Genshin 4A downgrade...

[Dog3352]

Basically a downgrade of this CRT from Genshin 4A.

For starters, Genshin's general UES (elemental energy) thing doesn't really matter in the CRT, as there is no statement about witches using elemental energy or any type of energy in creating the world.

Well, in this CRT, I will explain everything that is not explained in the upgrade CRT, in addition to explaining some obvious misinterpretations.

The things that need to be explained are the "creation magic" (how exactly it works/what it does) and what the "real fantasy" stuff means.

Talinkg about Simulnaka:

The world, before being “created”, was nothing more than a book written by M.

Old Journal: "Hmm... Why don't I write a story with origami animals as the main characters? Let's see... Once upon a time, in a magical Forest, there lived a group of animals made of paper..."

The world continues to exist only in the book (there is no evidence of it actually existing):

Alice: When Durin of Simulanka made his wish to the Goddess of Fate, it just so happened that in a world far away, all of you wonderful people were holding a copy of M's fairytale at that exact moment.

Alice: And because of your noble and kind souls, you were selected by the Goddess of Fate to come and save this world.

Basically: The world is a pocket dimension that only exists in a book.

The world was “created” by a witches’ creation magic, 3 witches “created” this world, using a magic that basically person “speaks and the thing is created”, there is also no statement/evidence that this magic uses elemental energy or any other type of energy (it does not use UES), something that is necessary to scale the creation of a pocket dimension to 4A:

Ginkgo: In her hands, she held the very paper used to form our bodies. She whispered something into the pages... And then, suddenly, a paper frog was born, ready to leap into the world! Oh, it was spectacular!
Chestnut: Cut the theatrics, will you? You weren't even there...
Paimon: Wait, so... That's it? Paimon thought creation magic would have a little bit more... pizzazz.

Wolfy: But the other mages all love her magic. They use their powers of creation to transform her "fantasy truth" into "true fantasy."

The Simulnaka/reality (world within the book) is literally created by an enchantment (I believe it is a spell, and witches can use spells, and this magic has an "enchantment", just like spells in fictional works) that the person " speaks and is created", which has no evidence of any use of Elemental Energy (UES).

Nilou: "The incantation, 'Abracadabra,' means 'to create what I say.' This is a world made of words, where fantastical powers can be wielded by all."

The world (Simulnaka) is declared, even within this reality/world/book, where its existence would be at the most real it could be, as “as real as the fiction of the real world (things like books and stories)" and “compared to a dream”:

This scan was clearly misinterpreted.

The main point of the error of interpretation is that the question is: "Which is more real, the fiction of the outside world, or the truth of this world?".

Basically, the question is whether the world created by Alice is more or less real than the fiction of the real world, which is answered by saying that the fiction of the real world and the world created by Alice are equally real, leaving even more obvious that the world created by Alice does not exist physically (it does not exist in reality), and it is as real as the fiction of the real world, which makes sense, since it does not exist in a literal/physical sense.

There is also what the narrator uses to explain this, he says: "Hear, hear. Who can be sure that the outside world isn't just a dream? And that when the dreamer wakes up, they won't just find themselves inside a novel?".

Basically, the narrator uses the possibility of the "real world" being just a dream as a justification for saying that the Simulanka/world/book is "as real as the fiction of the real world", not just claiming that the world/Simulanka is "as as real as fiction", as well as comparing it to a dream.

Narrator: Cappet's words gave (Traveler) food for thought: Could it be that "the truth" in a fictional world is equivalent to "fiction" in the real world?

Conclusion for now: The world (Simulnaka) is a pocket dimension, and the world was created by a creation magic that has no proof of using elemental energy or any other energy (does not use UES), all 3 witches have the magic of creation, and the world/book/reality, even from the point of view where it would be as real as it could be (within reality), it is said to be “as real as the fiction of the real world” (declared to be basically fiction) and “compared to a dream” (his existence is compared to a dream), basically, he is not real (it is fiction).

Talking about the Room/Lobby Theater and the Book/Imaginarium Theater:

The Room/Lobby Theather is described as a room that needs an invitation to enter, the Room/Lobby Theather is where things like paintings and a book are kept.

The Book lead to the world that exists within the book, as I showed in the last scan.

When entering the world/book interacting with the book, this message appears, which makes it clear that the Imaginarium Theather is what exists inside the book, this is the book that the person enters to go to the world(s).

The "starry sky (the space with Stars)" that is in the update CRT only exists within the Book/Imaginarium Theather (although it is difficult to see due to the constant movement, you can still see that the place where he is is the same place where the starry sky appears in the scan).

Simulnaka and Imaginarium Theather are clearly the same type of existence, as can be seen from their connections:
Both are created by witches' creation magic;
Both are worlds that exist only within a book;
Woofy's statement (They use their powers of creation to transform her "fantasy truth" into "true fantasy.") makes this even clearer, as he clearly states that all witches have the same creation magic used to create the Imaginarium Theather, which taking into account the connections, is obviously the same magic used to create the Simulnaka;
The statements "make them a real fantasy", "exist between reality and fantasy" and "as real as the fiction of the world" are statements that fit perfectly with my interpretation of the Simulnaka and the Imaginarium Theather;
And the fact that both were nothing more than normal fantasy/fiction until they became realities within their respective books.

Due to this, which makes it obvious that they both use the same creation magic to be created and are the same type of existence, the statements about the existence of Simulnaka also apply to the Imaginarium Theather.

Conclusion for now: The "worlds" and the starry sky exist only inside the book and in paintings, there is also a lack of evidence to say that the stars are real, in addition to all this mixed with everything I said previously, it proves that the worlds within Imaginarium Theater and the Simulanka do not actually exist, but are just worlds that exist only within books/paintings, which are declared to be "as real as fiction" and "compared to a dream" (not real), the witches they didn't create a real world/reality, but rather they created a world/reality inside books and paintings that only exist inside the paintings and books themselves (they don't really exist), and that even inside, the worlds are "as real as fiction " and "compared to a dream" (they don't really exist).

Speaking about the “magic = elemental energy” argument:

Regarding magic in general and the “term 'magic' = elemental energy” argument, this is definitely not true, because there are several things (or can be considered) that have the term "magic" in genshin, such as spells and the magic of others races.

Clearly elemental energy is not being talked about here:

Wolfy: That moment when you first step onto the stage, do you not feel anything different at all? Do you not feel the unique ambiance within the magic ring?
Wolfy: sigh... This is one thing even one such as I, the concierge, cannot help you with...
Wolfy: It is only when guests "believe" from the bottom of their hearts that it's all real that the doors to that special world open wide before them.
Wolfy: When that happens, dear guest, you will understand that performing is a game, but also a ceremony, and thus does it too possess the power of magic!

One of them uses a quill pen to cast her spells. She has a very special bottle that contains "fantasy truth.

Paimon: So, in the eyes of an adeptus, creating a magic teapot world is just child's play, huh?

Magic of Kitsunes:

Legend has it that in the time of the Great Kitsune Hakushin, she had six apprentices. All were greatly skilled in magic and in shape-shifting. Day-to-day, they were tasked with assisting their matriarch, Hakushin, in managing the shrine and defending Mt. Yougou.

Magic of Shikigami and Shikifuda:

The art of onmyoudou primarily involves the use of charm magic via shikigami and shikifuda. Shikigami are paper cut-outs that are embued with magical powers; examples include Shiki Taishou and his many replicas, such as Shiki Koshou. Originally, samurai would combine the shikigami's charm magic with their own martial prowess to fight off monsters. Shikifuda are paper seals, and they could be used during combat, similar to shikigami. These focus mainly on elemental powers.

Even Mona talks about Alice having mystical arts, making it clear once again that not everything that Alice does that is supernatural is with Elemental Energy.

Mona: But my predictions can't be mistaken... Well, let's make sure. Your mother's name is Alice, isn't it?
Klee: That's right! Oh, so you're Mommy's friend! But she's gone very far away...
Mona: My readings told me as much. But before she left, she must have imparted her mystical arts to you, surely?

There is also the magic bottle.

And more others.

Definitive evidence that witches' creation magic does not use elemental energy:

Nilou, who is unable to use elemental energy or her vision, calls the creation magic she uses "magic" (her creation magic that she can use in Simulanka is the witches' creation magic, as it is said/described here), making it clear once again that creation magic has nothing to do with elemental energy, creation magic being it is a magic that was used by a character who was unable to use elemental energy or the vision, in addition to her also saying that "the magic is in the words", showing once again that the magic of creation has nothing to do with elemental energy.

Nilou: Unfortunately, Idon't know how to use the "magic" of this world. I've tried using my Vision, but it doesn't seem to work here...

Nilou: Well... All I did was say my wishes for her out loud. Maybe the magic is in the words, themselves, just like the book said!

Nilou: The moment I used magic, I sensed something... strange down there. I have a feeling it's connected to why the Tavern had to close down.

Nilou: "The incantation, 'Abracadabra,' means 'to create what I say.' This is a world made of words, where fantastical powers can be wielded by all."

About CRT arguments and scans:

Technically, I already mentioned all the important arguments/scans, the ones that mattered most were this scan (which was misinterpreted) and this (which really loses importance with what I said in the OP).

Lack of evidence and disproved things:

I refuted the “term ‘magic’ in general = elemental energy”;
The proof that the world exists has also been refuted;
There is a lack of evidence that the world exists;
And lack of evidence to prove that the world is created by some type of energy (UES).

Conclusion:
The worlds use the same creation magic;
Worlds do not exist (“as real as fiction” and “compared to a dream);
There is no longer evidence of the use of UES or any type of energy in the creation of the Worlds;
The term magic in general is not just for “elemental energy”;
Worlds only exist inside books, and they do not really exist (in reality), where outside the world/book/reality it is nothing more than a book, and only inside it becomes a "reality" within the book, which is clearly just a hax of the "pocket reality manipulation" (no scale for AP, DC, power, or others things), it's just a reality inside the book, and outside it's nothing more than a normal book, this reality/world inside the book doesn't really exist, being said to be "as real as the fiction of the real world" (like books and stories) and is "compared to a dream".

---

Agree: @Smashtwig, @Setsuna_tenma, @Puppet43, @Giannysmag, @TWILIGHT-OP, @Woomica, @JohnHendrix212, @DivinumAeterna, @Voidnether, @Weaver261, @GrandAdmiralCosmicBrains, @Da3ggman, @Confluctor, @Nero1215, @EastofEden07, @Shey, @InfinityTurtleHD, @Maverick_Zero_X

Neutral:

Disageee: @Furina003, @GarrixianXD, @Saqphire, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Tyri456, @Valxxroyz, @Breakdown, @Sahlwrld, @Berento_Magnifico

 

[Dereck03]

@GarrixianXD

 

[Woomica]

@GarrixianXD

garrixian is asleep and will deal with this later

 

[Robo432343]

disagree for reasons below

 

[Furina003]

You have agreed that it is a pocket dimension, and 4a is indeed obtained from creating a pocket dimension that has a starry sky.

doesn't this refute anything?

 

[ZENZUYA]

People in that crt agree the pocket reality one and the pocket world have this

 

[Dog3352]

You have agreed that it is a pocket dimension, and 4a is indeed obtained from creating a pocket dimension that has a starry sky.

doesn't this refute anything?

This only scales to creation/pocket reality and nothing else (much less to other characters, since it's just a creation hax without using UES or anything like that, just like the subspaces created by Adeptus), different from how it's being scaled at the moment.

People in that crt agree the pocket reality one and the pocket world have this

I recommend reading the CRT, my goal is not to deny that there is "it" in theater.
This starry sky only exists within the book in the room, as this starry sky only exists on the map that the person is sent after interacting with the book in the room, making it clear that it is exactly like Simulanka (as I am suggesting on the CRT)

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree not to mention huge outlier for archons who has tier 6 feats consistently 4A is a massive outlier for them

also the stars in simulanka are not real we literally go to the sky and see they are not star sized in the quest

 

[Puppet43]

agree cause i hate 4A, better was the 6B

 

[Dog3352]

agree not to mention huge outlier for archons who has tier 6 feats consistently 4A is a massive outlier for them

also the stars in simulanka are not real we literally go to the sky and sea they are not star sized in the quest

Well, besides you being right that there is no proof that stars are real, there is also the fact that this was considered a star in Simulanka (this is basically the size of a human hand, and the characters even pick them up), So the appearance of the stars in the sky in Simulanka and in the theater could very well be just to have the appearance of normal stars, but up close, they actually look like that (I'm not saying, but that's a possibility).

Navia: Then first, we have to restore the sky back to its original state by putting the stars back in their positions. But it looks like we haven't recovered all the lost stars yet.

 

[Giannysmag]

I was already working on a downgrade and you covered the whole fantasy/reality and Magic stuff well but I wanna add two more things.

For one the creation feats are massive outliers considering the highest destruction feats we got are Venti yeating a mountain and some earthquake feats (6-C to 6-B) and the highest physical feat we got is Zhongli cutting a mountain which would end up at like what? 7-B? This is a verse that treats throwing mountains and creating storms as impressive God Tier feats. Hell even looking at something like the sinners, who each possess 1/5th of a power to destroy the world and that was enough for Dain to consider them "transcendent beings" when all of them should be 4-A anyway by our current scale.

Secondly no one that currently has a profile should even scale to the Hexenzirkle to begin with (aside from maybe Neuvillette). The only justification given in the upgrade CRT is that:

the hexenzirkle wizard once challenged barbatos to a fight, Diluk also once explained that Alice was the only person besides Barbatos who could rule Golden Apple Island. From this we can conclude that Barbatos has power that is at least equivalent to a Hexenzirkle wizard or vice versa

Which is completely meaningless since they never actually fought Barbatos, if anything the fact they had the balls to challenge an Archon in his prime probably implies them to be superior (either way tho we don't know because they never fought)

So yea completely agree with the downgrade

 

[ZENZUYA]

Well you 2 are missunderstood where we say that as the starry sky for the upgrades

We didn't mention that goofy ah star paper as the starry sky we mention in that crt

But this

And for some ppl who gonna say the whole upgrades is outlier cause archon only destroy island

Man plis that was fallacy ngl

The scale of hexenzirkel are valid

But the main problem is how to scale archon to hexenzirkel level

 

[Dog3352]

Secondly no one that currently has a profile should even scale to the Hexenzirkle to begin with (aside from maybe Neuvillette). The only justification given in the upgrade CRT is that:
Which is completely meaningless since they never actually fought Barbatos, if anything the fact they had the balls to challenge an Archon in his prime probably implies them to be superior (either way tho we don't know because they never fought)

So yea completely agree with the downgrade

Even if they fought, it wouldn't escalate at all, since Alice hasn't demonstrated any 4A "feats" other than with pure creation, and she doesn't even use any kind of UES for that creation, so in the best case scenario, it escalates to a pocket dimension creation/reality 4A for Alice.

 

[Giannysmag]

And for some ppl who gonna say the whole upgrades is outlier cause archon only destroy island

Man plis that was no limit fallacy ngl

That is not what a no limits fallacy is

 

[Dog3352]

Well you 2 are missunderstood where we say that as the starry sky for the upgrades

We didn't mention that goofy ah star paper as the starry sky we mention in that crt

This star that I mentioned is not really important for the downgrade, I just see it as a small possibility.

But this

And for some ppl who gonna say the whole upgrades is outlier cause archon only destroy island

Man plis that was no limit fallacy ngl

I believe this is supposed to be a scan? I click and just go to the Imgur home page.

 

[ZENZUYA]

1/5th of a power to destroy the world and that was enough for Dain to consider them "transcendent beings" when all of them should be 4-A anyway by our current scale.

So the world threat are going to be 4A?

 

[Giannysmag]

So the world threat are going to be 4A?

By our current scale they would be (They are the six greats of Khanreah and would thus be comparable to Prime Capitano who was a commander). And yet they are stated to have world shattering power and that is treated as a big deal by Dain so logically they wouldn't be 4-A and neither would Dain which is why I brought it up.

 

[ZENZUYA]

I believe this is supposed to be a scan? I click and just go to the Imgur home page.

Wait

You can see this

 

[Dog3352]

Wait

You can see this

I had seen this when you first sent it to me, I thought it was a different scan... but as I said before, regardless of whether or not there are stars in the theater, the downgrade doesn't focus on "having or not having stars".

 

[Smashtwig]

Dog has been my goat ever since he took down the Traveler scaling to Raiden argument. Agree

 

[ZENZUYA]

I do agree the downgrade for some bad justification like shenhe and xiao being 4-A this justification break the power scaling for a while

But maybe the archon level character will stay at 4A

They can be classified as one of the strongest gods in Teyvat because they won the archon war in their own country

 

[Woomica]

I do agree the downgrade for some bad justification like shenhe and xiao being 4-A this justification break the power scaling for a while

ill rearrange god tier scaling after this revision

But maybe the archon level character will stay at 4A

They can be classified as one of the strongest gods in Teyvat because they won the archon war in their own country

No, venti straight up rejected challenge from witches, and the crt clearly explained why entire 4-A feat is outside El energy

 

[Furina003]

This only scales to creation/pocket reality and nothing else (much less to other characters, since it's just a creation hax without using UES or anything like that, just like the subspaces created by Adeptus), different from how it's being scaled at the moment.

It has been explained in the previous CRT that elemental energy is UES, magic itself is still related to elemental energy.
You can see it here:
1. Gnosis is a vision that is said to be magic, which we know that gnosis and vision are to use elemental powers
2. A magic guidebook that discusses elemental energy
3. Mona, a student of Barbelot, uses elemental hydro to predict, this magic was taught directly by Barbeloth, the person who created the Imaginarium Theater and Simulanka.
4. Crimson Witch of Flames uses elemental pyro
5. Samachurls who cast magic to summon elemental energy and that is why they can use elemental power without vision.
As explained here, UES can be used to increase character stats including attack potency and durability, so if Alice is able to create a pocket dimension that has a starry sky, this will increase her attack potency.
Why is it possible to scale to Barbatos?
Alice is thedefender of Old Monstadt, Old Monstadt is Monstadt led by the decarabian storm god, which means Alice has a level below Decarabian and Decarabian was defeated by Barbatos in the fight. From this we can conclude that Barbatos is stronger than Alice because he was able to defeat Decarabian who is the leader of Old Monstadt.

 

[Dog3352]

I do agree the downgrade for some bad justification like shenhe and xiao being 4-A this justification break the power scaling for a while

But maybe the archon level character will stay at 4A

They can be classified as one of the strongest gods in Teyvat because they won the archon war in their own country

Damn, I didn't know some fodders scaled for this too, this upgrade was scary.

But, the problem is that 4A would in the best case scenario be made from 4A creation, since there is no use of UES for creation, it would not scale to any physical statistics of Alice or any other character, the creation magic is just a magic creation specification which apparently is "say a few words and create" (without using any type of UES).

Ginkgo: In her hands, she held the very paper used to form our bodies. She whispered something into the pages... And then, suddenly, a paper frog was born, ready to leap into the world! Oh, it was spectacular!
Chestnut: Cut the theatrics, will you? You weren't even there...
Paimon: Wait, so... That's it? Paimon thought creation magic would have a little bit more... pizzazz.

 

[Furina003]

It has been explained in the previous CRT that elemental energy is UES, magic itself is still related to elemental energy.
You can see it here:
1. Gnosis is a vision that is said to be magic, which we know that gnosis and vision are to use elemental powers
2. A magic guidebook that discusses elemental energy
3. Mona, a student of Barbelot, uses elemental hydro to predict, this magic was taught directly by Barbeloth, the person who created the Imaginarium Theater and Simulanka.
4. Crimson Witch of Flames uses elemental pyro
5. Samachurls who cast magic to summon elemental energy and that is why they can use elemental power without vision.
As explained here, UES can be used to increase character stats including attack potency and durability, so if Alice is able to create a pocket dimension that has a starry sky, this will increase her attack potency.
Why is it possible to scale to Barbatos?
Alice is thedefender of Old Monstadt, Old Monstadt is Monstadt led by the decarabian storm god, which means Alice has a level below Decarabian and Decarabian was defeated by Barbatos in the fight. From this we can conclude that Barbatos is stronger than Alice because he was able to defeat Decarabian who is the leader of Old Monstadt.

you should read the comments again, why is it solid 4a. me and garrixian actually want to put them in likely 4a. but me found a feat where barbatos was able to defeat decarabian led a old mondstat and alice is the defender of old mondstadt which means barbatos is stronger than alice and decarabian

 

[Giannysmag]

It has been explained in the previous CRT that elemental energy is UES, magic itself is still related to elemental energy.
You can see it here:
1. Gnosis is a vision that is said to be magic, which we know that gnosis and vision are to use elemental powers
2. A magic guidebook that discusses elemental energy
3. Mona, a student of Barbelot, uses elemental hydro to predict, this magic was taught directly by Barbeloth, the person who created the Imaginarium Theater and Simulanka.
4. Crimson Witch of Flames uses elemental pyro
5. Samachurls who cast magic to summon elemental energy and that is why they can use elemental power without vision.

All elemental energy is magic but not all magic is elemental energy. All this is just evidence for the former

 

[Sahlwrld]

I would Agree for some characters like Shenhe, Xiao, Arlecchino, and other that below Archons level

When the 4-A got accepted, i thought it will be only Archons level like Dragon Sovereign, Top 3 Harbingers and Hexenzirkel, and i wasnt expected that almost all of them got scaled LOL.

Like why is Shenhe also 4-A?, and also Cyno?
Like they're not even Archons level, they just Adeptus Level at max.

Top 3 Harbingers was proven to be Archons level by Capitano himself

The main point of my Thought is that
only Archons Level, such as Dragon Sovereings, Hexenzirkel, Top 3 Harbingers, Skirk and Narwhal that Deserve the 4-A.

Harbingers like Arlecchino, Scaramouche and Childe is at most 6-B, as well as Adeptus Level.

 

[Furina003]

All elemental energy is magic but not all magic is elemental energy. All this is just evidence for the former

Magic is still related to elemental energy. even samachurl only uses chants to output elementals

 

[Dog3352]

It has been explained in the previous CRT that elemental energy is UES, magic itself is still related to elemental energy.

At what point is the creation magic used by Alice mentioned as elemental energy? I mean, I have one thing saying that it's not even possible to use elemental energy in Simulanka, and one saying that Alice's magic is basically "say a few words and creation comes", there's no evidence that "magic used by witches ( mainly creation) = elemental energy", the magic used by witches as far as we saw from Alice's creation magic is a hax, not an energy.

1. Gnosis is a vision that is said to be magic, which we know that gnosis and vision are to use elemental powers

"At what point is the creation magic used by Alice mentioned as elemental energy?"

2. A magic guidebook that discusses elemental energy

"At what point is the creation magic used by Alice mentioned as elemental energy?"

3. Mona, a student of Barbelot, uses elemental hydro to predict, this magic was taught directly by Barbeloth, the person who created the Imaginarium Theater and Simulanka.

This isn't even called magic, addition than it literally says clearly that it uses astrology.

4. Crimson Witch of Flames uses elemental pyro

Does this mean she has pyro vision, how does this correlate Alice's creation magic (hax) with elemental energy?

5. Samachurls who cast magic to summon elemental energy and that is why they can use elemental power without vision.

While not correlating with Alice's creation magic, Alice's creation magic is literally "speaking and creating", it is completely different from anything you will find with the name/mention of "magic".

As explained here, UES can be used to increase character stats including attack potency and durability, so if Alice is able to create a pocket dimension that has a starry sky, this will increase her attack potency.
Why is it possible to scale to Barbatos?

She creates a pocket dimension with magic/hax, not magic/energy, they are two different things.

 

[Giannysmag]

Magic is still related to elemental energy. even samachurl only uses chants to output elementals

Yes like I said elemental energy is magic based but not every form of magic is based on elements. This is why you can't scale the IT creation to elements, because it may have been done by magic but it wasn't done by elements

 

[ZENZUYA]

Im gonna research the whole imaginarium theater and the quest wait

Maybe i can found some elemental energy feats in that world

 

[Furina003]

At what point is the creation magic used by Alice mentioned as elemental energy? I mean, I have one thing saying that it's not even possible to use elemental energy in Simulanka, and one saying that Alice's magic is basically "say a few words and creation comes", there's no evidence that "magic used by witches ( mainly creation) = elemental energy", the magic used by witches as far as we saw from Alice's creation magic is a hax, not an energy.

they can't use vision because of the rules set by the 3 simulanka gods, so Alice says that it's not a coincidence but fate. did you forget that Wanderer can use Elemental there? That's because Wanderer is a hero who will save the world of Simulanka from the evil Durin.

the magic used by witches as far as we saw from Alice's creation magic is a hax, not an energy.

just hax? they create real space and have physical how you say this does not produce energy, even in the calculations here it clearly calculates energy.

"At what point is the creation magic used by Alice mentioned as elemental energy?"

"At what point is the creation magic used by Alice mentioned as elemental energy?"

This isn't even called magic, addition than it literally says clearly that it uses astrology.

Does this mean she has pyro vision, how does this correlate Alice's creation magic (hax) with elemental energy?

everything I provided was proof of the link between magic and elemental energy. they call it magic which means it is elemental energy.
Mona is Barbeloth's student and her magic was taught by Barbeloth, the goddess who created Simulanka. they still use elemental energy

the crimson witch never uses vision

 

[Dog3352]

The mistake is trying to correlate any mention of magic as elemental energy to Alice's magic.
Elemental energy is a UES, and is also often called magic, since well, it is a magical power/energy, but, that doesn't mean that anything named "magic" is elemental energy or uses elemental energy.

Alice's creation magic fits into the hax/spell/ability category when talking about magic.
Elemental energy fits into magical energy when it comes to magic.

 

[Weaver261]

Eh...would this do as all magic falls under category of Elemental energy?

As such, she does not have any reverence for her Vision, which the people of this world consider to be a sign of divine favor and the source of all power.

idk why i'm supporting 4-A lol

 

[Dog3352]

they can't use vision because of the rules set by the 3 simulanka gods, so Alice says that it's not a coincidence but fate. did you forget that Wanderer can use Elemental there? That's because Wanderer is a hero who will save the world of Simulanka from the evil Durin.

Alice's creation magic is literally "speaking and creating", does that sound like elemental energy manipulation to you?

just hax? they create real space and have physical how you say this does not produce energy, even in the calculations here it clearly calculates energy.

There is no mention/demonstration of UES being used = nothing scales.

everything I provided was proof of the link between magic and elemental energy. they call it magic which means it is elemental energy.
Mona is Barbeloth's student and her magic was taught by Barbeloth, the goddess who created Simulanka. they still use elemental energy

the crimson witch never uses vision

You are limiting the notion of magic, magic is not just energy (elemental energy) but also spells, runes, magic circles and others that do not use elemental energy.
She taught a way to use vision + astrology to predict attacks, this is not magic, just a combination of two things to make one.

When is this said? I don't know if you know, but the crimson beuxa is the signora, who always uses her vision.

 

[Saqphire]

Replying to this later, but there are alot of fallacious reasonings here, both in the OP and from the supporters of this CRT (and honestly an instant-downgrade like this should be falling under the 3-4 month rule in my opinion but whatever)

Eh...would this do as all magic falls under category of Elemental energy?

Can I get the source of this tho?

 

[Furina003]

The mistake is trying to correlate any mention of magic as elemental energy to Alice's magic.
Elemental energy is a UES, and is also often called magic, since well, it is a magical power/energy, but, that doesn't mean that anything named "magic" is elemental energy or uses elemental energy.

Alice's creation magic fits into the hax/spell/ability category when talking about magic.
Elemental energy fits into magical energy when it comes to magic.

Yes, magic is elemental energy, how do you know Alice doesn't use elementals? while the crimson witch and samachurl witch only use elemental energy?
Even entities that come from outside the Genshin world, such as those in the narwhal's body, still use elemental energy.

 

[Weaver261]

Can I get the source of this tho?

Nvm....magic != elemental energy. Magic can be learned while Elemental Energy can only be used when gods bestown upon you.

From this, it can be assumed she already learned magic and spearmanship by that point.

 

[Dog3352]

Yes, magic is elemental energy, how do you know Alice doesn't use elementals? while the crimson witch and samachurl witch only use elemental energy?
Even entities that come from outside the Genshin world, such as those in the narwhal's body, still use elemental energy.

I'm not the one who needs to prove that she doesn't use elemental energy to create the dimension, you who need to prove otherwise, since there is no mention/sign of such a thing, just her using a specific magic that creates things with words, this seems like manipulation of elemental energy? To me it looks like magic/"spell"/hax, not energy.
You know the crimson witch is Signora right? She uses her delusion.
Adepts don't use elemental energy to create their subspace, why does Alice use it to create a world even without having any evidence of it?

I mean, spells exist, so it's not weird to think of Alice's creation magic as a spell: "One of them uses a quill pen to cast her spells. She has a very special bottle that contains "fantasy truth."

"It is only when guests "believe" from the bottom of their hearts that it's all real that the doors to that special world open wide before them. When that happens, dear guest, you will understand that preforming is a game, but also a ceremony, and thus too does it posses the power of magic!"
^^^^^
Obviously it's not talking about elemental energy or even energy (it's more like a spell/skill), which makes it very obvious that magic isn't just elemental energy or energy.

 

[DivinumAeterna]

I agree with the downgrade and OP's reasoning - even discounting whether the Hexenzirkel witch actually created real stars in Imaginarium Theatre, scaling any character, archon or otherwise, to the level of a Hexenzirkel witch when there is no such thing as a complete ues in Genshin is just crazy. If you want 4-A, slap it on the future witches, but nobody else realistically deserves it.