Tier-0 GGZ Yog-Sothoth Downgrade: Logical Problem With Tao

[ExcelsisBerny]

Before closing I want to ask if you Sothoth will scale to other godheads since you guys didn't accept her being exception to the academy

I mean, I guess? I don’t remember anyone having a direct scaling line to her, but other Outer Gods like Nyarlathotep should be comparable, since she can exist in Heaven.

Technically as far as I understood, "definition" is a divine power of gods in general.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Can someone answer this plz? Also guys, don't forget to remove tier 0 category. It's still showing in tier 0 page

Ah yeah, good catch. I forgot about some categories. I'm gonna fix it later.

 

[Weaver261]

Technically as far as I understood, "definition" is a divine power of gods in general.

Do you have a scan saying that? That'd be helpful immensely. But afaik, power of definition is from yog sothoth only and extended to mortals. Other Godheads have faith power which is different from the power of definition. But since some of you guys argued with me about how Outer Gods aren't specials compared to Normal Godheads, they should scale the same. No?

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Do you have a scan saying that? That'd be helpful immensely. But afaik, power of definition is from yog sothoth only and extended to mortals. Other Godheads have faith power which is different from the power of definition. But since some of you guys argued with me about how Outer Gods aren't specials compared to Normal Godheads, they should scale the same. No?

To be fair, the scan is pretty cryptic and leaves a lot up to interpretation.

Yog’s own profile says that simply reaching her domain is enough for you to “obtain anything you desire,” which makes total sense with Kizuna 5, where a human reaches that plane and is granted the power to create worlds. So Yog-Sothoth, Nyarlathotep and the other Outer Gods should have that power at minimum.

Beyond that, everything else is up for debate. You can be stronger than someone without the needing of being 1 tier above him.

 

[Antvasima]

Type 2: Characters who exceed conventional dimensionality by possessing an excess of size. This refers to an object (or collections of objects) is simply too large to be a dimensional space in the conventional sense. For instance, the Universe of Sets, which contains all mathematical set-structures, and therefore all spaces in which dimensions are defined, being larger than all such spaces. Characters of this nature are Low 1-A and fall under this type.

Okay. Thank you for the information.

 

[Weaver261]

To be fair, the scan is pretty cryptic and leaves a lot up to interpretation.

Yog’s own profile says that simply reaching her domain is enough for you to “obtain anything you desire,” which makes total sense with Kizuna 5, where a human reaches that plane and is granted the power to create worlds. So Yog-Sothoth, Nyarlathotep and the other Outer Gods should have that power at minimum.

Beyond that, everything else is up for debate. You can be stronger than someone without the needing of being 1 tier above him.

Then should Babylon Academy scale the same as the white void Yog Sothoth exists since Nyarlathotep can come over???

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Then should Babylon Academy scale the same as the white void Yog Sothoth exists since Nyarlathotep can come over???

I don’t know if what you’re trying to do is make the thread look stupid by asking questions that the verse’s supporters should be the ones answering.

I think it’s OBVIOUS that the White Void is a reference to Lovecraft’s Ultimate Void, with the entities residing within it being Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth, and Nyarlathotep. I mean, they even use the line about it being the world “beyond the Gate.”

It’s also pretty clear that every mythology present in Babylon has its own associated worlds inspired by that mythology.

The scaling for Babylon and everything else is something you and the others need to sort out. This thread was meant to purge Tier 0 because of the contradictions.

 

[Weaver261]

I don’t know if what you’re trying to do is make the thread look stupid by asking questions that the verse’s supporters should be the ones answering.

Well, my question since the start is related to babylon if you didn't read.

Before closing I want to ask if you Sothoth will scale to other godheads since you guys didn't accept her being exception to the academy

Since you are the one answering this, I assumed you've knowledge of the verse. This question isn't directed at you obviously. The question is just to ask people here whether the scaling should apply to other godheads or not so that I can prepare next crts.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can someone answer this plz? Also guys, don't forget to remove tier 0 category. It's still showing in tier 0 page

If beings are comparable in power/scope to Yog I don't see why they couldn’t scale. But that would be for a different CRT.

 

[Crymachina]

Hello everyone, East here back with another attempt to downgrade another character and this CRT we are going to focus on Yog-Sothoth of Gun Girl Z… okay it sounds cringe alright. This is her profile and this is when first it was brought up, this is the CRT in which it was accepted.

The topic of today is… indeed, controversial, as we are going straight for a supposedly Tier-0 character downgrade.

So if you are knowledgeable about Tier-0 and have read the profile, you probably have understood the problem there, and maybe the CRT in which it was accepted didn't answer the questions. And that's why we are coming with this downgrade within this CRT.

It would be a short and straightforward CRT since the problems are clear and blatant.

Without much delay, let us start.
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The Eternal Nameless Tao… merely a bubble of Yog-Sothoth?

So if you had read the profile itself, you see this as the justification for Tier-0 in the Attack Potency section.

Why it is the problem?

Just read this,

RAW:


TL:


Co-dependent property with the bubbles? At first one thought this was referring to a lesser property and going by the way of "negation of divine properties" explanation (Apophatic theology). But is this justification truly enough?

Through the CRT, it accepted “because Nameless Tao”, yet as we see here the “Eternal Nameless Tao/Dao” is not so eternal after all and is merely another of Yog-Sothoth's bubbles, despite it also being the essence of existence. It shows that trying to justify the state of Tier-0 for Yog-Sothoth via the Tao/Dao philosophy is nothing but Nominal and Association Fallacy as the “Tao” in the verse doesn't share the same properties as the one from Philosophy.

Tao is the one in Taoism that is the ineffable, indivisible and eternal Tao that grounds everything. GGZ Yog being beyond it, pretty much defeats Tao's Primacy.



Which Yog-Sothoth's bubble defeats this metaphysical ground (which also was not properly established within the verse from start). Yog-Sothoth, with its description, negates the divine properties of Tao itself in a flawed way.


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Beyond Definition & Description: Is it enough?


To continue, the very next link is this, it is when the narrator speaks directly to us, the reader, and breaks the fourth wall actually, within the story of Praise My Lord.


When you read it, you see the line about Yog-Sothoth being beyond definition and description which confirms its ineffable essence, yet it also further confirms that the whole bubble description and the concept of Nameless Tao within was what it is, a description and a metaphor. So all that remains here is the fact that Yog-Sothoth is “beyond definition and description”, but is it enough for Tier-0? I do not think so, unless we give any character with any form of Apophatic Theology or Ineffable essence.



That can be said the only thing GGZ Yog-Sothoth has, and Transduality too due to transcending Yin and Yang and we know it exists in Babylon too due to Mother's description.
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So you might wonder why we are not reaching out to anything new within CRT, and I agree with you. Because based on the profile and CRT, that's it. That was literally the entire Tier-0 justification for GGZ Yog-Sothoth, Ineffable essence, and of course “Tao” while as we see is merely a bubble of Yog-Sothoth and metamorphosis.

Generally, these are the whole argument.

Edit: as I expected, the CRT is in chaos, great, so this summarization is for counterarguments and answers to them keeping the flow of the debate.

So I propose this:

1-A: True Form (via TD3 and Primacy).
L1-A: Avatar (scaling to cosmology).

After verse downgrade thread: L1-C, possibly L1-A (by virtue of being 1D+ to everything before it as the one who define boundaries by being beyond them, possibly her transcend over "all things"/"definition and description" be beyond concept of space-time in its entirety)

Unless more context is presented, I see the arguments for Tier-0 GGZ Yog-Sothoth insufficient, and nothing but a very charitable scale to the highest possible interpretation based on a false equivalence and misconception about Tao inverse.
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Mod Votes:

Agrees: @Antvasima , @DarkDragonMedeus, @Vietthai96, @Qawsedf234

Disagrees:

 

[Mbpoops]

what if we made low 1-c-high 1-B tier 2 and kept low 1-a - h1-A tier 1

 

[Robo432343]

Why the hell is Yog Low 1-A if the cosmology of the verse is Low 1-C? Hell it barely touches Low 1-C

 

[Mbpoops]

Why the hell is Yog Low 1-A if the cosmology of the verse is Low 1-C? Hell it barely touches Low 1-C

quality over quantity or sum shi

 

[Mbpoops]

Why the hell is Yog Low 1-A if the cosmology of the verse is Low 1-C? Hell it barely touches Low 1-C

i am curious though this probably isnt the place for this how does she not touch low 1-C (its hard to tell if ur trolling sometimes)

 

[Robo432343]

This thread should be closed, it has been accepted.

 

[Vietthai96]

Did the thread applied?

 

[Robo432343]

Did the thread applied?

Yes

 

[Vietthai96]

Yes

Oke, closing