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General DC Comics Discussion Thread

Here's a brief suggestion for editing our DC Cosmology blog following the merger. Please note that these are simply my thoughts, based on a combination of elements from the Crisis, Vertigo, and DeMatteis cosmologies. They are by no means face values.

1. Material Realms

  • Physical reality: contains the Orrery of Worlds, the Bleed, all universes, branching realities, and separate Multiverses.
  • Tier: Low 1‑A (Totality of the Material Realms)
  • Notes: The Bleed itself is High 1‑C for being 11-D and any feats of destruction of universes in the Orrery would vary depending on the context or era, ranging from 2-C to 2-A. Feats of destroying a single universe vary from 3-A to Low 2-C depending on whether the entire space-time structure is involved or not. The full Material Realms scales to Low 1‑A for having places beyond space-time. As the debased Gross Plane, a ‘dream within a dream, it encompasses all simplest layers of Creation’s Dream. Its infinite potential and scope justify a Low 1‑A rating.

2. Metaphysical Realms

Archetypal realms: contains the Sphere of the Gods, Comic Book Limbo, the Monitor Sphere, the Dark Multiverse. Their inhabitants typically exist as living ideas or thoughts and their realms are often considered as fictions or archetypal and platonic. Even the universes in the Dark Multiverse are sometimes referred as nightmares or unrealities.
  • Tier: High 1-A (Highest parts of the Metaphysical Realms)
  • Note: The Sphere of the Gods is 1-A for existing on a higher level of existence than the Material Realms. Comic Book Limbo is possibly High 1-A for having R>F over the Multiverse and the Sphere of the Gods and is where the Writter live. Realms like the Monitor Sphere, the Dark Multiverse, the Fifth Dimension, and the Sixth Dimension are High 1-A.

3. Source Wall and the Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum

  • Totality of space and time across creation; includes Omniverse (space) and Hypertime (time)
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Contains the Multiverse, the Sphere of the Gods, the Dark Multiverse, infinite webs of Multiverses, Limbo, and the Vanishing Point; likely contains the Monitor Sphere and the Sixth Dimension as apex layers of Creation.

4. Greater Omniverse/Infinite/Place Beyond All Places

  • Void before Creation; higher agents of The Source operate here.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Higher realms beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall, where many agents of The Source live and create or maintain infinite Creations across the Void. It is also where creation parasites or beings originating from past versions of Creation exist.

4a. Endless
  • Embodiments of universal archetypes (Death, Dream, Desire, etc.); localized in the Sphere of the Gods and born from the Big Bang, yet their influence extends across all Creations in the Greater Omniverse.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Conceptual constants with omniversal influence, independent of any single Creation or Creator.

4b. Forces of Creation (Honorable Mention)
  • Fundamental aspects or energies of existence that shape and sustain reality, including the Speed Force, the Emotional Spectrum, Magic, and many others.
  • Often depicted as anchored to the Multiverse, but conceptually extend across all Creations in the Greater Omniverse, like the Endless, independent of any single Creation or Creator.
  • Wielded by various agents of The Source, such as the Hands, to shape Multiverses across the Void.
  • Form poles of power: positive/connective forces (Anti-Crisis Energy) and chaotic/predatory forces (Crisis Energy). The Alpha and Omega Effects, the primal twins deriving from The Source, power all Anti-Crisis and Crisis forces at their core.
  • Notes: Not all the forces scales the same; therefore, any feats of destruction or interaction with these forces must be approached with great caution and will vary depending on the context.

5. Light of Creation/Deep Change/Source’s Manifest Form
  • Manifest form of the Source/Presence/Overvoid.
  • Fundamental principle underpinning all existence; source of Speed, Still, Sage, Strength forces. All of existence enamates from it as a dream.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Mathematical principles that created and sustain all existence.

6. Primordial Void (Pralaya/Mother Night/Great Darkness)
  • Pre-creational nothingness; conceptual antithesis of the Light and Creation.
  • Precedes the Multiverse and the Light of Creation.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Same entity under different interpretations, but possessing their own identities and characteristics.

7. Source/Presence/Overvoid = God
  • Ultimate origin of all existence; God
  • Tier: 0 (Boundless)
  • Notes: Without beginning or end, immutable, indivisible, beyond all creation, duality, and hierarchy. Absolute origin of all things, beyond the Light of Creation and the Great Darkness.
I have changed the 1-A rating for the Material Realms to Low 1-A instead. This also includes locations beyond space-time, in addition to encompassing all the simplest levels of the Dream of Creation and having limitless potential and possibility. I also added a new section about the forces of creation, just for fun. :)
 
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Here's a brief suggestion for editing our DC Cosmology blog following the merger. Please note that these are simply my thoughts, based on a combination of elements from the Crisis, Vertigo, and DeMatteis cosmologies. They are by no means face values.

1. Material Realms

  • Physical reality: contains the Orrery of Worlds, the Bleed, all universes, branching realities, and separate Multiverses.
  • Tier: Low 1‑A (Totality of the Material Realms)
  • Notes: The Bleed itself is High 1‑C for being 11-D and any feats of destruction of universes in the Orrery would vary depending on the context or era, ranging from 2-C to 2-A. The full Material Realms scales to Low 1‑A. As the debased Gross Plane, a ‘dream within a dream, it represents the simplest layer of creation’s dream. Its infinite potential and scope justify a Low 1‑A rating.

2. Metaphysical Realms

Archetypal realms: contains the Sphere of the Gods, Comic Book Limbo, the Monitor Sphere, the Dark Multiverse. Their inhabitants typically exist as living ideas or thoughts and their realms are often considered as fictions or archetypal and platonic. Even the universes in the Dark Multiverse are sometimes referred as nightmares or unrealities.
  • Tier: High 1-A (Highest parts of the Metaphysical Realms)
  • Note: The Sphere of the Gods is 1-A for existing on a higher level of existence than the Material Realms. Comic Book Limbo is possibly High 1-A for having R>F over the Multiverse and the Sphere of the Gods and is where the Writter live. Realms like the Monitor Sphere, the Dark Multiverse, the Fifth Dimension, and the Sixth Dimension are High 1-A.

3. Source Wall and the Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum

  • Totality of space and time across creation; includes Omniverse (space) and Hypertime (time)
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Contains the Multiverse, the Sphere of the Gods, the Dark Multiverse, infinite webs of Multiverses, Limbo, and the Vanishing Point; likely contains the Monitor Sphere and the Sixth Dimension as apex layers of Creation.

4. Greater Omniverse/Infinite/Place Beyond All Places

  • Void before Creation; higher agents of The Source operate here.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Higher realms beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall, where many agents of The Source live and create or maintain infinite Creations across the Void. It is also where creation parasites or beings originating from past versions of Creation exist.

4a. Endless
  • Embodiments of universal archetypes (Death, Dream, Desire, etc.); localized in the Sphere of the Gods and born from the Big Bang, yet their influence extends across all Creations in the Greater Omniverse.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Conceptual constants with omniversal influence, independent of any single Creation or Creators.

5. Light of Creation/Deep Change/Source’s Manifest Form
  • Manifest form of the Source/Presence/Overvoid.
  • Fundamental principle underpinning all existence; source of Speed, Still, Sage, Strength forces. All of existence enamates from it as a dream.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Mathematical principles that created and sustain all existence.

6. Primordial Void (Pralaya/Mother Night/Great Darkness)
  • Pre-creational nothingness; conceptual antithesis of the Light and Creation.
  • Precedes the Multiverse and the Light of Creation.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Same entity under different interpretations, but possessing their own identities and characteristics.

7. Source/Presence/Overvoid = God
  • Ultimate origin of all existence; God
  • Tier: 0 (Absolute)
  • Notes: Without beginning or end, immutable, indivisible, beyond all creation, duality, and hierarchy. Absolute origin of all things, beyond the Light of Creation and the Great Darkness.
Bleed might be L1-A. Morrison’s Doom Patrol in vol 2 #53 has an “all possible dimensions” statement relating to an alt universe’s source wall.
 
Hierarchy:

Source/Presence/Overvoid > Light of Creation & Great Darkness > Michael Demiurgos ≈ Lucifer Morningstar > Endless ≥ Hands > Perpetua > Monitor, Anti-Monitor, World Forger > Mandrakk > Monitors > Mister Mxyzptlk & Bat-Mite > Quintessence (Highfather, Ganthet, Phantom Stranger, Zeus, Wizard, Spectre) ≥ New Gods > Lords Chaos and Order > Angels and Demon Lords > Elementals > Regular Heroes and Sorcerers

Note that the pre-creational state of the Great Darkness would upscale the Light of Creation given that Pralaya could devour an aspect of God and return most of Creation in total non-existence. Also note that these are just my thoughts and opinions, they are by no means facts. ;)
 
Hierarchy:

Source/Presence/Overvoid > Light of Creation & Great Darkness > Michael Demiurgos ≈ Lucifer Morningstar > Endless ≥ Hands > Perpetua > Monitor, Anti-Monitor, World Forger > Mandrakk > Monitors > Mister Mxyzptlk & Bat-Mite > Quintessence (Highfather, Ganthet, Phantom Stranger, Zeus, Wizard, Spectre) ≥ New Gods > Lords Chaos and Order > Angels and Demon Lords > Elementals > Regular Heroes and Sorcerers

Note that the pre-creational state of the Great Darkness would upscale the Light of Creation given that Pralaya could devour an aspect of God and return most of Creation in total non-existence. Also note that these are just my thoughts and opinions, they are by no means facts. ;)
Where’s Wally, he isn’t a normal superhero and he isn’t any of the other stuff you mentioned

It looks good
 
Here are the reasons, taken directly from the blog:

There are infinite universes and parallel dimensions, each decision forms new universes all the time. The material plane is just the debased level of Creation called the Gross Plane. Everything in Creation is a result of a dream in a dream. The material plane encompasses all the simplest levels driven by the five senses. Due to its relation to being just a dream in the higher planes, it would warrant a 1-A rating, and because there's limitless potential and possibility. Its hierarchical positing pivots a hierarchy of R>F transcendence thus the “+” modifier can be used. So any Multiversal feat of any degree affecting the material plane is 1-A and total destruction is 1-A+.
I heavily disagree with this capping at Low 1-A, hence it contradicts standards Ultima built. Reality Fiction Transcendence is indeed Q.S unless it is proven otherwise(anti-feats or whatever). You could technically remove universes being dream within dream scans and it wouldn't matter that much for Low 1-A scaling, hence Low 1-A comes from Totality of the Material Plan. Xearesay told me he has own plans for this later with better justifications but I don't see how that should be decreased to Low 1-A if it contradicts our standards. Just removing this scans would make technically better whereas if Xearesay has plans for it he can come up with it later.
Here's a brief suggestion for editing our DC Cosmology blog following the merger. Please note that these are simply my thoughts, based on a combination of elements from the Crisis, Vertigo, and DeMatteis cosmologies. They are by no means face values.

1. Material Realms

  • Physical reality: contains the Orrery of Worlds, the Bleed, all universes, branching realities, and separate Multiverses.
  • Tier: Low 1‑A (Totality of the Material Realms)
  • Notes: The Bleed itself is High 1‑C for being 11-D and any feats of destruction of universes in the Orrery would vary depending on the context or era, ranging from 2-C to 2-A. The full Material Realms scales to Low 1‑A. As the debased Gross Plane, a ‘dream within a dream, it represents the simplest layer of creation’s dream. Its infinite potential and scope justify a Low 1‑A rating.

2. Metaphysical Realms

Archetypal realms: contains the Sphere of the Gods, Comic Book Limbo, the Monitor Sphere, the Dark Multiverse. Their inhabitants typically exist as living ideas or thoughts and their realms are often considered as fictions or archetypal and platonic. Even the universes in the Dark Multiverse are sometimes referred as nightmares or unrealities.
  • Tier: High 1-A (Highest parts of the Metaphysical Realms)
  • Note: The Sphere of the Gods is 1-A for existing on a higher level of existence than the Material Realms. Comic Book Limbo is possibly High 1-A for having R>F over the Multiverse and the Sphere of the Gods and is where the Writter live. Realms like the Monitor Sphere, the Dark Multiverse, the Fifth Dimension, and the Sixth Dimension are High 1-A.

3. Source Wall and the Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum

  • Totality of space and time across creation; includes Omniverse (space) and Hypertime (time)
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Contains the Multiverse, the Sphere of the Gods, the Dark Multiverse, infinite webs of Multiverses, Limbo, and the Vanishing Point; likely contains the Monitor Sphere and the Sixth Dimension as apex layers of Creation.

4. Greater Omniverse/Infinite/Place Beyond All Places

  • Void before Creation; higher agents of The Source operate here.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Higher realms beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall, where many agents of The Source live and create or maintain infinite Creations across the Void. It is also where creation parasites or beings originating from past versions of Creation exist.

4a. Endless
  • Embodiments of universal archetypes (Death, Dream, Desire, etc.); localized in the Sphere of the Gods and born from the Big Bang, yet their influence extends across all Creations in the Greater Omniverse.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Conceptual constants with omniversal influence, independent of any single Creation or Creators.

5. Light of Creation/Deep Change/Source’s Manifest Form
  • Manifest form of the Source/Presence/Overvoid.
  • Fundamental principle underpinning all existence; source of Speed, Still, Sage, Strength forces. All of existence enamates from it as a dream.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Mathematical principles that created and sustain all existence.

6. Primordial Void (Pralaya/Mother Night/Great Darkness)
  • Pre-creational nothingness; conceptual antithesis of the Light and Creation.
  • Precedes the Multiverse and the Light of Creation.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Same entity under different interpretations, but possessing their own identities and characteristics.

7. Source/Presence/Overvoid = God
  • Ultimate origin of all existence; God
  • Tier: 0 (Absolute)
  • Notes: Without beginning or end, immutable, indivisible, beyond all creation, duality, and hierarchy. Absolute origin of all things, beyond the Light of Creation and the Great Darkness.
That's very good structure indeed which I agree(except as my own doubts and opinion dream within dream universes should be removed it makes Material World Baseline Low 1-A). Do you want to make blog about it? If yes do you want help or something? . I can see where possibly H1-A comes if Limbo has R > F over SoG. That's good suggestion indeed
 
I heavily disagree with this capping at Low 1-A, hence it contradicts standards Ultima built. Reality Fiction Transcendence is indeed Q.S unless it is proven otherwise(anti-feats or whatever). You could technically remove universes being dream within dream scans and it wouldn't matter that much for Low 1-A scaling, hence Low 1-A comes from Totality of the Material Plan. Xearesay told me he has own plans for this later with better justifications but I don't see how that should be decreased to Low 1-A if it contradicts our standards. Just removing this scans would make technically better whereas if Xearesay has plans for it he can come up with it later.

That's very good structure indeed which I agree(except as my own doubts and opinion dream within dream universes should be removed it makes Material World Baseline Low 1-A). Do you want to make blog about it? If yes do you want help or something? . I can see where possibly H1-A comes if Limbo has R > F over SoG. That's good suggestion indeed
Yeah. I agree the Bleed has statements of transdimensional and holds together all levels of reality which might suggests a possible Low 1-A rating since one statement of transcending or encompassing dimensions is enough for this tier according to the explanation of the Tiering System page. In any case, the dream within the dream was more in line with DeMatteis' cosmology and, although consistent with the general cosmology, it should not necessarily be used to strengthen the Material Realms rating, but the Bleed has some interesting claims justifying the Low 1-A rating.
 
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Yeah. I agree the Bleed has statements of transdimensional and holds together all levels of reality which might suggests a possible Low 1-A rating since one statement of transcending or encompassing is enough for this tier according to the explanation of the Tiering System page.
That but I was talking about this accepted scaling also:

Totality of the Material Plane - Low 1-A: At the very edge of the Cosmos lies limitless time and space. Which itself contains all the levels represented by the hierarchies of the world in the plicate order which are emanated from the higher worlds of the Implicate

You could add Bleed scans to it, makes Low 1-A justification better.
 
That but I was talking about this accepted scaling also:

Totality of the Material Plane - Low 1-A: At the very edge of the Cosmos lies limitless time and space. Which itself contains all the levels represented by the hierarchies of the world in the plicate order which are emanated from the higher worlds of the Implicate

You could add Bleed scans to it, makes Low 1-A justification better.
Yes. That could work. However, i don't think the Orrery needs to be scaled from the Bleed, as it's not contained within its structure, contrary to what the Multiverse Map, which is outdated and simplified from a cosmological perspective, suggested. The Bleed would contain all universes, multiverses beyond the local one, and dimensions. The Orrery is the local multiverse and contain from fifty-two to an infinite number of universes, depending on the era, with descriptions ranging from eight to twenty-six dimensions. However, it is difficult to determine whether all these dimensions are contained within the Orrery; the most cautious interpretation would therefore be to consider the Orrery as High 1-C (11D).
 
Yes. That could work. However, i don't think the Orrery needs to be scaled from the Bleed, as it's not contained within its structure, contrary to what the Multiverse Map, which is outdated and simplified from a cosmological perspective, suggested. The Bleed would contain all universes, multiverses beyond the local one, and dimensions. The Orrery is the local multiverse and contain from fifty-two to an infinite number of universes, depending on the era, with descriptions ranging from eight to twenty-six dimensions. However, it is difficult to determine whether all these dimensions are contained within the Orrery; the most cautious interpretation would therefore be to consider the Orrery as High 1-C (11D).
indeed but right now as I see Orrery isn't scaled from Bleed. Hence I am just copy pasting cosmology blog which was accepted in VSBW

  • Orrery of Worlds - High 1-C: The multiversal superstructure of fifty-two brane universes with eleven dimensions based on M-Theory and Brane Cosmology of which four dimensions constitute any single universe within the 11-D "Bulk" or "Bleed". It's possible that the Orrery of Worlds is not limited to eleven dimensions and that there may be higher dimensions, but since their locations in the cosmology have not been decided, it is difficult to locate them correctly.
    • Plicate and Implicate Order - High 1-B: The interconnection of the universes are pieces that contain the whole. In a series of recessions of worlds being beyond the previous as seen as “dreams” within a larger dream that stretches endlessly.
      • Totality of the Material Plane - Low 1-A: At the very edge of the Cosmos lies limitless time and space. Which itself contains all the levels represented by the hierarchies of the world in the plicate order which are emanated from the higher worlds of the Implicate.
As you see Orrery seems like to be High 1-C indeed
 
indeed but right now as I see Orrery isn't scaled from Bleed. Hence I am just copy pasting cosmology blog which was accepted in VSBW

  • Orrery of Worlds - High 1-C: The multiversal superstructure of fifty-two brane universes with eleven dimensions based on M-Theory and Brane Cosmology of which four dimensions constitute any single universe within the 11-D "Bulk" or "Bleed". It's possible that the Orrery of Worlds is not limited to eleven dimensions and that there may be higher dimensions, but since their locations in the cosmology have not been decided, it is difficult to locate them correctly.
    • Plicate and Implicate Order - High 1-B: The interconnection of the universes are pieces that contain the whole. In a series of recessions of worlds being beyond the previous as seen as “dreams” within a larger dream that stretches endlessly.
      • Totality of the Material Plane - Low 1-A: At the very edge of the Cosmos lies limitless time and space. Which itself contains all the levels represented by the hierarchies of the world in the plicate order which are emanated from the higher worlds of the Implicate.
As you see Orrery seems like to be High 1-C indeed
Yes, but the Bleed is also rating as High 1-C currently.
 
Updated cosmology suggestion
Here's a brief suggestion for editing our DC Cosmology blog following the merger. Please note that these are simply my thoughts, based on a combination of elements from the Crisis, Vertigo, and DeMatteis cosmologies. They are by no means face values.

1. Material Realms

Physical reality: contains the Orrery of Worlds, the Bleed, all universes, branching realities, and separate Multiverses.
  • Tier: Low 1-A (Bleed and the Totality of the Material Realms)
  • Notes: The Bleed is Low 1‑A, as it contains all levels of reality and serves as the transdimensional medium between universes and Multiverses. The Orrery is High 1‑C, reflecting its containment of multiple dimensions (often cited as eight or eleven) and feats of destroying universes within the Orrery vary depending on context and era, ranging from 2-C to 2-A. The Totality of the Material Realms scales to Low 1‑A, due to its limitless time and space at the edge of the cosmos and its inclusion of all levels of existence emanated from the higher planes of the Implicate Order.

2. Metaphysical Realms

Archetypal realms: contains the Sphere of the Gods, Comic Book Limbo, the Monitor Sphere, the Dark Multiverse. Their inhabitants typically exist as living ideas or thoughts and their realms are often considered as fictions or archetypal and platonic. Even the universes in the Dark Multiverse are sometimes referred as nightmares or unrealities.
  • Tier: High 1-A (Highest parts of the Metaphysical Realms)
  • Note: The Sphere of the Gods is 1-A for existing on a higher level of existence than the Material Realms. Comic Book Limbo is possibly High 1-A for having R>F over the Orrery of Worlds and the Sphere of the Gods and is where the Writter live. Realms like the Monitor Sphere, the Dark Multiverse, the Fifth Dimension, and the Sixth Dimension are High 1-A via quantitative superiority over Limbo.

3. Source Wall and the Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum

Totality of the DC Universe: contains all physical and metaphysical domains and dimensions cited above. The Source Wall is its final barrier.

  • Totality of space and time across creation; includes Omniverse (space) and Hypertime (time)
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Contains the Multiverse, the Sphere of the Gods, the Dark Multiverse, infinite webs of Multiverses, Limbo, and the Vanishing Point; likely contains the Monitor Sphere and the Sixth Dimension as apex layers of Creation.

4. Greater Omniverse/Infinite/Place Beyond All Places

Outer Realms: contains all Creations shaped by various creators and agents of The Source, such the Hands, across the Void. Beings or entities living there are beyond comprehension and typically occupy a hierarchical position superior to that of all the inhabitants of the Multiverse.

  • Void before Creation; higher agents of The Source operate here.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Higher realms beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall, where many agents of The Source live and create or maintain infinite Creations across the Void. It is also where creation parasites or beings originating from past versions of Creation exist.

4a. Endless
  • Embodiments of universal archetypes (Death, Dream, Desire, etc.); localized in the Sphere of the Gods and born from the Big Bang, yet their influence extends across all Creations in the Greater Omniverse.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Conceptual constants with omniversal influence, independent of any single Creation or Creator.

4b. Forces of Creation (Honorable Mention)
  • Fundamental aspects or energies of existence that shape and sustain reality, including the Speed Force, the Emotional Spectrum, Magic, and many others.
  • Often depicted as anchored to the Multiverse, but conceptually extend across all Creations in the Greater Omniverse, like the Endless, independent of any single Creation or Creator.
  • Wielded by various agents of The Source, such as the Hands, to shape Multiverses across the Void.
  • Form poles of power: positive/connective forces (Anti-Crisis Energy) and chaotic/predatory forces (Crisis Energy). The Alpha and Omega Effects, the primal twins deriving from The Source, power all Anti-Crisis and Crisis forces at their core.
  • Notes: Not all the forces scales the same; therefore, any feats of destruction or interaction with these forces must be approached with great caution and will vary depending on the context.

5. Light of Creation/Deep Change/Source’s Manifest Form

Manifest form of the Source/Presence/Overvoid: Fundamental creative principle underpinning all existence.
  • Fundamental principle underpinning all existence; source of Speed, Still, Sage, Strength forces. All of existence enamates from it as a dream.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Mathematical principles that created and sustain all existence.

6. Primordial Void (Pralaya/Mother Night/Great Darkness)

Primordial Darkness: Total darkness and absence of light and creation.
  • Pre-creational nothingness; conceptual antithesis of the Light and Creation.
  • Precedes the Multiverse and the Light of Creation.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Same entity under different interpretations, but possessing their own identities and characteristics.

7. Source/Presence/Overvoid

God: Absolute ground of reality from all existence originates.
  • Ultimate origin of all existence; God
  • Tier: 0 (Boundless)
  • Notes: Without beginning or end, immutable, indivisible, beyond all creation, duality, and hierarchy. Absolute origin of all things, beyond the Light of Creation and the Great Darkness.
 
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Hmmmmm... I'm typically a dumbass but for the devilance stuff I'm doing id need to do a calc for a direct speed feat (scalings OK but direct speeds better imo)
 
IMG-20260312-231551.jpg

Ig that can be some extra addition for PP1
 
^ writers trying to make a hodge podge soup of decades of different authors
Instead of expanding on DCs higher levels of cosmology. Btw Morrisons map is long outdated lol, more layers to the godsphere and the bleed has some fresh funky stuff
 
Simple is best imo

High Outer Limbo (R>F)> Outer SoG (beyond numbers and transcends L 1-A bleed)
I meant different thing. When you don't write layers in general it makes things more fun.

DMC profiles didn't write hax layers(though they have 45 layers of everything), Umineko didn't clarify layers of High 1-A and 1-A(Though 2 layers in H1-A)

Technically under now you have 1-A+ + 1 Layer structures in DC but writing layers make things boring. I remember DT telling "not thinking about layers makes you research on your own and debate better"
 
I meant different thing. When you don't write layers in general it makes things more fun.

DMC profiles didn't write hax layers(though they have 45 layers of everything), Umineko didn't clarify layers of High 1-A and 1-A(Though 2 layers in H1-A)

Technically under now you have 1-A+ + 1 Layer structures in DC but writing layers make things boring. I remember DT telling "not thinking about layers makes you research on your own and debate better"
Aaah ye. Also less of a headache
 
Updated cosmology suggestion
The totality of the material plane including the explicate order should be 1A+ as it features the universes as mere dreams or hallucinations in continuous unfolding. That was in animal man. The gross plane as well cannot be low 1A.
 
The totality of the material plane including the explicate order should be 1A+ as it features the universes as mere dreams or hallucinations in continuous unfolding. That was in animal man. The gross plane as well cannot be low 1A.
We already discussed that and decided to remove this thing due to Ant's doubts for Material Plane. If anything Xearesey told me he has plans for future
 
We already discussed that and decided to remove this thing due to Ant's doubts for Material Plane. If anything Xearesey told me he has plans for future
I think Xearsay may come to the same conclusion. And a reason why l did not like the merge is because the scaling may damage the integrity of the other cosmologies we are merging. Read any Dematteis story and read his description about the gross plane you will not get low 1A. The gross plane itself is just a dream it is hence not "real" in the way we think and its the lowest dream from the higher planes. Akin to an emanation.
 
We should move slowly with the new scaling accounting we have not discussed the emanative aspect of creation introduced in the flash. We have not also discussed some metaphysical realms in doom patrol such as the mesh and kaleidoscope; the implicate order is another big thing and may redefine how we look at DC.
 
We should move slowly with the new scaling accounting we have not discussed the emanative aspect of creation introduced in the flash. We have not also discussed some metaphysical realms in doom patrol such as the mesh and kaleidoscope; the implicate order is another big thing and may redefine how we look at DC.
but the most important question is if the writers care?
 
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