Genshin 4A downgrade...

[Dog3352]

Those clothing are from Simulanka; everything in Simulanka is said to have been created with the same magic.

The clothes already appear on them, nothing says that the clothes are created with Simulnaka material or anything like that.
And I think you're forgetting that some things may have been created with real-life material, like the inhabitants of Simulnaka who are real-life origami, so the clothing isn't far from that possibility.

 

[GarrixianXD]

From Paimon's perspective, it would be logical for her not to be able to tell whether the 4-A realm is within the book or not.

The clothes already appear on them, nothing says that the clothes are created with Simulnaka material or anything like that.

Phantom in Boots

Phantom in Boots is a 4-Star Character Outfit for Kirara. During Version 4.8, Phantom in Boots was obtainable for free as a reward from Summertide Scales and Tales, after finding 125 Excerpts of Bliss in Simulanka. In Version 5.0, it became purchasable in the Character Outfit Shop for the cost...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

Breeze of Sabaa

Breeze of Sabaa is a 4-Star Character Outfit for Nilou. It is purchasable from the Character Outfit Shop. During Version 4.8, Breeze of Sabaa was available at a limited-time discount of Genesis Crystal ×1,350. In Version 5.0, its cost was increased to Genesis Crystal ×1,680. Nilou's hair is tied...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

Clearly should say those outfits aren't from Simulanka; funnily you admitted yourself that those clothing were from the realm, now you're contradicting your previous argument.

 

[Weaver261]

None of this means anything, especially since I have already given multiple blatant and obvious showings that the realm is not fictional.

Just the cat trodding on the paper of the story can make the three worlds fold into one? Sounds like R>F to me. Mind that Narrator is the first being in Simulanka and already existing before the worlds merge. Bring items and toy people into Teyvat don't really indicate Simulanka is real since you can create things on the transition between the two.

The mage said the fairytales are works of fiction. But she contradicted it by saying "The world within the fairytales is real as can be."
But the footnote (echo of B) made it clear that you need to break free from the story first. They are fictional becuz the line between footnotes and narrative can never be crossed. The presence of Kirara made it possible to cross to the footnote. Without Kirara, they will remain fictional.

Footnote: The line that separates footnotes from narrative can never be crossed. Never the two shall meet. This is why you have never heard my voice before.
Footnote: But now, you wish to break free from the story — and there's a cat nearby — so you can hear my echo.

 

[Dog3352]

From Paimon's perspective, it would be logical for her not to be able to tell whether the 4-A realm is within the book or not.

Paimon literally states such a thing, and Woofy doesn't deny it, for God's sake, it's obvious that she knows the world is inside the book.

Phantom in Boots

Phantom in Boots is a 4-Star Character Outfit for Kirara. During Version 4.8, Phantom in Boots was obtainable for free as a reward from Summertide Scales and Tales, after finding 125 Excerpts of Bliss in Simulanka. In Version 5.0, it became purchasable in the Character Outfit Shop for the cost...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

Breeze of Sabaa

Breeze of Sabaa is a 4-Star Character Outfit for Nilou. It is purchasable from the Character Outfit Shop. During Version 4.8, Breeze of Sabaa was available at a limited-time discount of Genesis Crystal ×1,350. In Version 5.0, its cost was increased to Genesis Crystal ×1,680. Nilou's hair is tied...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

Clearly should say those outfits aren't from Simulanka; funnily you admitted yourself that those clothing were from the realm, now you're contradicting your previous argument.

I said they are from Simulnaka (they came from there), not that they are made from Simulnaka material/magic.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Just the cat trodding on the paper of the story can make the three worlds fold into one? Sounds like R>F to me. Mind that Narrator is the first being in Simulanka and already existing before the worlds merge. Bring items and toy people into Teyvat don't really indicate Simulanka is real since you can create things on the transition between the two.

The mage said the fairytales are works of fiction. But she contradicted it by saying "The world within the fairytales is real as can be."
But the footnote (echo of B) made it clear that you need to break free from the story first. They are fictional becuz the line between footnotes and narrative can never be crossed. The presence of Kirara made it possible to cross to the footnote. Without Kirara, they will remain fictional.

So basically, they're real, and not actually fictional in a literal sense. Great job Weaver, you just proved my point. The entire idea of the world being fake and fictional is entirely self-contradicting.

Paimon literally states such a thing, and Woofy doesn't deny it, for God's sake, it's obvious that she knows the world is inside the book.

Paimon mentioned storybooks in-general, and Woofy did not respond by affirming what Paimon said, only responded with "you know what I mean". Not to mention that the "World Within the Painting" is a title in-name as a proper noun; also, considering the entire thing is made of magic and supernatural type of Harry Potter shit, it also diminishes that the "World Within the Painting" is actually stored in a painting anyways.

I said they are from Simulnaka (they came from there), not that they are made from Simulnaka material/magic.

This is like saying you're from Earth but you're not made of anything from Earth.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Just the cat trodding on the paper of the story can make the three worlds fold into one? Sounds like R>F to me. Mind that Narrator is the first being in Simulanka and already existing before the worlds merge. Bring items and toy people into Teyvat don't really indicate Simulanka is real since you can create things on the transition between the two.

The mage said the fairytales are works of fiction. But she contradicted it by saying "The world within the fairytales is real as can be."
But the footnote (echo of B) made it clear that you need to break free from the story first. They are fictional becuz the line between footnotes and narrative can never be crossed. The presence of Kirara made it possible to cross to the footnote. Without Kirara, they will remain fictional.

Anyways, re-reading these scans. Fairytales are said to be works of fiction, yet the worlds within fairytales are as real as they can be. Even stuff from these fairytale worlds can be brought into the real world; the logic itself is self-contradicting, although, the fact that clothes are brought out of Simulanka should hold more basis of it being real rather than being fiction. Guess it could be dismissed as those fairytales are rather referring to those worlds that are based on fairytales. Not to mention this is all talking about Simulanka.

 

[Dog3352]

Paimon mentioned storybooks in-general, and Woofy did not respond by affirming what Paimon said, only responded with "you know what I mean". Not to mention that the "World Within the Painting" is a title in-name as a proper noun; also, considering the entire thing is made of magic and supernatural type of Harry Potter shit, it also diminishes that the "World Within the Painting" is actually stored in a painting anyways.

This is just meaningless denial now, there are literally several statements that make it clear that the world is inside the book, and the Worlds inside the paintings exist, not just me, but even you posted a link that shows what the Worlds inside the paintings are real, your denial is simply meaningless at the moment and completely contradictory to everything the game says.

Woofy says that the Traveler's adventures within IT are written in the book/IT itself, and that these adventures fill the book, and even calls these adventures "history" (book story);
Woofy states that as he ventures, the pages fill up;
Paimon states that worlds exist both within the book and within the paintings, which really exist (she literally says "now a world inside a painting?", clearly talking about A world that exists inside a painting).

This is like saying you're from Earth but you're not made of anything from Earth.

It's amazing how your example doesn't make any sense, the inhabitants are from Simulnaka, and they are all made of real world matter (paper), bruh.

So basically, they're real, and not actually fictional in a literal sense. Great job Weaver, you just proved my point. The entire idea of the world being fake and fictional is entirely self-contradicting.

Bro, I think you missed the point, this is only for the inhabitants of Simulanka, as they are "real" beings (they are made of material from the real world), but who cannot, for example, go to the real world due to the limitations of history/destiny, and when they overcome this "destiny" (footnote), they become free from history and are able to go to the real world, this does not contradict the world not being real, this only serves specifically for the inhabitants.
They're basically part of the fiction/destiny/world (footnote), and when they overcome that, they become "real".

 

[Dog3352]

Anyways, re-reading these scans. Fairytales are said to be works of fiction, yet the worlds within fairytales are as real as they can be. Even stuff from these fairytale worlds can be brought into the real world; the logic itself is self-contradicting, although, the fact that clothes are brought out of Simulanka should hold more basis of it being real rather than being fiction. Guess it could be dismissed as those fairytales are rather referring to those worlds that are based on fairytales. Not to mention this is all talking about Simulanka.

The only things that went from Simulanka to the real world were the clothes and the inhabitants, the inhabitants are made of material from the real world, so they have nothing to do with Simulanka, and the clothes there is no evidence that they are created purely by the magic of creation of witches.
And doesn't "being as real as it can be" make it as real as the real world, if I say "a story is as real as it can be" does the story become real? Simulanka is as real as Simulanka itself can be, not as real as the real world.

 

[Weaver261]

Anyways, re-reading these scans. Fairytales are said to be works of fiction, yet the worlds within fairytales are as real as they can be. Even stuff from these fairytale worlds can be brought into the real world; the logic itself is self-contradicting, although, the fact that clothes are brought out of Simulanka should hold more basis of it being real rather than being fiction. Guess it could be dismissed as those fairytales are rather referring to those worlds that are based on fairytales. Not to mention this is all talking about Simulanka.

Did you even read? There's a line that differentiate the footnote of author (Mage B) and the narrative (story). Detective couldn't hear the voice of author before because he was inside the story. That proved real world is inaccessible to those inside story. And that line is stated as "can never be crossed". Kirara is playing the role of the cat that Mage B like to pet. Because of her existence as an echo in the story, it's made possible to cross the borderline of reality and fiction.

Footnote: The line that separates footnotes from narrative can never be crossed. Never the two shall meet. This is why you have never heard my voice before.
Footnote: But now, you wish to break free from the story — and there's a cat nearby — so you can hear my echo.

And this is specifically talking about Simulanka. So yeah, it's a clear R>F

 

[GarrixianXD]

This is just meaningless denial now, there are literally several statements that make it clear that the world is inside the book, and the Worlds inside the paintings exist, not just me, but even you posted a link that shows what the Worlds inside the paintings are real, your denial is simply meaningless at the moment and completely contradictory to everything the game says.

Hmm... you seem to have misinterpreted my argument. I'm claiming that Paimon was exaggerating about first travelling to a world from a book and then travelling to a world from a painting. And Paimon didn't actually mention "inside a storybook", is what I'm saying.

As for the new scan you provided, I came across this description which does say the world is within the painting, but then I stumbled across another description that says the painting takes you to a different domain upon touching the canvas. Seems like rather flowery language to say that you can access worlds through the painting.

@Furina003 @Le'garde273 Do any of you have more to add?

And this is specifically talking about Simulanka. So yeah, it's a clear R>F

Yeah, I'm lost.

 

[Dog3352]

Hmm... you seem to have misinterpreted my argument. I'm claiming that Paimon was exaggerating about first travelling to a world from a book and then travelling to a world from a painting. And Paimon didn't actually mention "inside a storybook", is what I'm saying.

As for the new scan you provided, I came across this description which does say the world is within the painting, but then I stumbled across another description that says the painting takes you to a different domain upon touching the canvas. Seems like rather flowery language to say that you can access worlds through the painting.

Yes, they are transported to domains, domains that exist within the paintings, as Paimon states, and also stated by the very text you focused on.

In a corner of the Theater Lobby, vibrant colors have emerged on a once-blank canvas. When someone touches the canvas, it transports them to different domains, based upon their different experiences...
Explore the worlds within the painting with specific companions, and perhaps precious memories may be painted into peerless pictures.

Explore the world within the painting with your companions and receive exclusive cosmetic rewards!

 

[GarrixianXD]

Oh. I didn't notice the next description is slightly different than that given in the other description since I've seen Genshin loading screens display the same message, my bad on that part. If that's the case then I suppose the world that's accessed through the painting will have its size extremely minimised then.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Consider me neutral for this revision now. The size of the realm seems to be in question since the World Within the Painting seems to have its size extremely minimised; I disagree with tampering with the UES though. The realm with the starry skies that serves as the main scaling for 4-A seems to be created with the same magic as the World Within the Painting.

@Furina003 @Le'garde273 @Saqphire @Woomica Does any of you have objections towards the 4-A realm that is used for scaling being different from that of the Painting?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

With that, the staffs that I asked and Garrixian pinged can come soon now we have at least reached the conclusion

 

[Weaver261]

Since there're a lot of statements hinting both Simulanka and Imaginarium Theatre are just fictions, I think we can just remove the whole 4-A thing from genshin. Don't hate me. I just don't like wanking

The Summary
OP and my arguments for 4-A downgrade
Imaginarium theater worlds are only real to those believe in it.
The lobby is stated as in between reality and fiction.
All the events that happened in the IT gameplay is written in the storybook.
Simulanka is a fiction but fictional characters can reach to real world with the help of goddess.
Simulanka is completely inferior to real world as just the clumping of story paper by a cat can merge three seperate story worlds.

4-A enjoyers' arguments
Imaginarium Theater isn't fiction as it's stated as "True Fantasy"
Book is used a portal to go to IT realms (never been stated that way)
Simulanka is real becuz you can bring items and ppl from it

 

[GarrixianXD]

4-A should be taken down on the basis of the size of the realm in question, not because it is fictional, though it's not like the results are going to matter in the end if this revision does get approved. Also, no matter how straightforward you think something is, you still need sufficient staff approval to apply a revision.

Don't hate me. I just don't like wanking

No offence, you're the one who brought up R>F in the first place.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Hang on, I'll ask the staffs once again

 

[GarrixianXD]

Actually, our standards on pocket realities refer to those worlds as spatially separate from the main Universe. This means that the objects of Teyvat cannot contain any of those worlds, because they are alternate dimensions and 4-D space-time continuums. I rescind back to my original stance.

Edit: I also have edited my counterarguments summary here.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

What's the current topic now?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

What's the current topic now?

Since there're a lot of statements hinting both Simulanka and Imaginarium Theatre are just fictions, I think we can just remove the whole 4-A thing from genshin. Don't hate me. I just don't like wanking

The Summary
OP and my arguments for 4-A downgrade
Imaginarium theater worlds are only real to those believe in it.
The lobby is stated as in between reality and fiction.
All the events that happened in the IT gameplay is written in the storybook.
Simulanka is a fiction but fictional characters can reach to real world with the help of goddess.
Simulanka is completely inferior to real world as just the clumping of story paper by a cat can merge three seperate story worlds.

4-A enjoyers' arguments
Imaginarium Theater isn't fiction as it's stated as "True Fantasy"
Book is used a portal to go to IT realms (never been stated that way)
Simulanka is real becuz you can bring items and ppl from it

 

[GarrixianXD]

What's the current topic now?

Genshin 4A downgrade...

If you're coming back to this, mind if I summarise the counterarguments towards the OP? A lot of the content doesn't exactly have much relevance to the source of the scaling of Tier 4, nor was it properly explained in the initial upgrade thread either. I advocate a summary for the downgrade as...

vsbattles.com

This post should summarise both sides of this CRT. It contains both Dog's argument and my counterpoints. Point number 6 is a new point I added to my counter arguments summary.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm still in support of Garrixian's side.

 

[Dog3352]

I don't think there's much to say, in the end, what matters is the fact that the argument of "term 'magic' in general = manipulation/use of elemental energy" is the only thing that supports the scale, which as I specifically described in the OP, this is not the case, in addition to there being no statement/evidence of the use of Elemental Energy or any type of UES in the creation magic used by the witches, I even put the scans directly saying what the creation magic is that the witches use to create the worlds.

And Simulanaka's point really matters, as it is what makes it clear what the witches' creation magic is.

All 3 witches created the Simulnaka;
All 3 witches have creation magic;
All 3 witches have the ability to make the "fantasy truth" become a "true fantasy" with their magic;
Simulnaka and Imaginarium Theather are created using witches' creation magic, and are realities within books (which also connects to the "true fantasy), making it obvious that it is the same creation magic.

Since the magic used to create the Simulnaka is the same one used to create the IT, the statements about Simulnaka also apply to the IT, in addition to the lines about magic.

Witches' creation magic is literally "create what I say/speak and create", it is even said that the world is made of words, so it is a magic/spell that gives the ability to create a pocket dimension with words, basically a creation hax of pocket dimension that has no evidence/statement of using elemental energy or any kind of UES (or something that makes creation scale to anything other than just creation).

Since the OP summarised his arguments, here are my objections:

1. The Imaginarium Theatre was specifically said to be created from a mysterious magical ink bottle called "fantasy truth", which Madame Mage harness it using her powers to create the realm called "true fantasy", which is the entire basis of the Genshin 4-A scaling. Simulanka wasn't said to have been created from fantasy truth, nor was it provided anywhere in this discussion that Simulanka was created using this "fantasy truth". Claiming that Simulanka was created using the same source and technique would rather be a hasty generalisation.

2. The Imaginarium Threatre wasn't created by any of the 3 witches who created Simulanka, but rather a mysterious unnamed witch named "Madame Mage", who isn't specified to be any of the 3 witches that created Simulanka. Claiming that "Madame Mage" is one of those 3 witches is also a hasty generalisation. Only Madame Mage was mentioned to be able to make "fantasy truth" into a "true fantasy"; not a single piece of evidence clearly hints that this ability applies to all of the 3 witches who created Simulanka.

3. The Imaginarium Threatre is accessed through a book, but it is said to be a world that is between the boundaries of reality and fantasy. Reality refers to the main Universe, and fantasy refers to fiction itself. Not to mention that it is been said to be a "true fantasy", which can be dismissed as a realm that has a fictional theme to it, rather than being a strictly fictional world. On top of it, it's been said that they were once fictional stories before being given a sort of life it, hinting that Madame Mage used her "fantasy truth" to transform it into a real world, and after all, it is been said to be a "true fantasy".

4. Witch Magic, including Creation, is part of the Genshin UES. More details are explained in these sections. Also, not to mention the concept of Alchemy, which is a technique of creation that entirely revolves around the seven elements of Teyvat. Also, yeah, no need to say but Madame Mage was said to have used her powers in order to use the "fantasy truth" to create the 4-A realm.

5. I proved why Simulanka shouldn't be relevant anymore. However, the Imgur scan of Nilou's statement was newly provided so I'll express my issues with it. I delved into the quest where that statement took place, and there's additional context towards it. Before Nilou's statement took place, she said that magic is used to give life to inanimate objects. She said that the magic is activated through an incantation, meaning you have to say "Abracadabra" to use the magic. The world of Simulanka was made with magic that gave life[1][2], which means the 3 goddesses will have to say "abracadabra" crap tons of times to create a Simulanka, hence why Nilou said, "This is a world made of words". Overall, it shows that it is a flowery language on her part, and the phrase "This is a world made of words" is not to be taken literally. Adding to that, there are various items brought from Simulanka into the real world, such as Nilou's and Navia's clothing.

6. Another concern was that the size of the 4-A realm might be taken into consideration because there is a realm called a World Within a Painting, which implies a similar world that is stored inside a painting, was created using the same magic that created the 4-A realm. However, it should be noted that Pocket Realities are spatially separate from other dimensions, therefore being stored within materialised objects of other universes won't count.

These are my summarised objections. However, I'll say that the current scaling chain is wrong and I do believe that 4-A rating should be deleted from various characters. However, it is another topic to be resolved; this CRT entirely revolves around the legitimacy of the 4-A feat itself, not the scaling chain or anything else.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Maverick_Zero_X @LephyrTheRevanchist @DarkGrath @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @LordGriffin1000 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Propellus Pinging for re-evaluation as requested.

I'll let the staff decide.

In addition to Woofy clearly talking about someone else and not Madame Mage (which is made very clear with "one of them"), there is also the fact that nothing says that IT was created by the ink, just that one of the witches has the ink

I think you clearly didn't read the entire Simulnaka mission, the Theater was created by Berbeloth (one of the 3 witches), as you can see from the description of the witch given by Woofy.


My interpretation continues to work here, besides the but, the world is not accessed through the book as if the book were a door, the world is literally inside the book, Alice herself says that she entered the book.
And you seem to be ignoring the statements in IT that the worlds are literally inside the book and paintings.

This is not a UES, it is just a section of skills, Elemental Energy which is a UES, it is necessary to use a UES to qualify for other statistics, which is not the case with witch creation magic.

Alchemy ≠ Witches' creation magic.

It's literal, and the context doesn't contradict or refute any of this, it just further supports this point.
Complaining about the spell needing to be said doesn't really refute or contradict anything.

Seem? That's all? It's clearly talking about the stages. If you start at act 1, you will be teleported to a stage room with cardboards. When you start the challenge, you will see cardboard falling down and the world behind the stage is revealed. The background of the stages changes at certain intervals. It's clearly clearly clearly indicating these are "The special worlds" wolfy is talking about. Seem isn't not enough to debunk that.

Here is the gameplay video

Honestly, I think these comments sum up my point.

 

[Furina003]

you take the size of the solar system while visually it shows the planets are so big, and here it is also explained, After the goddess of creation created the world, the goddess of prophecy created the rotating movement of sky and earth. which means the solar system in the world created by the wizard is real. and you need to know that what was created by this wizard can be said to be the Mundane fate system, which is the fate system that governs the entire universe.
and yes, once again I say it, and I have said this many times.
the world in the painting and the world in the book, it was normal for the pocket dimension.

Pocket realities, in this case, refers to realms that are spatially separate from other realms (including universes) and either are of less than universal size on the inside or appear as less than universe sized objects when observed from the outside.

So what's the problem here? This discussion just goes around and around the same discussion, It's simple, the world is in books and paintings (this is what pocket dimensions are like in general), visually the world shows very large planets, these worlds are also said to be real worlds, and lastly this world also has Earth's rotation and movement. sky (solar system). so everything is very clear, so I think there is nothing wrong with this scaling

 

[Weaver261]

I'm still in support of Garrixian's side.

Instead of just saying "I support this", why don't you explain why you support that side and point out why our arguments are wrong? Isn't this how it's supposed to be?

 

[Dog3352]

you take the size of the solar system while visually it shows the planets are so big, and here it is also explained, After the goddess of creation created the world, the goddess of prophecy created the rotating movement of sky and earth. which means the solar system in the world created by the wizard is real. and you need to know that what was created by this wizard can be said to be the Mundane fate system, which is the fate system that governs the entire universe.
and yes, once again I say it, and I have said this many times.
the world in the painting and the world in the book, it was normal for the pocket dimension.

So what's the problem here? This discussion just goes around and around the same discussion, It's simple, the world is in books and paintings (this is what pocket dimensions are like in general), visually the world shows very large planets, these worlds are also said to be real worlds, and lastly this world also has Earth's rotation and movement. sky (solar system). so everything is very clear, so I think there is nothing wrong with this scaling

Seem? That's all? It's clearly talking about the stages. If you start at act 1, you will be teleported to a stage room with cardboards. When you start the challenge, you will see cardboard falling down and the world behind the stage is revealed. The background of the stages changes at certain intervals. It's clearly clearly clearly indicating these are "The special worlds" wolfy is talking about. Seem isn't not enough to debunk that.

Here is the gameplay video

I don't think there's much to say, in the end, what matters is the fact that the argument of "term 'magic' in general = manipulation/use of elemental energy" is the only thing that supports the scale, which as I specifically described in the OP, this is not the case, in addition to there being no statement/evidence of the use of Elemental Energy or any type of UES in the creation magic used by the witches, I even put the scans directly saying what the creation magic is that the witches use to create the worlds.

And Simulanaka's point really matters, as it is what makes it clear what the witches' creation magic is.

All 3 witches created the Simulnaka;
All 3 witches have creation magic;
All 3 witches have the ability to make the "fantasy truth" become a "true fantasy" with their magic;
Simulnaka and Imaginarium Theather are created using witches' creation magic, and are realities within books (which also connects to the "true fantasy), making it obvious that it is the same creation magic.

Since the magic used to create the Simulnaka is the same one used to create the IT, the statements about Simulnaka also apply to the IT, in addition to the lines about magic.

Witches' creation magic is literally "create what I say/speak and create", it is even said that the world is made of words, so it is a magic/spell that gives the ability to create a pocket dimension with words, basically a creation hax of pocket dimension that has no evidence/statement of using elemental energy or any kind of UES (or something that makes creation scale to anything other than just creation).

The size isn't even really being discussed, but rather about it being real.
The stars of Simulanka are literally created as a reflection of the sky of Teyvat, so the stars of Simulanka cannot be real either, and the fate of the world was created by Berbeloth herself (who is also connected to the stars of Simulanka), there is no no connection to any kind of "mundane music" or anything like that, just creation magic and Hydromancy.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Isn't this how it's supposed to be?

It's our responsibility to present arguments; staff members evaluate the pieces of evidence and logic provided by each side; they're not complied to do our dirty work.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

It's our responsibility to present arguments; staff members evaluate the pieces of evidence and logic provided by each side; they're not complied to do our dirty work.

Thing is, this looks too one-sided in the favor of disagreement, doesn't mentioned how much you pulled out the mods flex which giving this debate in unfair side to them

I'm still in support of Garrixian's side.

Honestly you should reread what's has been debated

 

[GarrixianXD]

Cut it with the narcissism and baseless accusations of staff bias, unless you want to take the matters to the RVRT. Disrespecting the staff members who put effort into their evaluations is deplorable.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Cut it with the narcissism and baseless accusations of staff bias, unless you want to take the matters to the RVRT. Disrespecting the staff members who put effort into their evaluations is deplorable.

You can report me, but it's clear I'm just pointing this out about you and the reason why the thread had gotten so long
And your comment is a proof of how much you flexed your status depsite I'm pointing in civil manner

Mind you tho, I'm neutral with this thread, it just I disagree with "everyone is 4A"

 

[Furina003]

The size isn't even really being discussed, but rather about it being real.
The stars of Simulanka are literally created as a reflection of the sky of Teyvat, so the stars of Simulanka cannot be real either, and the fate of the world was created by Berbeloth herself (who is also connected to the stars of Simulanka), there is no no connection to any kind of "mundane music" or anything like that, just creation magic and Hydromancy.

Unreal language has never even existed in the slightest, even though Alice as the creator god has said that this world is real.

What is meant by stars which are reflections is a metaphor for destiny created in simulanka. which is based on the world of Teyvat, such as Durin who is an evil dragon taken from the story of Durin in the real world

 

[Dog3352]

Unreal language has never even existed in the slightest, even though Alice as the creator god has said that this world is real.

She has never claimed he is real.

What is meant by stars which are reflections is a metaphor for destiny created in simulanka. which is based on the world of Teyvat, such as Durin who is an evil dragon taken from the story of Durin in the real world

It is not a metaphor, both the stars and destiny are reflections of the stars and the destiny of Teyvat, if the stars were not a mirror of the stars of Teyvat, Mona should not be able to notice that the destiny of Simulanka and the destiny of Teyvat are the same through the stars.

 

[Furina003]

She has never claimed he is real.

It is not a metaphor, both the stars and destiny are reflections of the stars and the destiny of Teyvat, if the stars were not a mirror of the stars of Teyvat, Mona should not be able to notice that the destiny of Simulanka and the destiny of Teyvat are the same through the stars.

She once expressed that, because she watched what Andresdotter wrote, she wanted to explore the book for real, and she asked Andresdotter for permission to make a simulanka.
I even displayed this on my CRT when I upgraded.

which means the reflection of the stars is fate, this is what depends on metropid
so how do you explain these stars?? These are 2 different things and how do you explain the rotation of the solar system there?

That's why I explained Mundana destiny to you, I'm not equating Mundana destiny of the Teyvat world with Simulanka, but I want to convey to you that what was created by Simulanka is a universal destiny that governs the universe which proves the solar system in that world is real

 

[Furina003]

She has never claimed he is real.

It is not a metaphor, both the stars and destiny are reflections of the stars and the destiny of Teyvat, if the stars were not a mirror of the stars of Teyvat, Mona should not be able to notice that the destiny of Simulanka and the destiny of Teyvat are the same through the stars.

if you say that based on mona's statement,

Mona even said that the world in the Teyvat sky was a real star.

and the wizard creates stars that are reflections of stars from the real world, which sets the same destiny as the real world, meaning that the stars in the simulanka are also real.

 

[Woomica]

Consider me neutral for this revision now. The size of the realm seems to be in question since the World Within the Painting seems to have its size extremely minimised; I disagree with tampering with the UES though. The realm with the starry skies that serves as the main scaling for 4-A seems to be created with the same magic as the World Within the Painting.

@Furina003 @Le'garde273 @Saqphire @Woomica Does any of you have objections towards the 4-A realm that is used for scaling being different from that of the Painting?

i dont follow the thread anymore so leave that to them

 

[Dog3352]

which means the reflection of the stars is fate, this is what depends on metropid
so how do you explain these stars?? These are 2 different things and how do you explain the rotation of the solar system there?

The stars of Metropid are the stars that we take in our hands and place back in the sky, while the others are the stars that are the reflection of the stars of Teyvat.
Whether or not a rotation system exists does not prove that it is real.

That's why I explained Mundana destiny to you, I'm not equating Mundana destiny of the Teyvat world with Simulanka, but I want to convey to you that what was created by Simulanka is a universal destiny that governs the universe which proves the solar system in that world is real

This does not prove that it is real, as there is no real connection between the two.

if you say that based on mona's statement,

Mona even said that the world in the Teyvat sky was a real star.

and the wizard creates stars that are reflections of stars from the real world, which sets the same destiny as the real world, meaning that the stars in the simulanka are also real.

Bruh, for Mona, the stars in the fake sky are real, since she doesn't even know about the fake sky, it's not like characters like Mona know exactly what a real star looks like, besides, you say that the stars in the fake sky are real literally contradicts the story of Genshin, as the fake sky has already been proven to exist.
Besides the but, meteorites/"stars" that make a person sleep? Yeah, that doesn't look like a real star at all.

Edit: I just read the quest, and in fact, the stars are not real, as far as I remember, that's where it started about the "theory" of the fake sky, and Scaramouche discovered that those stars are not real.

Where Ancient Stars Align

Where Ancient Stars Align is the main quest for the fourth and final phase of the Unreconciled Stars event: Where Ancient Stars Align. Ask Mona about the progress of her scrying Talk to Katheryne in Mondstadt Search for clues in the Mondstadt Library Check the index in front of Lisa's desk Look...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

So my point remains.

 

[Rayfire]

There seems to be a lot of contradictions for the fairytales being real of fake such as what weaver brought up, although im still agreeing with the downgrades, as this would still make it unusable regardless, and therefore 4-A genshin goes on this one. There's simply too many contradictions in the narrative it seems, and far too inconsistent to be reliable even in the best case scenario

The mage said the fairytales are works of fiction. But she contradicted it by saying "The world within the fairytales is real as can be."

In any case, this doesn't sound very "real" to me if a cat of all things can merge the three worlds in it though, lol, and this is something that's actually been done according to detective, not just another statement.

 

[Furina003]

The stars of Metropid are the stars that we take in our hands and place back in the sky, while the others are the stars that are the reflection of the stars of Teyvat.
Whether or not a rotation system exists does not prove that it is real.

Yes, those are the stars that rule destiny, so how do you explain the other stars, not just in the metropole, but the entire simulanka sky like the picture I gave? and even has the rotation of the earth and stars, which means it is real.

This does not prove that it is real, as there is no real connection between the two.

Bruh, for Mona, the stars in the fake sky are real, since she doesn't even know about the fake sky, it's not like characters like Mona know exactly what a real star looks like, besides, you say that the stars in the fake sky are real literally contradicts the story of Genshin, as the fake sky has already been proven to exist.
Besides the but, meteorites/"stars" that make a person sleep? Yeah, that doesn't look like a real star at all.

ona said that real stars are even thousands of light years away. How can you say that Mona's statement is not credible?
Meanwhile, Mona is a student of Barbeloth, one of the strongest Hexenzirkle wizards who really understands astrology and also helped create the simulanka?
The problem with the fake sky is that it is not yet clear whether the stars are fake or not, the fake sky could be a different dimension, even if you have completed the latest Natlan world quest you will be shown an island floating high above the sky above the clouds.

Here it is even explained that the sun and moon were created to create the cycle of day and night

 

[Weaver261]

The problem with the fake sky is that it is not yet clear whether the stars are fake or not, the fake sky could be a different dimension,

The fake sky is the barrier primordial one made on the planet, the sky shroud in which stars are hung. There are multiple statements of these stars being meteorites. The planet highest altitude is light years away? Mona words aren't credible here since she doesn't know much about fake sky. But we know more becuz it has been hinted in item lore, boss lore, books several times. Each star in fake sky holds the fate of each person in Teyvat. That's how Astrologers divine. That's why Mona instantly know Simulanka is based on Teyvat just by looking at stars. Star as meteorite is still not fake star? And wdym fake sky is a different dimension???? It's literally a layer over the planet. A barrier.
Moreover Simulanka is fictional and has a clear R>F feat. You should clear that first before arguing about stars being real or not.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Argues for reality-fictional transcendence.

Shit from the realm appears in the real world anyways.

Oof.