Getting speed from KE

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

According to our wiki's guidelines, getting speed from KE is not accepted. However, what if a certain amount of KE is generated by a person running?

Case 1: For example, this guy called Sam charges at a wall and breaks it. The energy is, let's say, 1 ton of TNT. Can we get speed from KE? If no, why?

Another case: For some reason we know that Sam is generating a KE of 1 ton of TNT while running. Can we get speed from KE? If no, why?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

We can't get speed from KE. I honestly have no better answer than "because fiction". Even a tier 9 feat like Deku breaking Shoto's ice gets FTL, or so I've heard.

 

[Ugarik]

I guess getting speed from KE is not allowed because fiction can be inconsistent and wall can be destroyed by relatively light and slow things.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

@The real cal howard Do you mean Deku broke ice at FTL speed, or getting speed from KE results in FTL? The latter doesn't seem to make sense.

I don't think I've ever seen a slow, light thing destroy a wall.

What do you think about the second case though

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The latter

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I would like to see the calc then. I don't know what verse is that, but even if I assume 1.046e9 Joules (borderline 8-C), the character would have to be 0.000023 grams.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You don't know My Hero Academia?

 

[Andytrenom]

@Calward Are you talking about Nux? He calculated the speed of something as small as a finger moving fast enough to generate hurricane force winds, so the feat is probably above tier 9.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

You don't know My Hero Academia?

Well I've heard of it but never watched it. That's why I thought the name sound familiar though...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Calward Are you talking about Nux? He calculated the speed of something as small as a finger moving fast enough to generate hurricane force winds, so the feat is probably above tier 9.

Yeah, I'm talking about my boi Nux.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, you can't get speed from kinetic energy just like that; it's Calc Stacking. Like but that log, a whole bunch of Low 7-B characters would have Relativistic+ despite not having any feats that exceed Subsonic existing in said verse. Moving fast enough to generate fire is fair game to scale to speed, or having the ability to jump really high in a single leap would inherently be a good speed feat. But we don't take the energy of calculated ramming strength and divide by character's mass to get speed.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I still don't see why NOT though.

A whole bunch of Low 7-B characters would have Relativistic+ via what? I doubt those Low 7-B feats are ramming or KE of running.

And no one replied to case 2 yet.

 

[Andytrenom]

It's not calc stacking actually, speed and KE are just rarely portrayed as having the same relation in fiction as they have in real life

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Also, broadly speaking, in most feats above Tier 9, those aren't ramming nor running feats. Most of them are either non-physical feats or super-powerful punches.

For punches I agree we cannot get combat speed from KE as it tends to be inconsistent in fiction. But I'm talking about running speed here.

 

[Andytrenom]

I think that would be a double standard more than a reasonable exception to a rule, so no.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Ramming and striking strength kind of apply the same way here. But yeah, KE, speed, and mass don't really have correlation in fiction. Though onscreen demonstrated speeds could still be used to get KE, just the same thing can be used to backwards scale to speed.

 

[Antvasima]

It's not calc stacking actually, speed and KE are just rarely portrayed as having the same relation in fiction as they have in real life

This is correct, yes. Comparatively slow strikes are recurrently portrayed as planet-shattering, and near lightspeed ones as comparatively weak. We have to treat speed and AP separately for the sake of the overall reliability of the wiki.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

And it's even further elaborated when FTL ramming/striking speeds are taken into account. Theoretically, objects that exceed 96% percent the speed of light I think it was now, aren't even supposed to be remotely tangible.

Anyway, was the question answered?

 

[Antoniofer]

Force is not necessary related to speed, in real life people "condensate" its muscle increasing its mass in order to gain force, and despite a train having several dozens of times more KE than a tank, its no more than 10 times stronger than it (1500 HP vs no more than 12000 HP).

And yes, using KE to find speed will cause a lot of trouble in the wiki, and I already consider troublesome to use planet explosions as KE related.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

The average man is 195.7 pounds with a quick google search.

A hand is 0.58% of the body, so a hand for this average man would be 1.13506 pounds.

Let's say this person is Baseline Town level.

The speed needed to generate that force would be 23,128,728 mph, 3% the speed of light.

So now, a character who was probably subsonic at best through consistent feats and scaling is now sub-relativistic.

This is the problem with using kinetic energy to find speed.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I disagree with this. Otherwise you'd have characters like Master Chief at Massively Hypersonic.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I am talking only about running/ramming feats.

But I do get that my proposal will cause double standards.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

The average man is 195.7 pounds with a quick google search.

A hand is 0.58% of the body, so a hand for this average man would be 1.13506 pounds.

Let's say this person is Baseline Town level.

The speed needed to generate that force would be 23,128,728 mph, 3% the speed of light.

So now, a character who was probably subsonic at best through consistent feats and scaling is now sub-relativistic.

This is the problem with using kinetic energy to find speed.

I said running/ramming feats, but Andytrenom does have a point about it being double standards.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I am talking only about running/ramming feats.
But I do get that my proposal will cause double standards.

Problem with that is that even tier 9/8 characters like Halo Spartans would have a running speed of 1178 m/s. So like 90% of speed feats derived from this method would be hard outliers.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Um no. Unless those Spartan feats are ramming feats.

I don't think this will result in a lot of outliers, at all. The only reasonable point I see is that it probably would be double standards.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Um no. Unless those Spartan feats are ramming feats.
I don't think this will result in a lot of outliers, at all. The only reasonable point I see is that it probably would be double standards.

Actually I derived that number from a ramming feat. Try again.

 

[Schnee_One]

<Actually debating VS in Halo Knowledge

 

[Kaltias]

^ This.

Every character who performs tier 7 feats via punches or kicks would be sub-relativistic to relativistic+ if we used that method

 

[TataHakai]

Yeah i disagree with this for the same reason as why Calc stacking isn't allowed really, it's going to give massively inflated results that aren't consistent with the actual speed feats of the verse.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we close this thread?

 

[VersusJunkie54]

So should we close this thread?

Yes

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.