time and not while someone is slowing down/speeding up time?
 
Infinite cannot be slowed down. Infinite is infinite, in normal time, slowed down time, faster time, stopped time etc. Infinite moves in any kind of time, as long as it's not backwards or forwards in time.
 
That makes sense. So while 15 is rewinding time/going backwards in time giorno couldn't react but if 15 slowed down time (as he usually does before teleport/slashing) Giorno could move fine.

Will 15 even know he has infinite speed? like doesn't he go for Time slowdown (to prepare for teleport slash, and Giorno can move while he does this)

Sorry if im not making sense.
 
Fifteen can't even arrive at the reality where he wins due to Causality Manipulation, even when fated to happen. How's that fair?
 
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