General DC Comics Discussion Thread

[AerrowStorm1]

It says galactic level, not the same as literally a galaxy buster. If so, show me a scan of him actually destroying a galaxy, something that supports your evidence of it being an actual galaxy buster just because it was called a galactic destroyer, especially since that can also be used as a level of devastation so big that reaches galactic levels.

It....doesn't. The literal words aren't "galactic level super destroyer" It's Galaxy Plus Super Destroyer. Galaxy is baseline, then plus means above baseline. Is it POSSIBLE that it means "causes a level of destruction so big it reaches galaxy level and beyond"? Sure. But that would need to be clarified.

That'd only mean he can devastate planet, not literally disappearing them, reason why some feats are interpreted like that.

That makes no sense. I've never seen anything described as a "Planet plus super destroyer" not literally mean it can oneshot planets. Example here where a weapon is called a planet killer and it literally oneshots a planet. Is it possible? Sure but it's not the standard. Again, I'm simply taking it literally because that's all we're told. Is your take possible? Sure, but again, until it's contradicted, I'm going with the literal statement that fits the escalation of The Green Lantern Season 2

Not the point remotely.

My friend, it's...sort of exactly the point. The entire point of The Green Lantern Season 2 is Hal preparing for Ultrawar. It makes no narrative sense for him to go down a power level from fighting a Type Omega species if he's prepping to fight bigger threats.

If you really think that having the same density as a star means having the same mass, which is completely necessary to have a solar system level of destruction, you're completely wrong.
Solaris wasn't as big as a star, meaning he wasn't as strong as a supernova.

So, I'm not sure where we're having a disconnect.

Solaris has Solar Mass, explictly stated and Neutron level gravity, implying solar density. Again. a third statement. As for "He wasn't as strong as a supernova"....it's explictly stated his supernova was going to be the exact nova event of a red giant going nova. The comic is very clear on this. It's meant to be an actual Solar System level Supernova event.

And funny you mention this as support evidence, since Kyle almost suffered an hemorrhage from the effort, needing Superman to come to his aid.
What a support evidence for the Tier 3 to need help to contain a Tier 4 energy.

Um, my friend? Did you not read my reply carefully? This isn't supporting evidence for Tier 3, it's supporting evidence for lower tiers and rookies. Quote mine

For low ends and rookies, we have the planet and star level stuff such as:

Not sure how you missed that..

Two tier 4 and tier 5, great.
And if we go by this, there are more than enough anti feats of that

Again, low ends and rookies. I'm not sure where the disconnect is coming from.

 

[Adr10K]

It....doesn't. The literal words aren't "galactic level super destroyer" It's Galaxy Plus Super Destroyer. Galaxy is baseline, then plus means above baseline. Is it POSSIBLE that it means "causes a level of destruction so big it reaches galaxy level and beyond"? Sure. But that would need to be clarified.

Dude, if something has multiple ways to be interpretated, then it can't be used properly.

That makes no sense. I've never seen anything described as a "Planet plus super destroyer" not literally mean it can oneshot planets. Example here where a weapon is called a planet killer and it literally oneshots a planet. Is it possible? Sure but it's not the standard. Again, I'm simply taking it literally because that's all we're told. Is your take possible? Sure, but again, until it's contradicted, I'm going with the literal statement that fits the escalation of The Green Lantern Season 2

Again, multiple ways to interpret something, not clear at all.

My friend, it's...sort of exactly the point. The entire point of The Green Lantern Season 2 is Hal preparing for Ultrawar. It makes no narrative sense for him to go down a power level from fighting a Type Omega species if he's prepping to fight bigger threats.

They aren't going low in power, he's still a "next level threats", but not scaling to the level you're implying.

So, I'm not sure where we're having a disconnect.

Solaris has Solar Mass, explictly stated and Neutron level gravity, implying solar density. Again. a third statement. As for "He wasn't as strong as a supernova"....it's explictly stated his supernova was going to be the exact nova event of a red giant going nova. The comic is very clear on this. It's meant to be an actual Solar System level Supernova event.



Um, my friend? Did you not read my reply carefully? This isn't supporting evidence for Tier 3, it's supporting evidence for lower tiers and rookies. Quote mine

Not sure how you missed that..

Dude, Kyle literally has accepted statements of him being above most JLeaguers, even being able to match Superman all out, or Hal.
You're not making yourself any favor.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Dude, if something has multiple ways to be interpretated, then it can't be used properly.

I disagree, but if that's your feelings, that's fine

They aren't going low in power, he's still a "next level threats", but not scaling to the level you're implying.

OK, so explain what's the next level from a Type Omega Kardashev scale civilization, which would be a type 3, as the final ultimate level.

Dude, Kyle literally has accepted statements of him being above most JLeaguers, even being able to match Superman all out, or Hal.
You're not making yourself any favor.

Were these statements pre-Circle of Fire or Post? And pre-Torchbearer/Ion or post Torchbearer/Ion?

Here are all the statements I know of, and they're Post Circle of Fire Kyle, Road to Ion Kyle, or Ion Kyle himself, except Dream's statement from JLA#22 IN 1998 which is that Kyle WILL surpass Hal someday, not that he currently is stronger as a rookie.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Would be nice if someone could evaluate those cals I need them for future profiles

DC Interstellar Speed Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Adr10K]

Would be nice if someone could evaluate those cals I need them for future profiles

DC Interstellar Speed Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

First of all, we should have a separate key for Kryptonians when they're under an atmosphere, Clark and other have said a bunch of times how their powers get reduced when they're on the planet, and that just going out in space allows them to perform and resist thing that they wouldn't be able to do normally.

And I disagree with scaling anyone (even MMH) to that Planck feat, since it's an enormous outlier, being above everything any other character has performed when using finite speed, even above Flash.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

First of all, we should have a separate key for Kryptonians when they're under an atmosphere, Clark and other have said a bunch of times how their powers get reduced when they're on the planet, and that just going out in space allows them to perform and resist thing that they wouldn't be able to do normally.

Where is that stated?

And I disagree with scaling anyone (even MMH) to that Planck feat, since it's an enormous outlier, being above everything any other character has performed when using finite speed, even above Flash.

Superman have a faster feat, it shouldn't be an outlier and it should also just upscale Flash, who himself arguably has a feat close to that lvl too

 

[Adr10K]

Superman have a faster feat, it shouldn't be an outlier and it should also just upscale Flash, who himself arguably has a feat close to that lvl too

Superman doesn't have a feat this good, lol.
And just scaling chain everyone, including the dude who's supposed to be faster than everyone, is wrong. That's why a few years ago, wonder woman feat of reacting to the shattered God wasn't accepted until Flash himself had a comparable / faster feat.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Superman doesn't have a feat this good, lol.

He does

 

[Adr10K]

He does

Share it, then

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Share it, then

I litterally just linked the feat? But if u want the value its 2.348291230195e+168 at low end. Flash also has a feat of percieving a computer that can proceeds 100 petaflops as slow which could yield results near that but I'd need to calc it

 

[Adr10K]

I litterally just linked the feat? But if u want the value its 2.348291230195e+168 at low end.

Yeah, you're calc is wrong
- It uses calc stacking, since you literally used a foreign calc to say "Yeah, the DC Universe has more info than ours", and even then, assuming the universe keep spending that much in that time is completely with no basis.
And I don't even know if data works like that, lol.

Flash also has a feat of percieving a computer that can proceeds 100 petaflops as slow which could yield results near that but I'd need to calc it

And even then, it'd be below Manhunter's.
And if I'm not mistaken, that scan comes from N52, which has a Flash too limited with his speed, even LS being a bigger issue than normally, so, is bigger of an outlier.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Yeah, you're calc is wrong
- It uses calc stacking, since you literally used a foreign calc to say "Yeah, the DC Universe has more info than ours", and even then, assuming the universe keep spending that much in that time is completely with no basis.
And I don't even know if data works like that, lol.

That's not calc stacking at all, because to calc the feat, you'd still need to calc the size of the DC Universe regardless. Its likely even bigger with the New Gods statement saying the Universe is at least 2 yottaparsec wide. And since it was accepted, you can go contact the staff who evaluated it to prove him wrong as well

This is like saying that using the calc of the size of a city to calc its destruction is calc stacking

And even then, it'd be below Manhunter's.

And if I'm not mistaken, that scan comes from N52, which has a Flash too limited with his speed, even LS being a bigger issue than normally, so, is bigger of an outlier.

Proof?

 

[Hayato5652]

He does

......

 

[Adr10K]

That's not calc stacking at all, because to calc the feat, you'd still need to calc the size of the DC Universe regardless.

You don't, just using the actual size of the universo is the correct move, instead of headcanoing everything. Esoeciallh when, again, you assumed the universe kept growing at those speeds, just because?

Its likely even bigger with the New Gods statement saying the Universe is at least 2 yottaparsec wide. And since it was accepted, you can go contact the staff who evaluated it to prove him wrong as well

Their job is to evaluate calcs, they don't need to know or argue if the person misused knformatjon, if it's consistent or things like that, that'd go against the person itself.
I'll go after you, if needed, not against a calc member lol.

This is like saying that using the calc of the size of a city to calc its destruction is calc stacking

Bit remotely the same.

Proof?

Like, his entire volume? Barry couldn't reach relativistic speeds without going into the Speed Force or causing singularities, and he had a lot of light speed level feats, assuming he can CASUALLY go MFTL+ when those levels aren't the standard in that run is why the comics scaling is so messed up.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You don't, just using the actual size of the universo is the correct move,

While DC portrays their Universe as being Yottaspercs bigger than our real Universe? No

instead of headcanoing everything. Esoeciallh when, again, you assumed the universe kept growing at those speeds, just because?

What part of the Universe calc size is a "headcanon" ? You aren't even addressing the claim

Their job is to evaluate calcs, they don't need to know or argue if the person misused knformatjon,

Yeah they need to know

if it's consistent or things like that, that'd go against the person itself.
I'll go after you, if needed, not against a calc member lol.

Well Im not the one who got the calc accepted either, so go debunk the calc member too

Bit remotely the same.

Not at all

Like, his entire volume? Barry couldn't reach relativistic speeds without going into the Speed Force or causing singularities, and he had a lot of light speed level feats, assuming he can CASUALLY go MFTL+ when those levels aren't the standard in that run is why the comics scaling is so messed up.

Yet Prime Flash can reach Immeasurable Speeds....

 

[Adr10K]

While DC portrays their Universe as being Yottaspercs bigger than our real Universe? No.

Then use that instead, lmao, that'd be more accurate than what you did. And even then, we don't even know if Up in the Sky is canon at all, since its narrative puts it as a stand alone story with no connections with any of the stories at the time.

What part of the Universe calc size is a "headcanon" ? You aren't even addressing the claim

Literally assuming the universe kept growing in size with those measurements, which aren't confirmed at all.

Yeah they need to know

No, that's not their job. Especially if they're not familiarized with the verse.

Well Im not the one who got the calc accepted either, so go debunk the calc member too

I'm going to debunk you, not going against a dude whose job isn't even that.

Yet Prime Flash can reach Immeasurable Speeds....

And that'll be addressed when the time comes.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Then use that instead, lmao, that'd be more accurate than what you did. And even then, we don't even know if Up in the Sky is canon at all, since its narrative puts it as a stand alone story with no connections with any of the stories at the time.

That would just raise the result higher. Again, I fail to see how calcing the size of the Universe (which we need to do for the calc, is calc stacking). Using a blog calcing the size of a planet to calc its destruction (not calc stack) isn't the same as using a blog calculating the AP of someone to calc the AP of someone else (actual calc stack)

Literally assuming the universe kept growing in size with those measurements, which aren't confirmed at all.

Proof it isn't confirmed?

No, that's not their job. Especially if they're not familiarized with the verse.

The staff who evaluated this is a DC Supporter....

I'm going to debunk you, not going against a dude whose job isn't even that.

Debunking me won't make the calc go invalid or go away unless u make a thread about it that gets accepted. You claim a lot of things but never send any scans

 

[Ozcantabak]

Anyone seen this ?

Absolute Universe

For detailed information about this series, visit the Absolute Universe Page in DC Wiki. The Absolute Universe, commonly referred to as The Elseworld or the Alpha World, is a parallel universe that emerged concurrently with Earth Omega following the creation of the Infinite Frontier in the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Vasco]

Then use that instead, lmao, that'd be more accurate than what you did. And even then, we don't even know if Up in the Sky is canon at all, since its narrative puts it as a stand alone story with no connections with any of the stories at the time.

Literally assuming the universe kept growing in size with those measurements, which aren't confirmed at all.

No, that's not their job. Especially if they're not familiarized with the verse.

I'm going to debunk you, not going against a dude whose job isn't even that.

And that'll be addressed when the time comes.

You haven't dropped a single scan or proof throughout every discussion, you have no right to call anyone's claim headcanon.

 

[Adr10K]

You haven't dropped a single scan or proof throughout every discussion, you have no right to call anyone's claim headcanon.

Literally everything I've been saying is just go against his points using logic, scans aren't needed in these situations, literally he's the one who needs to prove his points.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Literally everything I've been saying is just go against his points using logic, scans aren't needed in these situations, literally he's the one who needs to prove his points.

Not my burden to prove the calc wrong. U never proved anything about relativiatic Flash, or Kryptonians having low speed in the atmosphere than in the Earth which btw is contradictory with them keeping up with people who moves at speeds close their space feats without killing anyone. All claims, no proof.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Literally everything I've been saying is just go against his points using logic, scans aren't needed in these situations, literally he's the one who needs to prove his points.

Calcing the size of a Universe to calc Universe feats is illogical🗣

 

[Vasco]

Literally everything I've been saying is just go against his points using logic, scans aren't needed in these situations, literally he's the one who needs to prove his points.

Logic alone isn't needed without proof backing each of the claims you made, debunking scan without proof is one thing but mentioning other new claims you need to prove it, you don't just disagree with words alone...the scans proving your claims are the real rebuttal. I kept observing the discussion atleast expecting you to atleast prove some of them but you didn't even drop even a single panel.

Debate well next time.

 

[Adr10K]

Not my burden to prove the calc
wrong. U never proved anything about relativiatic Flash, or Kryptonians having low speed in the atmosphere than in the Earth which btw is contradictory with them keeping up with people who moves at speeds close their space feats without killing anyone. All claims, no proof.

Superman (1987) #159
Superman: The Man of Steel (1986) #50
Our Worlds At War
Swamp Thing Vol 2 #79

Superman's consistently affected by how the rays of the sun interact with our atmosphere and his powers go beyond the scale when he leaves Earth, as he has tecrually said a handful of times.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Superman (1987) #159

He said he's joking here lol

Superman: The Man of Steel (1986) #50

This is a healing feat, saying he's recovering from the paralysis ray faster because he's got more Solar energy to heal faster, not saying he's stronger/faster

Swamp Thing Vol 2 #79

This says going beyond the atmosphere allows him to restore his batteries faster, not that he's stronger/faster

Superman's consistently affected by how the rays of the sun interact with our atmosphere and his powers go beyond the scale when he leaves Earth, as he has tecrually said a handful of times.

Allat is Pre Flashpoint Superman tho. Its also stated that the atmosphere thing is a placebo effect ,and the fact he store that Solar energy which means he can keep some levels of strength/speed for a while... + Its not even necessary. We already have Varies depending on Solar Absorption

 

[Adr10K]

He said he's joking here lol

He's kidding about his statement of now being able to move planets, not about him feeling different about being outside the atmosphere.

This is a healing feat, saying he's recovering from the paralysis ray faster because he's got more Solar energy to heal faster, not saying he's stronger/faster.

Are you serious, right? ALL of his powers come from the same source, it's not like one aspect of him is affected different from the other ones, being outside of the atmosphere allows him to perform better than when in, that's the point.

This says going beyond the atmosphere allows him to restore his batteries faster, not that he's stronger/faster.

Exactly the same as before, everything is correlated.

Allat is Pre Flashpoint Superman tho. Its also stated that the atmosphere thing is a placebo effect ,and the fact he store that Solar energy which means he can keep some levels of strength/speed for a while... + Its not even necessary. We already have Varies depending on Solar Absorption

It adds a varies on the varies itself. Since it's not just about him letting his powers out, but also where he is when doing it.

And funny how you ignored the OWAW.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

He's kidding about his statement of now being able to move planets, not about him feeling different about being outside the atmosphere.

Kyle ask if his entire statement is a joke, to which he says "yes". So this is essentially headcanon

Are you serious, right? ALL of his powers come from the same source, it's not like one aspect of him is affected different from the other ones, being outside of the atmosphere allows him to perform better than when in, that's the point.

So what? How does the Sun being his source of power that disprove what I said

Exactly the same as before, everything is correlated.

Ig this is answered above

It adds a varies on the varies itself. Since it's not just about him letting his powers out, but also where he is when doing it.

He can store that Solar Energy, so being in the atmosphere or not wouldn't even matter

And funny how you ignored the OWAW.

What's funnier is taking allat out of context. In the very next pages, Kal El says the Sun was just to keep his Stamina at 100% from within the planet

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Superman (1987) #159
Superman: The Man of Steel (1986) #50
Our Worlds At War
Swamp Thing Vol 2 #79

Superman's consistently affected by how the rays of the sun interact with our atmosphere and his powers go beyond the scale when he leaves Earth, as he has tecrually said a handful of times.

So, besides most of these being from pre-Mongul training, when Mongul literally said the atmosphere's effect on him is a placebo, only one says what you claimed and he literally says he's joking right after. Superman vol 2 (1997) #159

None of the rest say he's getting stronger/above his max, they say he's getting to his maximum faster because he's getting more sunlight. Let's break it down.

Superman the Man of Steel #50. Pages ago, Superman had been drained by Parasite to a husk then thrown into the sun. He nearly dies but his power is restored and he states he's not at full strength yet. The paralyzing ray mentioned in your scan and your scan. Clark says he's not able to hold back as he usually does because he absorbed energy too quickly, and that mindspace has him "sundrunk with power". This is "I'm getting back to 100% too quickly", not "I'm stronger than usual." There is a statement of being "powered up", in that same comic, but in context, it's referring to those chains being able to hold him when he has powers, when previously he didn't.

Swamp Thing vol 2 #79 is the same. He states he's trying to get to 100% quickly, not that he's getting stronger.

This isn't from Our Worlds at War, it's from Superman: The Man of Steel 131, which is part of "The Ending Battle" not "Our Worlds at War". And Superman directly states the effect of the sun is keeping him at 100%, not amping him beyond his limits.

"

Are you serious, right? ALL of his powers come from the same source, it's not like one aspect of him is affected different from the other ones, being outside of the atmosphere allows him to perform better than when in, that's the point.

This is untrue. His healing feats explictly are one of the biggest drains of his solar power, and needs sunlight to replenish him. While in context, this healing feat was explictly him going to 100% quicker than he thought, it's shown multiple times his healing eats his reserves quickly so being able to recharge faster than they can eat his reserves is not proof of him being amped in other aspects.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

In fact, we ACTUALLY DO have a statement on Superman's speed in atmosphere vs out, and it's not that Atmosphere weakens him, it's that he holds back in atmo to not cause massive damage. Superman vol 2 #217

 

[Adr10K]

Im amazed by how you guys don't understanding this, lmao.

You can't separate Clark's abilities, Supes being outside of the planet's atmosphere allows him to absorb energy faster / more directly, which translates to him having MORE power by literally following the concept of the character.

So what? How does the Sun being his source of power that disprove what I said

You're just being obnoxious.

 

[Antvasima]

No mocking, hostility, or bickering please.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Im amazed by how you guys don't understanding this, lmao.

You can't separate Clark's abilities, Supes being outside of the planet's atmosphere allows him to absorb energy faster / more directly, which translates to him having MORE power by literally following the concept of the character.

That's not what it says though. It says he's not having more power, he's reaching 100% quicker.

Like, this logic doesn't really square. If absorbing the energy quicker made him, like double in power, you'd have a point, but it's stated to not be giving him more power, just absorbing energy quicker.

Like, it's the difference between using a 20v or a 50v battery charger. Both charge a battery to 100%, but one does it in 30m and 1 does it in 15.

 

[Antvasima]

Entering suns does supercharge Superman though.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Entering suns does supercharge Superman though.

So does being on Earth near a Yellow Sun

Im amazed by how you guys don't understanding this, lmao.

You can't separate Clark's abilities, Supes being outside of the planet's atmosphere allows him to absorb energy faster / more directly, which translates to him having MORE power by literally following the concept of the character.

Explain how even average Kryptonians can triple their powers within the atmosphere of a planet thanks to many Suns which didn't limit them?

Him recharging faster outside Earth doesn't mean much besides him reaching 100% lvl faster

You're just being obnoxious.

"/ignore" ah argument

 

[Antvasima]

So does being on Earth near a Yellow Sun

Not to nearly the same degree, and I was responding to the full battery allegory.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Not to nearly the same degree, and I was responding to the full battery allegory.

Remember that of Arrow's scan said Superman can stay at 100% within the Earth thanks to the Sun

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Entering suns does supercharge Superman though.

Yes. Entering them is fully different from just being in space. To use my metaphor from previously, it's the difference between using a charger and being plugged directly into the electrical grid, and is stated to surpass his baseline limits, starting with his first canonical sundip that gave him more than full power instead of just bringing him back to full power Action Comics 782

 

[Vasco]

Im amazed by how you guys don't understanding this, lmao.

You can't separate Clark's abilities, Supes being outside of the planet's atmosphere allows him to absorb energy faster / more directly, which translates to him having MORE power by literally following the concept of the character.



You're just being obnoxious.

It's absolutely redundant anyway, no need for him having seperate keys in atmosphere and out of it since we all know he holds back alot when on earth, even once said the whole planet is like cardboard to him. Another reason we don't add unnecessary keys to superman pages before I left the wiki was cause of his page being clogged up with keys unnecessarily, that's why there are no boomtune, GOS, WL, 6th Dimension and other sort of keys on his page.

 

[Elizio33]

Foxy, the “child” of the Deep Change, a universal constant and the source of time itself, said to be born from its dreams, has been described as a juvenile Source, a baby Presence.

Source: The Flash Vol 6 24

 

[Elizio33]

Upon reflection, the Deep Change may be more accurately understood as a facet or emanation of the Source, rather than as a separate agent akin to Perpetua. Several observations support this interpretation:

Wally West directly referred to the Deep Change as both the Source and the Light.

The Deep Change is described as the origin of time and as something that was dreamed by the Deep Change itself.

Its child, Foxy, is characterized as a "juvenile Source" and even called a “baby Presence.”