General DC Comics Discussion Thread

[Hecky2222]

Sorry to be the contrarian but this merger will actually make the cosmology very robust and will need to very large extrapolation of stats, good for DC fans but of course many may disagree of pure vibes. E.g In this case New Gods being High 1A is guaranteed.

in that case you have to prove SoG being High 1A i think. Goofy args were rejected iirc dont know what else can be arg for SoG. Although if you can make SoG High 1A i guess everything else would be endless layers into baseline and one meta.

 

[Hecky2222]

The Void (Vertigo)

The Void is a timeless realm outside Creation where different Creations with different Creator exist. It’s infinite and eternal teeming with life that's are described as heartbeats in its endless nothingness. The Void proliferates with different versions of Creation as well as different...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also did we accept Void = Overvoid thing?

 

[Rgerdeena]

The only Overvoid that should be used is Morrison as his version is the absolute. Snyder and the other writers don't understand non duality and theirs are not the absolute.

annoying when writers don’t understand stuff, but we can’t just ignore their works, their both DC comics so they are both equally relevant, the whole reason the cosmology split happened in the first place was because we treated the works of some writers as less relevant

 

[Rgerdeena]

Sorry to be the contrarian but this merger will actually make the cosmology very robust and will need to very large extrapolation of stats, good for DC fans but of course many may disagree of pure vibes. E.g In this case New Gods being High 1A is guaranteed.

Why would cosmology merge make new gods high 1-A

 

[Rgerdeena]

The Void (Vertigo)

The Void is a timeless realm outside Creation where different Creations with different Creator exist. It’s infinite and eternal teeming with life that's are described as heartbeats in its endless nothingness. The Void proliferates with different versions of Creation as well as different...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also did we accept Void = Overvoid thing?

I’m not sure, some stuff from that thread has been added and some stuff hasn’t

 

[Rgerdeena]

Jon is already 94x baseline solar, but i think his raiting is outdated and he should be galaxy level because he scales to Rebirth Superman's base.

now that my confusion from there being multiple superboys has been cleared up, yes he should be galaxy level and he isn’t the only rebirth character that’s solar system level when they should be galaxy level(wonder woman and aquaman)

 

[Wirtzwest]

in that case you have to prove SoG being High 1A i think. Goofy args were rejected iirc dont know what else can be arg for SoG. Although if you can make SoG High 1A i guess everything else would be endless layers into baseline and one meta.

The bohms explicate order from animal man are just not normal universes unfolding they are dreams unfolding . Of which James highwater asks buddy who is dreaming who?

 

[Wirtzwest]

Why would cosmology merge make new gods high 1-A

Dematteis and vertigo upscale. Adding to this flash emanationism throughout the multiverse and animal man's bohms implicate and explicate order.

 

[Wirtzwest]

annoying when writers don’t understand stuff, but we can’t just ignore their works, their both DC comics so they are both equally relevant, the whole reason the cosmology split happened in the first place was because we treated the works of some writers as less relevant

The overvoid can be argued to be the most aperion being in this wiki but you have scans saying that chronicler was travelling across the overvoid, perpetua using the overvoid to make her sons. I just can't anymore.

 

[Hecky2222]

The overvoid can be argued to be the most aperion being in this wiki

???????? wdym

 

[Wirtzwest]

???????? wdym

Long story. Overvoid is just Morrisons version of God you can use doom patrol and also kid eternity scans. In short a true absolute monadic entity. Some other wikis have tiers of their own regarding this.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Dematteis and vertigo upscale. Adding to this flash emanationism throughout the multiverse and animal man's bohms implicate and explicate order.

I got that, I meant who would they upscale from who from dematteis and vertigo is high 1-A and is supposedly weaker than the new gods

 

[Rgerdeena]

Long story. Overvoid is just Morrisons version of God you can use doom patrol and also kid eternity scans. In short a true absolute monadic entity. Some other wikis have tiers of their own regarding this.

Morrison isn’t the only one that has written about overvoid, maybe overvoid has different forms or something just like how a lot of marvel and dc high tiers have multiple forms, maybe the multiverse being added to him was plot induced stupidity, maybe overvoid isn’t absolute, maybe something else, which one of those it is isn’t for me to decide but we can’t just only use morrison’s works to define overvoid, acting like who the writer is is relevant is the whole reason the ridiculous cosmology split happened in the first place

 

[KirbyFan03]

Ppersonally the Overvoid in its Truest Form is one with the True Source and the Presence. The Great Darkness is > Aspect of Overvoid and heck, The Monitors Three (World Forger, Monitor, Anti Monitor) were made from fragments of the Overvoid

 

[Wirtzwest]

I got that, I meant who would they upscale from who from dematteis and vertigo is high 1-A and is supposedly weaker than the new gods

The totality of the material plane will be boosted(flash emanations and bohms explicate order). Boosting the metaphysical realms. The metaphysical realms in vertigo and Dematteis are high 1A. None of them are weaker but last time people wanted uniformity of scaling the new gods to their realms.

 

[Wirtzwest]

Ppersonally the Overvoid in its Truest Form is one with the True Source and the Presence. The Great Darkness is > Aspect of Overvoid and heck, The Monitors Three (World Forger, Monitor, Anti Monitor) were made from fragments of the Overvoid

This shows the overvoid is not indivisible. That tier 0 looks shaky. But Morrison AMA is the newest source so let's run with it

 

[Wirtzwest]

Morrison isn’t the only one that has written about overvoid, maybe overvoid has different forms or something just like how a lot of marvel and dc high tiers have multiple forms, maybe the multiverse being added to him was plot induced stupidity, maybe overvoid isn’t absolute, maybe something else, which one of those it is isn’t for me to decide but we can’t just only use morrison’s works to define overvoid, acting like who the writer is is relevant is the whole reason the ridiculous cosmology split happened in the first place

Synder will pay for his crimes.

 

[Rgerdeena]

The totality of the material plane will be boosted(flash emanations and bohms explicate order). Boosting the metaphysical realms. The metaphysical realms in vertigo and Dematteis are high 1A. None of them are weaker but last time people wanted uniformity of scaling the new gods to their realms.

hmm, makes sense

 

[Rgerdeena]

Synder will pay for his crimes.

you could make a matchup of bloodlusted wally west vs Snyder where the only win condition is killing the opponent lol

 

[Asterotheology]

The sphere of gods would High 1-A because of the inclusion of Vertigo and DeMatteis. Heaven under DeMatteis was endlessly into High 1-A. Heaven merely being a shadow of a shadow of the true heaven. And we know from a later issue in the same run, that they're deeper and truer dreams beyond it. Hell being Heaven's reflection means it functions the same. And while I don't remember the exact reason from Vertigo, the Dreaming and the Silver City was rated High 1-A in the Vertigo cosmology.

So everyone that scales to the full Sphere of Gods would be High 1-A on the extreme low end to infinite layers into High 1-A on the high end. This is what staff unknowingly or knowingly accepted when they decided there was no incompatibilities between Vertigo, DeMatteis and the main work. The material plane below it would also be 1-A to 1-A+. And since DeMatteis was one of the most consistent writers when it came to there being infinite universes at all times in Post Crisis and N52. Heralds would also see a huge bump as well.

 

[Rgerdeena]

And since DeMatteis was one of the most consistent writers when it came to there being infinite universes at all times in Post Crisis and N52. Heralds would also see a huge bump as well.

Based on the cosmology page there’s infinite universes in the multiverse but 52 universes in the local multiverse, so demattis saying there’s infinite universes in the multiverse wouldn’t change the scaling of anyone who scales to 52 universes currently

 

[Asterotheology]

Based on the cosmology page there’s infinite universes in the multiverse but 52 universes in the local multiverse, so demattis saying there’s infinite universes in the multiverse wouldn’t change the scaling of anyone who scales to 52 universes currently

The "local" multiverse is only the known 52 universes. As in, they're the universes that could be found via frequencies as far as I remember. That doesn't mean the other ones weren't in the same structure. All of the universes exist together, but with different vibrational frequencies. And as far as the cosmology blog goes, I'm pretty sure that's going to need a lot of tweaking since everything is being combined now.

 

[Rgerdeena]

The "local" multiverse is only the known 52 universes. As in, they're the universes that could be found via frequencies as far as I remember. That doesn't mean the other ones weren't in the same structure. All of the universes exist together, but with different vibrational frequencies. And as far as the cosmology blog goes, I'm pretty sure that's going to need a lot of tweaking since everything is being combined now.

My point is that if the multiverse as a whole already had infinite universes then demattis works saying the multiverse has infinite universes doesn’t change anything about herald scaling since they already don’t scale to the whole multiverse

 

[KirbyFan03]

Id agree. The local multiverse is 52 universes BUT those who can affect the bleed should be bumped up drastically. Personally The New Gods have boom tubes to explain their power and there's the fact that currently they're in the DC Universe in Ram Vs New Gods. It's hinted at that The New God Emanations are higher dimensional beings so I don't really see the confusion

 

[Asterotheology]

My point is that if the multiverse as a whole already had infinite universes then demattis works saying the multiverse has infinite universes doesn’t change anything about herald scaling since they already don’t scale to the whole multiverse

Oh, now I get what you meant. I didn't realize Heralds didn't scale to the full thing. That said, because of how DeMatteis cosmology was set up and accepted by staff. Any multiversal feat is 1-A by default. So that in general would affect the herald scaling. Since they deemed it consistent enough to combine it back together.

Id agree. The local multiverse is 52 universes BUT those who can affect the bleed should be bumped up drastically. Personally The New Gods have boom tubes to explain their power and there's the fact that currently they're in the DC Universe in Ram Vs New Gods. It's hinted at that The New God Emanations are higher dimensional beings so I don't really see the confusion

A lot of things are going to be bumped up pretty drastically. That's why I was surprised when I saw that staff accepted both DeMatteis and Vertigo being fully composite again.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Oh, now I get what you meant. I didn't realize Heralds didn't scale to the full thing. That said, because of how DeMatteis cosmology was set up and accepted by staff. Any multiversal feat is 1-A by default. So that in general would affect the herald scaling. Since they deemed it consistent enough to combine it back together.

Local multiverse is just 52 universes, because of reality equalization rules a single universe is in the same tier as regular universes, higher stuff can be higher tiers but I’m pretty sure that 52 universes isn’t qualitatively superior to 1 universe

A lot of things are going to be bumped up pretty drastically. That's why I was surprised when I saw that staff accepted both DeMatteis and Vertigo being fully composite again.

the tier of what things are is mostly irrelevant to whether or not there should be a cosmology split

 

[KirbyFan03]

Oh, now I get what you meant. I didn't realize Heralds didn't scale to the full thing. That said, because of how DeMatteis cosmology was set up and accepted by staff. Any multiversal feat is 1-A by default. So that in general would affect the herald scaling. Since they deemed it consistent enough to combine it back together.


A lot of things are going to be bumped up pretty drastically. That's why I was surprised when I saw that staff accepted both DeMatteis and Vertigo being fully composite again.

The multiverse peeps imo should remain the same. Bleed folk and above need to get amped up lol

 

[Hecky2222]

Long story. Overvoid is just Morrisons version of God you can use doom patrol and also kid eternity scans. In short a true absolute monadic entity. Some other wikis have tiers of their own regarding this.

I know other wikis and absolute monadic entities. I just wondered by statement of "True absolute" cuz in fact I dont see how it is? In no theology I saw "absolute blank page which everything is drawn"

 

[Hecky2222]

The sphere of gods would High 1-A because of the inclusion of Vertigo and DeMatteis. Heaven under DeMatteis was endlessly into High 1-A. Heaven merely being a shadow of a shadow of the true heaven. And we know from a later issue in the same run, that they're deeper and truer dreams beyond it. Hell being Heaven's reflection means it functions the same. And while I don't remember the exact reason from Vertigo, the Dreaming and the Silver City was rated High 1-A in the Vertigo cosmology.

So everyone that scales to the full Sphere of Gods would be High 1-A on the extreme low end to infinite layers into High 1-A on the high end. This is what staff unknowingly or knowingly accepted when they decided there was no incompatibilities between Vertigo, DeMatteis and the main work. The material plane below it would also be 1-A to 1-A+. And since DeMatteis was one of the most consistent writers when it came to there being infinite universes at all times in Post Crisis and N52. Heralds would also see a huge bump as well.

I really doubt about layers of SoG. Assuming under current cosmology SoG begins with baseline 1A without layering. So if we assume SoG would be High 1A it would begin with baseline

And to make SoG High 1A I assume either Metaphysical Realms(Red, Blue, Green currently they are Low 1A) or DeMatteis universes(I feel like it is unlikely at best it might get +1D R > F)

So SoG would begin with baseline High 1A if so. Assuming everything else were endlessly 1A+ under Crisis they would be Endlessly into Baseline High 1A whereas High 1A under current scale probably would be one Meta layer

 

[KirbyFan03]

I really doubt about layers of SoG. Assuming under current cosmology SoG begins with baseline 1A without layering. So if we assume SoG would be High 1A it would begin with baseline

And to make SoG High 1A I assume either Metaphysical Realms(Red, Blue, Green currently they are Low 1A) or DeMatteis universes(I feel like it is unlikely at best it might get +1D R > F)

So SoG would begin with baseline High 1A if so. Assuming everything else were endlessly 1A+ under Crisis they would be Endlessly into Baseline High 1A whereas High 1A under current scale probably would be one Meta layer

There is another way to argue High Outer SoG and that involves if you but R>F Earth 33

 

[Hecky2222]

There is another way to argue High Outer SoG and that involves if you but R>F Earth 33

Unacceptable Examples

• Earth-33 from DC Comics: A realm that only sees the superheroes of other worlds and the worlds they live in as fiction. However, they have no demonstrated sense of transcendence and the world's inhabitants are treated as equally 'real' to the superheroes they see as fiction as they are both within the same multiverse
  
  Nope you cant. It is written on https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Reality-Fiction_Transcendence page that this is unacceptable example

 

[KirbyFan03]

Unacceptable Examples

• Earth-33 from DC Comics: A realm that only sees the superheroes of other worlds and the worlds they live in as fiction. However, they have no demonstrated sense of transcendence and the world's inhabitants are treated as equally 'real' to the superheroes they see as fiction as they are both within the same multiverse
  
  Nope you cant. It is written on https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Reality-Fiction_Transcendence page that this is unacceptable example

Then without DeMatteis it's Outer+

 

[KirbyFan03]

Also it kind of bothers me that DCs 6D beings are in the same tier as Mxy. They're above him, made from the fragments of the Overvoid and they can create Hypertime which contains the speedforce. Baseline High 1-A imo should be given to them given their place in DC lore, there's also them having a lot of modal realism stuff to them too

 

[Hecky2222]

Also it kind of bothers me that DCs 6D beings are in the same tier as Mxy. They're above him, made from the fragments of the Overvoid and they can create Hypertime which contains the speedforce. Baseline High 1-A imo should be given to them given their place in DC lore, there's also them having a lot of modal realism stuff to them too

They are not. You are just assuming 1A+ = 1A+

1A+ can have own layers. Reason they arent High 1A is there is no quality change

 

[KirbyFan03]

They are not. You are just assuming 1A+ = 1A+

1A+ can have own layers. Reason they arent High 1A is there is no quality change

On our page we do have the speed force at High 1-A. The 6D beings wield the dimensional superstructure that controls the speedforce and not only that World Forger created Hypertime which contains the speedforce too

 

[KirbyFan03]

On our page we do have the speed force at High 1-A. The 6D beings wield the dimensional superstructure that controls the speedforce and not only that World Forger created Hypertime which contains the speedforce too

They're also made from the overvoid which somewhaaaaat makes sense for them to do these things

 

[Hecky2222]

On our page we do have the speed force at High 1-A. The 6D beings wield the dimensional superstructure that controls the speedforce and not only that World Forger created Hypertime which contains the speedforce too

Reason why Speedforce was High 1A is this wiki assumed Deep Change = Speedforce. Although under revisions Speedforce might get downscale kind of. Also where Hypertime contains Speedforce?

 

[Hecky2222]

Also it kind of bothers me that DCs 6D beings are in the same tier as Mxy. They're above him, made from the fragments of the Overvoid and they can create Hypertime which contains the speedforce. Baseline High 1-A imo should be given to them given their place in DC lore, there's also them having a lot of modal realism stuff to them too

Bruh. Modal Realism isnt High 1A. This wiki makes Modal Realism High 1A+ in very rare cases if there is no structures or anti feats above you except Boundless.

Noone can predate High 1A+ except Boundless. But tone of characters are above Mxy, 5D, 6D
High 1A+ itself cant be layered. So no you are not getting High 1A "cuz of Modal Realism"

 

[KirbyFan03]

Bruh. Modal Realism isnt High 1A. This wiki makes Modal Realism High 1A+ in very rare cases if there is no structures or anti feats above you except Boundless.

Noone can predate High 1A+ except Boundless. But tone of characters are above Mxy, 5D, 6D
High 1A+ itself cant be layered. So no you are not getting High 1A "cuz of Modal Realism"

Guess I was mistaken with that. I'll get my scans for Hypertime containing the speedforce and other stuff ready

 

[Rgerdeena]

Reason why Speedforce was High 1A is this wiki assumed Deep Change = Speedforce. Although under revisions Speedforce might get downscale kind of. Also where Hypertime contains Speedforce?

speed force is one of the seven forces of the universe, which are also called anti crisis energy as in the stuff that the hands use and the stuff that made Wonder Woman high 1-A temporarily, so speed force could be high 1-A from that