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Genshin Impact General Discussion!

It's rather obvious that characters don't have access to all weapons of the type they can use. Some weapons are unique. There's a sword that only the Traveler can canonically wield, yet in gameplay, any sword wielder can also use it. So their weapons for their profiles should be restricted to only weapons they've used in cutscenes or official art.
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Noelle’s case is odd on first inspection but I’d still say if that’s her weapon shown that’s what it is so we’d just assume that favonius greatsword is just stronger as ludicrous as That at may sound
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Maybe call it a favonius greatsword variant and noting that it's just like a normal until being infused with noelle geo elemental energies it become massively stronger, tougher and possibility weight more than it was unlike the normal one?
 
Anyway so the consensus seem to be: weapon that are shown with the characters offical matterial ( plash art, cutscene) will be listed as Standard equipment (heh, rusty sword Traveller), the weapon ability would be taken into account if it sound legit, if the character have a lore weapon that is far stronger yet look exactly like the one they're shown with, then call it a variant and noting how it work differently from the normal one. Am i wrong?

Edit: if the weapon were not shown with the character but is heavily implied to be their it should also be listed in said character profile?
 
Jackpact said:
Anyway so the consensus seem to be: weapon that are shown with the characters offical matterial ( plash art, cutscene) will be listed as Standard equipment (heh, rusty sword Traveller), the weapon ability would be taken into account if it sound legit, if the character have a lore weapon that is far stronger yet look exactly like the one they're shown with, then call it a variant and noting how it work differently from the normal one. Am i wrong?

Edit: if the weapon were not shown with the character but is heavily implied to be their it should also be listed in said character profile?
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If it’s a heavily implied weapon I wouldn’t fight the use of it in the optional equipment tab noting it’s something they possibly have used once before
 
For context i'm talking about the summit shaper series and the upcoming free catalyst. The previous is all created and used by Zhongli with one exception that he also have in his possession while the later literally have Klee trifolium and color scheme decorated on it.
 
Jackpact said:
For context i'm talking about the summit shaper series and the upcoming free catalyst. The previous is all created and used by Zhongli with one exception that he also have in his possession while the later literally have Klee trifolium and color scheme decorated on it.
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Oh the summit shaper series
Those are fine you can have them as standard equipment or optional equipment for past Rex Lapis and not current Zhongli

The new Catalyst I’m already guessing will get lore confirming it’s Klee’s anyway so that can go on her when it releases as standard equipment

Damn having to discuss the game mechanics behind this verse and which ones are reasonable to have in and which ones are not is really quite a bit to think about
 
I see no reason for only archon morax to have it and current Zhongli to not have it considering that it's still with him and was never stated to be thrown away, if anything him only able to using the spear is the real game mechanic that we need to ignore.

I guess so as the substat and effect are both tailor made for Klee so there's that.7u

Yeah, with verse that have game mechanic integrated into the lore like genshin we need to weed out all the one that look stupid (stat and substat) and keep what seem to be reasonable (constellations, weapons, skill) or we are just gonna ignoring a chunk of the lore or thing that are supported by the lore.
 
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I'm going to open the discussion for skill multiplier again later and add in allogenes barrier multiplier as the Klee vs Bakugo match show we are going to need to have those on the profile and Solacis seem to disagree with using skill multiplier despite it being a stated number that won't change overtime unlike moba game, the only way i see it changing is if they turn genshin combat system into DMC style flexing combat which at that point we are talking about complete overhaul not just some small change
 
Jackpact said:
I see no reason for only archon morax to have it and current Zhongli to not have it considering that it's still with him and was never stated to be thrown away, if anything him only using the spear is the real game mechanic that we need to ignore.

I guess so as the substat and effect are both tailor made for Klee so there's that.7u

Yeah, with verse that have game mechanic integrated into the lore like genshin we need to weed out all the one that look stupid (stat and substat) and keep what seem to be reasonable (constellations, weapons, skill) or we are just gonna ignoring a chunk of the lore or thing that are supported by the lore.
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That’s also a fair opinion however I’ll wait and see if anyone else also has an opinion on that

But yeah Genshin heavily intergrates gameplay with lore honestly makes me thankful Honkai doesn’t otherwise the scaling for that series would become a total mess
 
Jackpact said:
I'm going to open the discussion for skill multiplier again later and add in allogenes barrier multiplier as the Klee vs Bakugo match show we are going to need to have those on the profile and Solacis seem to disagree with using skill multiplier despite it being a stated number that won't change overtime unlike moba game, the only way i see it changing is if they turn genshin combat system into DMC style flexing combat which at that point we are talking about complete overhaul not just some small change
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Personally here is how I feel
Barriers need to be added as a higher rating for durability on every page

Special barriers like Zhongli and Noelle get a far higher as their elements are specifically for blocking attacks the best

Skill multipliers need discussion as they can alter the tiers of several characters very heavily imo
So if anyone makes a crt on that try to compile the Multipliers of every character in the game to see just how drastic these multipliers are for some characters compared to others and if it’s consistent
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
That’s also a fair opinion however I’ll wait and see if anyone else also has an opinion on that

But yeah Genshin heavily intergrates gameplay with lore honestly makes me thankful Honkai doesn’t otherwise the scaling for that series would become a total mess
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Yeah adding a series of weapon and claiming someone can use weapon other than the one shown (which is none as he only yeet rock and create a barrier in the newest story quest) is some big claim.

Just wait until everyone in Genshin have that sweet 1-A or higher resistance scaling then we'll see who's going to make a mess out of who
 
Weapon scaling can get out of hand just like, or even more then talent scaling, one example i can give is Vortex Vanquisher on Rex Lapis Zhongli, with it nearly doubling his atk%, (which would probably be a multiplier on his base AP as if it's base atk for an example) plus the added durability from shield strength and base atk, the added atk% would already out AP most of high 7-A, and depending on how we do base attack he can get to low 6-C, but it depends on how the weapons are scaled with AP.
 
Jackpact said:
Yeah adding a series of weapon and claiming someone can use weapon other than the one shown (which is none as he only yeet rock and create a barrier in the newest story quest) is some big claim.

Just wait until everyone in Genshin have that sweet 1-A or higher resistance scaling then we'll see who's going to make a mess out of who
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You have too much hope at best the cap would be high 1-C if Genshin intertwined with Honkai and even then they’d probably be weaker than the WOTH
 
Ronin119 said:
Weapon scaling can get out of hand just like, or even more then talent scaling, one example i can give is Vortex Vanquisher on Rex Lapis Zhongli, with it nearly doubling his atk%, (which would probably be a multiplier on his base AP as if it's base atk for an example) plus the added durability from shield strength and base atk, the added atk% would already out AP most of high 7-A, and depending on how we do base attack he can get to low 6-C, but it depends on how the weapons are scaled with AP.
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We’ve kinda agreed to leave the strength of the weapons to be only lore based
But power and abilities additions due to those weapons or specific conditions for amps in rare scenarios are fine

If Hu Tao gets feats for example saying she needs to be weakened physically to get a AP amp in a vs thread is fair but we ain’t gonna use staff of homa percentages
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Personally here is how I feel
Barriers need to be added as a higher rating for durability on every page

Special barriers like Zhongli and Noelle get a far higher as their elements are specifically for blocking attacks the best

Skill multipliers need discussion as they can alter the tiers of several characters very heavily imo
So if anyone makes a crt on that try to compile the Multipliers of every character in the game to see just how drastic these multipliers are for some characters compared to others and if it’s consistent
Click to expand...
Nornal barrier is obvious, special barrier is going to really need to have a far higher note as they are made with skill that are specifically use to make barrier like noelle, zhongli and xinyan.

Personally i don't mind them especially since skill book and the crown of sage hood lore literally imply the existence of it, the skill scaling tho, i think it's consistent?

The only thing that are controversial is amber who have the highest base multiplier or diona who could have higher multiplier than some, but then again those skill require like 60 or 80 energy so it can be reason with as they can't spam it unlike Zhongli who have the second highest and need only 40 which mean he can spam it and one is hilichurls tier while the other is using her very strongest attack (which can't be spam) and is in the abyss mage tier, eula tho...
 
Ronin119 said:
Weapon scaling can get out of hand just like, or even more then talent scaling, one example i can give is Vortex Vanquisher on Rex Lapis Zhongli, with it nearly doubling his atk%, (which would probably be a multiplier on his base AP as if it's base atk for an example) plus the added durability from shield strength and base atk, the added atk% would already out AP most of high 7-A, and depending on how we do base attack he can get to low 6-C, but it depends on how the weapons are scaled with AP.
Click to expand...
We literally deny special effect and stat scaling we would only use it if it make sense like rainslasher but those case are rare, very rare.

Edit: and we also scrap the all other weapon in optional equipment part so yeah no need to worry about it.
 
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Jackpact said:
Nornal barrier is obvious, special barrier is going to really need to have a far higher note as they are made with skill that are specifically use to make barrier like noelle, zhongli and xinyan.

Personally i don't mind them especially since skill book and the crown of sage hood lore literally imply the existence of it, the skill scaling tho, i think it's consistent?

The only thing that are controversial is amber who have the highest base multiplier or diona who could have higher multiplier than some, but then again those skill require like 60 or 80 energy so it can be reason with as they can't spam it unlike Zhongli who have the second highest and need only 40 which mean he can spam it and one is hilichurls tier while the other is using her very strongest attack (which can't be spam) and is in the abyss mage tier, eula tho...
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Eula tho sounds like she might screw with this regardless lol
Energy needed while a game mechanic is actually a good indicator for how spammable an ability is tho I mean if these attacks which can one shot those rivaling them aren’t spammable at all it wouldn’t be too crazy to scale, unless we see a major contradiction to this via something like a cutscene
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Eula tho sounds like she might screw with this regardless lol
Energy needed while a game mechanic is actually a good indicator for how spammable an ability is tho I mean if these attacks which can one shot those rivaling them aren’t spammable at all it wouldn’t be too crazy to scale, unless we see a major contradiction to this via something like a cutscene
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She really be making us pay tho.

It could like Zhongli is an adepti, chongyun is literally sword fall down that are easily dodged, Kequing barely deal any damage except for her start and end attack which can be salvage as her kit is made to spam it so under normal conditions she can't, etc,etc... Amber is literally a storm of arrow imbued with pyro focus attacking on one small point so i think we could argue it.
 
Alright if we are using lore and logical passives then that's fair, although finding the roght weapon for the right character is going to be annoying.

Talents scaling is fair imo because there is confirmation it exists in the lore (Crowns) but some characters can definitely cheese the system. (Eula, Mona, Bennentt, etc)

And i swear to god if anyone brings up artifact scaling we are about to get 6-A genshin.
 
Ronin119 said:
Alright if we are using lore and logical passives then that's fair, although finding the roght weapon for the right character is going to be annoying.

Talents scaling is fair imo because there is confirmation it exists in the lore (Crowns) but some characters can definitely cheese the system. (Eula, Mona, Bennentt, etc)

And i swear to god if anyone brings up artifact scaling we are about to get 6-A genshin.
Click to expand...
Just look at the splash art or cutscene they're going to be pretty easy to find.

Some are weird but theirs always a catch like energies required so we can use that as an excuse.

Artifact is canon though, finding the right one however...
 
Ronin119 said:
Alright if we are using lore and logical passives then that's fair, although finding the roght weapon for the right character is going to be annoying.

Talents scaling is fair imo because there is confirmation it exists in the lore (Crowns) but some characters can definitely cheese the system. (Eula, Mona, Bennentt, etc)

And i swear to god if anyone brings up artifact scaling we are about to get 6-A genshin.
Click to expand...
6-A Genshin which artifact has such a statement the hell is this some teyvat busting statement
 
Ronin119 said:
It should have been Diona who got her brains fried insted of Klee fml
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It would be worse who's gonna help wake Draff up from his mess of a lifestyle who's gonna help Diluc shut down the wine industries and most importantly of all who's gonna fill the void in our heart that is loli catgirl ? But Klee is cuter so i will say that Diona should have been there instead of her
 
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Ronin119 said:
Guess I'll do the other popular genshin characters in match ups (Venti, Xiao, Razor, Ganyu and Diluc)
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I swear if another barrier gg arguement pulls up in later threads
Lowkey I’ve been thinking of Zhongli vs Yuta(Jujutsu kaisen) myself

Mainly because of thematic parallel they have albeit in drastically different context
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Lowkey I’ve been thinking of Zhongli vs Yuta(Jujutsu kaisen) myself

Mainly because of thematic parallel they have albeit in drastically different context
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Just went to look at his page and i can already tell him and zhongli has the same backstory, atleast with his wife, thats a cool match up.

i was just about to post Garaa vs Zhongli and prepping myself for my first naruto debate which i feel like will go to shit fast.

Also i heard Ozpin from RWBY is a good Match for current Zhongli.
 
Me: hate typing especially when my pinky left finger have arthritis but still tank through it anyway.

My dad: close the browser without even saving despite me telling to not close it

Me: all those effort wasted...fml 🙃
 
2/3 done with the blog and from what i see there aren't anything controversial about the multiplier yet, those that seem iffy can be explained via solacis tier scaling, the few that seem really iffy and the reasons that i even write this in the first place: the shield multiplier of the character, all of them despite having ability that are used to create barrier have pretty shit multiplier and i categorize noelle def scaling to dura which might seem iffy.

How do you guys think we should treat def should we treat it as dura since noelle is stated to possibly be the physically strongest character in monstadt, or we treat it as something else.

For the shield multiplier, i have a proposal: we should treat the maxhp, def scaling in those ability as also including the normal barrier of the character.

It might sound weird but remember, they made this mechanic way before they made the comic, it would make the Amber feat of tanking the character null then? No since we know that the game integrate both the gameplay and lore from all sources, it would mean that by occam razor all of them do have the natural ability to create barrier and it isn't implemented in the game cause it's too late and it would break the game, what isn't natural however is the way that the character with the abitlity to create shield create it. The creation of a shield is just that creation of a shield as showed by lawarlchurl and Amber it doesn't create anything else and only require your own elemental energy to create, Abyss mage is too weak to create a shield and also don't have a vision so they have to do a small ritual to extract the elemental energy they create and focus them into their shield.

Now the character that do have the ability on the other hand: diona shield creation cause 2 cat paw to be launch at the enemy, noelle shield creation cause a small shockwave of geo energy, beidou is a special case as her force field were made to not withstand but to increase her power, xinyan swipe around her and depend on the amount of enemy struck her shield greatly increase in potency, zhongli literally absorb energy around him to create a far stronger shield. All of them either create something as a side effect of creating their shield, use their shield in pretty weird way, have a specific condition to strengthen the shield even further or just straight up absorb the energy around them to create it, i'm pretty sure normal shield creation is not that complicated of a matter as a newly awakened Amber was able to do it with ease so i doubt that those character above need to do something so excessive to create it. Now of course there is one glaring issue, diona and xinyan, they aren't combatant so how were they able to make such strong shield? I'ts beacause that they aren't combatant, they are literally hilichurl tier for f*ck sake no matter if they were to meet monster and in worst case scenario ruin guard how are they going to escape? Of course by creating a shield that can buy them enough time to run away and no way can the normal shield withstand a onslaught of hillichurls or a single ruin guard considering how weak they are.

That's all that i have folks, hope you guys have a good time reading and for those that ask what about other abilities that scale with hp, well they're either heal or creating something that can easily be destroyed so no for them, the only exception that i can see are geo construct as they're the hardest and most durable of all element so they scaling above the average shield wouldn't make that big of a deal as they're actual construct while the average shield are just hardened elemental energy that doesn't have a form unlike any of the one i list above which have actual form.
 
Actually scrap that maxhp scaling is literally shit only one that are good and applicable is def and we don't even know how to treat that as, so unless we find a way to scale maxhp and def to the character, say goodbye to shield scaling.
 
Jackpact said:
Actually scrap that maxhp scaling is literally shit only one that are good and applicable is def and we don't even know how to treat that as, so unless we find a way to scale maxhp and def to the character, say goodbye to shield scaling.
Click to expand...
Honestly for now we could just treat shields as "Vaguely way tougher" because for now it seems like a gigantic headache
 
Will continue to update it as new character is released, Eula haven't released so i will wait a bit before adding her.
 
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