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Getbackers: Terrible Profiles, NLFs and Unjustified Profiles.

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> Putting words in other people's mouths - Revengeance.

I am not putting words on anyone's mouths. Browse the thread. I was just speaking my mind on that type of argument.

People can do better than just use their personal favorite characters or verses as arguments. Personal denial isn't even an argument to begin with.
 
FateAlbane said:
Putting words in other people's mouths - Revengeance.

Well, if you suddenly up and told me Saitama can One Punch people well past his furthest shown limits, why yes, that would be my reaction. Assuming the guy can't imagine that he will possibly lose to someone who dwarfs his powers to an unsurmountable ammount and that this would also prevent that ridiculously superior force from oneshotting him is the apex of NLF.

Otherwise why rate characters in the first place?
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Keepley's words are correct. Saitama is AP, these guys use hax. By wiki rules we have already established that hax will work on anyone with a higher AP as long as it's not higher dimensionality and resistances are not included. Same as how Nihilus can mind hax ppl above his AP, similarly Ban's law hax works on higher ends of 2-A, as long as it's not resistance of a higher level or higher dimensional existence.
 
@Wokistan I have nothing against it if it does. I'm just pointing out the bad implications of the former reply.

@Kep "It just reads as "ARE YOU SAYING MY CHARACTER WILL LOSE????!" to me."

/\ Yup, this sentence is totally not putting words in people's mouths.
 
FateAlbane said:
Or that Yukari can lolBoundary anyone 3-D/4-D. It's more or less the same here.
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Well, yeah. 3Ds who don't resist reality warping or whatever we classify her stuff as would be screwed over by it. That's how hax works.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
I am not still early in the Manga.
They so far haven't shown the heavy Hax that's written on their pages. I'm still going so things can change but so far they ain't got much.

I suggest we lock all Getbackers profiles and hold off on matches.
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I agree with this sentiment.
 
> /\ Yup, this sentence is totally not putting words in people's mouths.

That's what it feels like to me. If you have a personal problem with it then just ignore it and move on instead of being sarcastic and expecting a response with the same tone.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Keepley's words are correct. Saitama is AP, these guys use hax. By wiki rules we have already established that hax will work on anyone with a higher AP as long as it's not higher dimensionality and resistances are not included. Same as how Nihilus can mind hax ppl above his AP, similarly Ban's law hax works on higher ends of 2-A, as long as it's not resistance of a higher level or higher dimensional existence.
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Again, his hax is based on him being unable to imagine something.

There are 0 reasons for me to believe he would be unable to imagine a being who dwarfs him by a literal infinity and is far superior to anything he fought in his verse as capable of killing him, unless he did fight a 2-A at those levels and thought so.

That's why it's NLF.
 
Kepekley23 said:
> /\ Yup, this sentence is totally not putting words in people's mouths.That's what it feels like to me. If you have a personal problem with it then just ignore it and move on instead of being sarcastic and expecting a response.
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As long as you construct proper arguments instead of implying NLF isn't NLF until proved otherwise, fine by me.
 
FateAlbane said:
Again, his hax is based on him being unable to imagine something.

There are 0 reasons for me to believe he would be unable to imagine a being who dwarfs him by a literal infinity and is far superior to anything he fought in his verse as incapable of killing him, unless he did fight a 2-A at those levels and thought so.

That's why it's NLF.
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It's not about "can or can't" it's more about "will or won't". He doesn't have to truthfully believe something for it to happen. Akabane already knew the ppl from the beltline were immortal yet he said "my logic is higher than yours so you die". This imagination is more of "does he choose to believe something or not", or they would be useless if they had already gained info on something, which as feats prove, it doesn't.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Constructing proper arguments as in not acting like random SMT characters are relevant to the discussion? I can agree to that.
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I thought everyone knew that examples exist for a reason. I already explained the why.

"There are 0 reasons for me to believe he would be unable to imagine a being who dwarfs him by a literal infinity and is far superior to anything he fought in his verse as capable of killing him, unless he did fight a 2-A at those levels and thought so."
 
I don't think anyone is implying his law would extend to 5Ds. It'd go like this:

He doesn't imagine himself losing, causing his victory to become a law of the universe.

As that law has not shown feats of stopping 5Ds, it doesn't stop the 5Ds. However it has shown 2-A feats, so it can alter the actions and behaviors of 4Ds freely.

A better argument against this would be to target the feat itself.
 
> "There are 0 reasons for me to believe he would be unable to imagine a being who dwarfs him by a literal infinity and is far superior to anything he fought in his verse as incapable of killing him, unless he did fight a 2-A at those levels and thought so."

Power isn't relevant in the slightest. A 2-A and a 2-B are based off of the exact same universal structure and aren't inherently superior in anything but their power-related attributes. Higher-dimensional characters are at least superior in such a way that their structure is borderline incomprehensible to lower dimensionals.
 
@Kep While I agree in the complexity matter, I disagree on the "power is irrelevant" part. I'm not sure if I worded the point I'm making properly, but what I'm saying is not that "Hax in general stops working if there's a gap in power."

What I'm saying is that due to the very mechanics of his hax, it should only work as far up as he has demonstrated in-verse because he would very well be capable of imagining that someone far stronger than the strongest of the opponents his verse had to offer would be capable of ending him.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
How about we speed things up? Can someone post the 2-A Law feat on this thread? I'm not about to go through 100+ posts to find one feat.
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Not as much of a feat as it's mechanics. His logic as shown when he deconstructed Help, uses the archiver as a medium. Reality is all part of the archiver, manipulating this information (which even the scientists from the real world couldn't manipulate anymore), or manipulating The Archiver's code gives them the results they like. The rest is being executed by The Archiver who is a 2-A being whose code is literally reality's code.

Furthermore (idk how Ban aquired this ability) Akabane is a scientist from Babylon City (the real world) and the only way the members from Babylon City can affect the archiver is through the information/data. Everything Akabane does is a result of his being a transcendential and as such everything he does is by working through The Archiver's code. (Akabane is a special type of transcendential btw, as other scientists of the real world seem to not be able to do this, but akabane and some others like Professor Makube seem to be an exception to this rule and they differ from every other transcendential like Kagami).
 
It's more reasonable to assume that it works up to the point he can legitimately comprehend.

For example, if someone shows the ability to casually manipulate eight-dimensional space with their mind and then they develop a mindhax ability, it's not like the mindhax will be stopped in its tracks by a 4-D or a 5-D. Said character can comprehend their structure just fine.

However, 3-D characters with sufficient resistance should still be able to withstand it because it's still 3-D mindhax; it can merely accomodate to a 8-D mind if needed.
 
DMB 1 said:
By the way:
Since this seems to be a verse that relies A LOT on statements, wouldn't 'having the original Japanese 'version of the scans convinient?
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Good luck. I tried, and couldn't find them. If you can actually find them, then yes that would help a lot.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Here is more info on how they hax logic:
Scan in the profiles. Akabane cuts some immortal being with a sword and then says "the low cannot stand agains the high, whether you're immortal depends on the opponent". Which means he literally just made an immortal dude, mortal, because he wanted it to. And implied it was done through logic manip.
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"The 'Low' cannot stand with the 'high'."

"That too, is the Logic of the Infinite Fortress."

What the **** does any of this mean? ^

To me, this sounds like he saying some dribble on how he is better than his opponent.

A similar scenario I can think of is in Naruto.

Neji, a character in Naruto, makes a long grandiose speech about how everyone has a place in the world and how everyone is shackled by fate. How only those who were chosen by destiny at birth will succeed and that working hard and fighting against one's destiny is meaningless.

Does that mean that Neji has Law/Fate Manipulation? No, it's just an example of his philosophy and mentality. And unless proven elsewhere, I see no reason for why this should be any different.
 
Note: I haven't said that the hax on their profiles don't exist. I said so far they have shown this high grade stuff like Law Manipulation, Reality Warping and such.

Only recently in Act 8 the characters using Divine Design Cards. Have been able to walk through wall, steal soul, bfr people, curse others, ripping hearts out and keeping the victom alive, summon monsters and manipulate fate to a small degree.

But they haven't even shown high levels of Reality Warping. They even admit they can't create their own worlds yet, they just make Territories that don't scale to their AP.

Maria even states that the Divine Design at full power can alter time and history but that's over time. The characters can't do this normally. There are just Higher Dimension statements from people who aren't anywhere near that level and they don't even treat it like we do.

As far as I remember the hax like Power Nullification, Fate Manipulation and such don't appear until around the end of the manga and some of it isn't legit. I'm re reading the manga so I'm going to get their eventually.

I've said everything I wanted to say. I'll add the hax when/if it shows up in the manga.
 
FateAlbane said:
@Kep Mmmm... I'm not entirely sure. I'm getting this impression I mentioned above because even in this scan that Fire posted he can imagine himself being defeated (though not yet killed) by a strong opponent (Midou Ban in this case), apparently. Do correct me if I'm wrong since I'm not fully aware of the context.
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Not he "can imagine", he "imagined". As in he genuinely liked the idea of losing against Ban Midou, because he enjoyed the fight. So started to consciously believe the idea of losing, though not because he couldn't fathom it before, but because he didn't want to do it before.

As i explained, it's a state of "does he want to believe it or not", it doesn't have to be his sincere belief, as he has literally denied truths of reality head on via "i say so" before.
 
Warren Valion said:
"The 'Low' cannot stand with the 'high'."

"That too, is the Logic of the Infinite Fortress."

What the **** does any of this mean? ^

To me, this sounds like he saying some dribble on how he is better than his opponent.
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Nope, logic is literally the word they use for their hax.

Hojutsu or Logic Users, as in they are able to manipulate the logic of reality (info manip). Higher logic, lower logic is due to the level of this. Any higher logic will stomp a lower logic user.

And no it's not just "better than his opponent" as his opponet is literally immortal and he cut him with a sword and negated that completely. It would be a different case if his opponent was mortal.
 
The "Logic of the Infinite Fortress" is another way of how the infinite fortress works.

So what is the infinite fortress?
 
Warren Valion said:
The "Logic of the Infinite Fortress" is another way of how the infinite fortress works.
So what is the infinite fortress?
Click to expand...
You are missing a lot of context, as Logic Manip is an "actual power", not just random statements here and there. Just read the Voodoo Child arc (14 chapters) no need for further context than that.

The home of The Archiver.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Yeah I don't see any 2-A here, just 2-B at best. The "endless" statement here isn't meant to be a literal claim explaining the cosmology.
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That's stuff explained through a CRT. Whether it goes back to 2-B or it stays at 2-A, is another deal. This is not the thread for it. And the original profile was 2-B then went to 2-A through a CRT. Again not the thread for it. Argue in Archiver's tier for it. This is for NLF's and bad profiles not for uprgades and downgrades.
 
@Matt

I stated so in anothet thread.

In addition a scan which explains how choices leads to birth of new universes. And Fire stated that there's endless ones which The Archiver embodies all... which is not 2-A because that means there exists a number of universes that are ever increasing due to number of choices.

It's 1 universe than 2 universes than 4 universes than 8 universes and so on... not 2-A at all
 
But AP values are part of an issue for NLFs and bad profiles...
 
None of the profiles are 2-A anyway, aside from the Archiver (who'd get downgraded to 2-B)
 
Lmao. Isn't the fact that context is missing the reason for this thread's existence?

And just because "Logic" is a power, doesn't mean that it doesn't have a connotation that equates to logic being "how things work"

The Archiver is the multiverse, right?

So going from that information and using basic logical thinking, what is being said when the characters say the "Logic of the Infinite Fortress" is said character basically saying the logic of the multiverse.

Or in other words, "this how the world works."
 
I just finished reading Getbackers and I can vouch that most of the abilities the characters have is okay.

However, a lot of things are wrong for the archiver profile.

His 2-A justification despite not having hinted to create infinite universes or even embodying them.

His concept manipulation being type 2 despite no such proof of it and the most it could be is type 3 for the creation of superpowers and stuff. Heck, as far as I can recall, the term "concept" was never mentioned in Getbackers so idk how that correlates here with concept manipulation.

His type 5 acausality despite how Makubex was able to see and interact with it and even read the data from it

His type 1 abstract existence despite him being an embodiment of all the countless possiblities. Iirc, the archiver is just a machine created to contain all of the possibilities of the real world and was used to create the parallel world of Getbackers.

His large size being type 9 despite only being shown as a few meters big in diameter

For the others, why are they even at low 2-C??? They never affected any universe. And if the justification comes from them messing around with the I.F., it's just a castle sized fortress with it's own reality. Nothing about it states it being universe sized and lol, how come they all are universal+ when they were fighting specifically to change the flow of fate of the very universe they were i.
 
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