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General DC Comics Discussion Thread

PromptedElephant641 said:
Eh I would not include that. The scan simply says "pierce the veil of the multiverse" and that is consistent with what we know about the infinite alternate multiverses contained within the Divine Continuum in the greater Orrery of Worlds:

"I suggested to Dan if you imagine like a champagne glass and you picture all these bubbles rising and giving form to each other, that's what the real multiverse looks like. It's a much bigger scale. It's infinite. These bubbles, there's so many of them out there that there's the Marvel multiverse and there's the DC multiverse and over there's the Archie multiverse. I figure it gives us a scope that every comics universe exists somewhere in there. But the DC Universe is the one we're familiar with - the Orrery of Worlds, as we've called it - and it's floating in this source with multiple multiverses."
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So the "highest vibration" source wall was of the local multiverse and not the greater bleed?
 
KirbyFan03 said:
So the "highest vibration" source wall was of the local multiverse and not the greater bleed?
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I do not believe that the quote / statement you are referring to is related to what I was discussing there with that Grant Morrison quote. I was pointing out that the realities accessed by the weakened in universe World Forger in DC KO were merely universes in alternate multiverses. There have always been at least an infinite number of alternate multiverses in the greater Orrery of Worlds. Even Wildstorm, one of these alternate multiverses, has infinite alternate versions of its own multiverse self contained with in its own cosmology. In all likelyhood there are likely at least an uncountably infinite number of alternate multiverses in the greater Orrery of Worlds.
 
PromptedElephant641 said:
I do not believe that the quote / statement you are referring to is related to what I was discussing there with that Grant Morrison quote. I was pointing out that the realities accessed by the weakened in universe World Forger in DC KO were merely universes in alternate multiverses. There have always been at least an infinite number of alternate multiverses in the greater Orrery of Worlds. Even Wildstorm, one of these alternate multiverses, has infinite alternate versions of its own multiverse self contained with in its own cosmology. In all likelyhood there are likely at least an uncountably infinite number of alternate multiverses in the greater Orrery of Worlds.
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So outer homelander lolololol
 
 
PromptedElephant641 said:
While we have spent a lot of time discussing the upper end cosmic tier beings:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PromptedElephant641/Revised_Superboy_Prime_Profile
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PromptedElephant641/Revised_Perpetua_Profile
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PromptedElephant641/Revised_Doctor_Manhattan_Profile
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PromptedElephant641/Revised_TBWL_/_TDK_Profile

The low tier cosmic beings are in pretty bad shape so here are some updates for a few of them:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PromptedElephant641/Revised_Time_Trapper_Profile
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PromptedElephant641/Revised_Parallax_Profile
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That's very good. The justifications just need to be shortened a bit, because right now they appears massive.
 
Elizio33 said:
That's very good. The justifications just need to be shortened a bit, because right now they appears massive.
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Maybe something in these formats, maybe a little longer, but that's all.

Perpetua

Tier: High 1-A | High 1-A, higher with Crisis Energy | High 1-A, higher with Preparation | At least High 1-A

Keys: Diminished State (Weakened) | Diminished State (Post Year of the Villain/Death Metal) | Descended Creator (Pre-Diminishment) | True State (Hand of the Source)

Attack Potency: High Outerverse level (Even in a weakened state, Perpetua vastly surpassed her three children individually, and dismissed the World Forger’s attempt to rewrite all existence from the Sixth Dimension as merely the actions of a fearful child. The technologies she had created to stabilize Hypertime were later used by Brainiac to bottle countless possible futures of Earth-0, with Hypertime being within her grasp during this period. Was capable of battling the Ultra-Monitor) High Outerverse level, higher with Crisis Energy (Recovered significantly more of her original power and reasserted control over the Multiverse. Her influence extended into the Sixth Dimension through the Crisis-aligned energies of The Totality, including forces such as the Anti-Life Equation, Chaos Magic, the Still Force, and the Ultraviolet Spectrum, which she used to fuel her power and systematically destroy and reshape creation. During this process, Hypertime and the Speed Force suffered severe collateral damage. Her battle with the Darkest Knight raged across all facets of reality and threatened to collapse the already dying Multiverse and the Bleed) High Outerverse level (Represents the apex of her descended existence prior to her imprisonment. Spent hundreds of thousands of years designing Apex Predators and accumulating the power necessary to wage war against her kind. In the process, she transformed her Multiverse into a predatory reality using Crisis Energy, perverting creation into a structure intended to perpetuate conflict eternally and consolidate her influence) At least High Outerverse level (As the Hand of Creation which Krona witnessed at the Dawn of Time, Perpetua is directly involved in the formation of the Multiverse, shaping its structure through the energies of The Totality conferred upon her by The Source, initiating the Big Bang in the process which gave rise to many fundamental aspects of existence, such as the Endless. Exists beyond and completely transcends the Divine Continuum as one of the Hands of the Source operating through The Void)

The Darkest Knight

Tier: High 1-A, higher with Crisis Energy

Attack Potency: High Outerverse level (Obtained the body of the Final Bruce Wayne, who possessed powers similar to those of Doctor Manhattan, whose existence was perceived by Perpetua as a significant disturbance. During his pursuit of the Speedsters, he was capable of interacting with and exerting pressure upon the Speed Force itself, exploiting fractures within its already damaged structure in order to corrupt its users), higher with Crisis Energy (Ascended into the ultimate dark god of the Multiverse, whose very existence caused the Multiverse to tremble, echoed across all realities, and even caused the lights of Hypertime to fade. Comparable to, if not slightly superior to, Post-Death Metal Perpetua, whom he was able to battle and affect across every facet of reality in a conflict that threatened the collapse of the already dying Multiverse and the Bleed itself. Superior to the Anti-Crisis empowered Wonder Woman, whom he fought across the Timestream, only being defeated after she struck him with the Hand of Creation at the Dawn of Time, generating a surge of Anti-Crisis Energy that restored the Multiverse’s connectivity, greatly empowering her while weakening his Crisis Energy)
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Antvasima said:
Which are your favourite DC Comics stories?

From the top of my head, mine are probably Kingdom Come, The New Frontier, The Nail, and The Long Halloween. 🙏
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I'd say my favorites in no particular order are: Final Crisis, Death Metal, Multiversity, Batman RIP, A Serious House On A Serious Earth, Blackest Knight, The Long Halloween, and the 2001 Spectre run from JM DeMattis.

Notice how most of my favorites are from Grant Morrison? Because I freaking love Grant Morrison.
 
Antvasima said:
I also liked Multiversity and Grant Morrison's JLA run. 🙏🙂❤️
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Multiversity is, as far as I'm concerned, one of the few multiverse centered stories that doesn't try to depict crap sack worlds where beloved heroes and other characters either horrifically die or are twisted versions of themselves, but is an attempt from Grant Morrison to explore universes with genuinely interesting differences. And even when Grant does show moments of darkness (the entirety of Earth-10 and that Earth-17 story), it's not obnoxiously edgy compared to if someone like Garth Ennis would've written it if that makes sense.
 
Antvasima said:
Which are your favourite DC Comics stories?

From the top of my head, mine are probably Kingdom Come, The New Frontier, The Nail, and The Long Halloween. 🙏🙂❤️
Click to expand...
The Nail and Another Nail are massively underrated Elseworlds storylines that do not get nearly the same exposure as more popular alternate universe stories like Kingdom Come. Hypertime universe 898 in general deserves more attention from DC.
 
PromptedElephant641 said:
The Nail and Another Nail are massively underrated Elseworlds storylines that do not get nearly the same exposure as more popular alternate universe stories like Kingdom Come. Hypertime universe 898 in general deserves more attention from DC.
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Yes, agreed. I hope that Alan Davis is willing to do another continuation series. 🙏
 
Multiversity Pax Americana definitely deserved its own continued series beyond just one issue. If not for the story, then for its fantastic artwork. Apparently Grant Morrison had plans for an entire series continuing Pax Americana; however, Frank Quitely, the artist, did not want to dedicate all of his effort towards what he perceived to be an unpopular group of superheroes which is a shame and a big loss for DC enthusiasts and comic fans in general.

I wouldn’t mind if it took him a decade or more to publish the series. Planetary Volume 1, another comic with great art especially when compared to the other comics of the 90s and early 2000s, was only 27 issues long but took from 1999 to 2009 to be completed at the creator’s pace.

Overall I think DC’s art style was at its peak from around 2006/2007 to the end of Post-Crisis continuity in 2011 after which it was obliterated by the Flashpoint reboot.
 
The Multiversity was an incredible story, I absolutely loved it. I also enjoyed the Metal Saga, but without its tie-in issues, it feels a bit empty. The events are entertaining, sure, but they often feel like grand adventures where ever-more-powerful baddies trigger ever-more-colossal crises, only for the heroes to triumph thanks to a last-minute deus ex machina. Everything is always bigger, grander, more cosmic, but it sometimes lacks the depth and substance that made The Multiversity so captivating for me. By the way, Empty Hand is one of the greatest villains in my opinion, it's really a shame they butchered him in Justice League Incarnate with the idea of the fake Great Darkness and Pariah.
 
In terms of pure disappointment at the quality of a comic book / series / event then yeah it is also Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths. Even the title is cringe. DC already had a massive revamp at the end of Death Metal only 2 years prior so it was totally unneeded to have such an event. Even if they had waited another decade between large scale crisis events, it still would not have been good. All in all it was completely pointless and had no impact. They tried to shoehorn in that the infinite universes had returned but this had already been done (officially) 3 times. First in the Multiversity, second in Convergence, and then in Death Metal so the revelation that the infinite worlds had returned was redundant. Though I guess you could make the argument that Multiverse-2, the real Pre-Crisis Multiverse, was officially restored and incorporated into the greater Orrery of Worlds, yet even this was already done by Convergence. A while back I posted 156 statements of there being infinite universes stretching from Pre-Crisis continuity to the present (it is now up to 166) so I don’t know why DC keeps bringing this up as if they are going it for the first time.

The event also diminished the role of the Empty Hand starting in Infinite Frontier and Justice League Incarnate which are a prelude to Dark Crisis. Unfortunately, The Empty Hand had already been bastardized even before this. A few pages back I posted out how in The Multiversity Guidebook it is explicitly stated that The Empty Hand caused the Flashpoint event. It would later be changed such that Doctor Manhattan was responsible instead. It is also made clear in the same comic issue that The Empty Hand is an opponent of The Source itself mocking the New Gods by taking the form of the flaming hand of the source to inscribe the words “I Found You”. It is a shame that we will never get to see Grant Morrison’s vision carried out.
 
PromptedElephant641 said:
In terms of pure disappointment at the quality of a comic book / series / event then yeah it is also Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths. Even the title is cringe. DC already had a massive revamp at the end of Death Metal only 2 years prior so it was totally unneeded to have such an event. Even if they had waited another decade between large scale crisis events, it still would not have been good. All in all it was completely pointless and had no impact. They tried to shoehorn in that the infinite universes had returned but this had already been done (officially) 3 times. First in the Multiversity, second in Convergence, and then in Death Metal so the revelation that the infinite worlds had returned was redundant. Though I guess you could make the argument that Multiverse-2, the real Pre-Crisis Multiverse, was officially restored and incorporated into the greater Orrery of Worlds, yet even this was already done by Convergence. A while back I posted 156 statements of there being infinite universes stretching from Pre-Crisis continuity to the present (it is now up to 166) so I don’t know why DC keeps bringing this up as if they are going it for the first time.

The event also diminished the role of the Empty Hand starting in Infinite Frontier and Justice League Incarnate which are a prelude to Dark Crisis. Unfortunately, The Empty Hand had already been bastardized even before this. A few pages back I posted out how in The Multiversity Guidebook it is explicitly stated that The Empty Hand caused the Flashpoint event. It is also made clear in the same comic issue that The Empty Hand is an opponent of The Source itself mocking the New Gods by taking the form of the flaming hand of the source to inscribe the words “I Found You”. It is a shame that we will never get to see Grant Morrison’s vision carried out.
Click to expand...
Okay, Dark Crisis was poorly executed. The event was so promising, as it presented ideas like the Infinite Frontier Multiverse, the Totality (the Team), the return of Darkseid and as a major threat, and the awakening of the Great Darkness. Unfortunately, most of these ideas were abandoned during the event.
 
There was definitely potential shown in Infinite Frontier and Justice League Incarnate with Darkseid returning greater then ever before having reconstituted all of his versions. It is strange how pretty much the same story is being told again with Absolute Darkseid (they are both supposed to be the ultimate incarnation of Darkseid). It is so similar in fact that Infinite Frontier Darkseid inhabited Earth Omega while Absolute Darkseid inhabited Earth-Alpha (The Elseworld / Absolute Universe) these universe are the twin centers and opposites of the post Death Metal Creation. I think it is likely that they realized that there were some good ideas in Infinite Frontier that they sabotaged with Dark Crisis so now they are just redoing the same idea without it being subverted this time.
 
Planning to make hellbat 2A cuz some of his already accepted feats are from rebirth era and not new 52

Lois breaking eradicators grip with hellbat armor (superman 2016 issue 5 , the cover of this comic literally says rebirth🥀🗿 how the hell was this treated as new 52 stuff?)





Hellgos fighting someone superior to rebirth etrigan (detective comics 2016 issue 998)
 
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