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Genki Request: Sayaka Miki vs Captain MarvelousAQL

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That's....Exactly what I said though. And her not being all that skilled means going for a suicide move quicker

50% is an Incon for both, not a win for Marvy, while the other is Sayaka's win. Marvy doesn't win if it activates because she's still dead
 
If it activates Sayaka wouldn't really have time for her hit to put her to sleep.

I doubt they're going to hit each other in the exact same planck instant, one has to hit before the other, and since Sayaka would be going for a suicide attack exploiting her pain resistance it's more likely she'd be the last one to hit
 
I didn't say they would hit at the same time. I said it's who strikes first

That's not how a suicide attack works, a suicide attack is striking while putting yourself at high risk, Sayaka isn't going to tank a hit then strike, but if Marvy is going to hit her, she leaves a spot open for Sayaka to attack

Also, Paralysis doesn't automatically work just because it can hit non-corporals, so I can't see it working
 
Emphasis on "Exploiting her pain resistance". She would hit right after Marvy hit, or else she'd defend herself, taking also into account her swords being not too long, making it so that she doesn't have a long wind up time for her strikes, while Sayaka's are longer and slower.

Paralysis isn't working because it can affect non-corporeals, it's working because Sayaka doesn't resist that kind of paralysis, as the ones she resists are different status effect in HDN (Bind and Stun) from this paralysis
 
Actually, Sayaka's swords being shorter results in less wind up when striking as they are not as heavy or overwinded. And, again, she doesn't need to strike after she does, she simply needs to strike when she isn't defending, and if she is attacking, then she isn't.

If it's Blind and Stun I'm not seeing how that lets her kill her soul gem, especially when her fire can't beat her regen
 
Marvy's are the shorter ones, not Sayaka's

Sayaka gets paralyzed, then Marvy hits her several times, and even if she doesn't figure out she needs to hit the soul gem (which she actually might) she'd still hit it with her body wide attacks
 
Wait

So Sayaka has more reach instead of Marvy?

Oh dear, that's not helpful.

And what happens if she doesn't? Her attacks don't have AoE, she strikes at a very fast rate and her Fire doesn't reach
 
For someone that is trying to go for a suicide attack against a more skilled opponent while having a longer wind up time isn't helpful

Again, that's not only striking really fast, if you watch it slowly you'd notice that a single hit ignites the opponent

Sayaka would keep being paralyzed over and over, and all that use of her regen would taint her soul gem at a really fast rate. At worst she becomes a witch
 
Not really, having greater reach means the opponent has to rely more on defense as a result of the characters superior reach, especially win defeating an opponent with longer reach involves striking when they leave an opening

Are you sure the single "ignite" is the attack having an AoE and not an action mechanic signifying you have hit your opponent?

Becoming a witch is a win for Sayaka though
 
So it would help Marvy as it would make her go more on the defensive thus hitting Sayaka in a safer situation tho

Yes, as it's not something that happens with every attack, it's a characteristic of some of her basic combo attacks to have such elemental effects

I'm pretty sure we never counted that as a win for PMMM characters. I personally tried arguing it long ago.

Anyway it's 5 AM here, going to sleep now
 
It's a SUICIDE attack, that's the absolute worst thing to do.

That's not evidence they have AoE, that's a dramatization, otherwise literally every combo attack from servants would have AoE because of that in FGO https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IhlfyLazaxQ

<I'm pretty sure we never counted that as a win

Why? Because transforming into a witch disqualifies the character? Because that makes no sense.

And if that's the case, why did you even use it as an argument My saying "Using her regen makes her a witch"?
 
Genki saying Incon because it depends on if paralysis works due to Marv's superior skill

I'm saying Sayaka win because of her suicide attack tendency, fast enough acting regen, Mar not knowing where the Soul Gem is, and going against Sayaka turning into a witch being used as an argument against her
 
Well yeah, we do consider becoming a witch as a loss condition (dont know why, espically thanks to what was shown in Oriko and Rebellion), but its extremely unlikely she would become a witch mid battle.

But otherwise, yeah I think Sayaka would win too. Not only is her enemy's win condition a maybe, there is also the fact that Sayaka can actually remove atatus conditions anyways, so really seems unlikely it would even remain permanently (Ignoring the fact that Sayaka's regen is way too extreme, and that aoe is definitely not nearly enough.
 
The ****?!

That makes no goddamn sense

We say "Oh Sayaka can't turn into a witch" so she loses if she transforms and becomes stronger?

K but why?
 
Like

Yeah I get Sayaka transforming into a witch isn't allowed, though it's so unlikely to begin with it isn't even an argument

But if turning into a witch isn't allowed, don't allow her turn into a witch

Why is transforming a loss condition this time?

And hell, who said this was a loss condition?
 
Idk, I just heard it in the early days and it seems most people believe it
 
Whatever

It took literally days for Sayaka to corrupt her gem enough, so turning her into a witch is a nono
 
Gargoyle One said:
I personally think Sayaka takes the majority Mon top of the fact that Marvy has no means to incap, Sayaka only needs to strike her to force her asleep as she has no resistance, and Marvy is going to go through hell trying to strike a specific spot on Sayaka covered by incredibly fast acting Mid regen

Going Sayaka
Click to expand...
 
SomebodyData said:
But otherwise, yeah I think Sayaka would win too. Not only is her enemy's win condition a maybe, there is also the fact that Sayaka can actually remove atatus conditions anyways, so really seems unlikely it would even remain permanently (Ignoring the fact that Sayaka's regen is way too extreme, and that aoe is definitely not nearly enough.
Click to expand...
I don't think you actually did
 
Becoming a witch is a loss for the same reason why Moon=Millenniummon becoming Zeed after dying is a loss.

It's effectively a different character even if technically it's just another form
 
Moon becoming Zeed I get because the opponent can't prevent that

But the opponent constantly wailing at Sayaka and not hitting her soul gem is the opponents fault, not some inevitable "Lol you lose" after getting a victory

Of course Sayaka becoming a witch takes way too long to become I think
 
Btw you're underestimating the skill gap here

You're arguing that someone who has at best 1 month of experience, a good portion of which in a bloodlusted state, and has never fought another sword user is going to outskill someone who has been training for years in a ninja academy, is stated to have top notch fighting skills and is used to dirty tactics.

Also the point of the AoE attacks isn't beating her regen, but hitting the soul gem regardless of where she hits
 
Where did I underestimate the skill gap exactly?

Does she even have AoE to begin with? As I already stated the "AoE" is literally just an action trigger of when you hit your target, not an actual AoE unless you have more to prove that. Otherwise literally every Fate Servant has AoE because they do that in FGO

Also, this is rather irrelevant since it doesn't fix the skill gap, but Sayaka "Being bloodlusted" speaks more towards her then against it
 
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