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General DC Comics Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Confluctor
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- dc comics
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dude stop sounding like a moral crusader.Okay. You are obviously entitled to your opinion, and I personally dislike the kind of media that you gave examples for considerably more.
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As I have said previously, I have extremely good reasons for thinking that if all forms of media systematically desensitise and erode the capacity of conscience, compassion, and moral integrity of the public at large, then they will elect even more amoral demagogues as their leaders, and the world as a whole will go straight to hell.
However, this likely does not apply on the "DC K.O." event. I am speaking in general terms.
However, this likely does not apply on the "DC K.O." event. I am speaking in general terms.
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I don't care if a story has violent approaches, as long as it's well thought out, and isn't a nonsense like Mortal Kombat, or some episodes of Invincible/The Boys (where the goal was simply to show explicit scenes without any narrative depth, just to feed the edgy tastes of people who believe themselves to be emo/dark, cringe asf btw) but from what Scott Snyder said it won't be a bloody or violent story, just the characters fighting each other epically, like the Dragon Ball Power Tournament arc.
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More information about the "DC King Omega" event. It doesn't seem to be nearly as extreme as I feared, so it will probably be good.
DC's K.O. Doesn't Stand For Knockout But For King Omega
DC's K.O. doesn't stand for Knock Out but for King Omega... as well as more Absolute Universe comic books to come
bleedingcool.com
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Would anyone be mad if I collected every appearance of the Source Wall to see when it's described as a physical barrier and when it's a dimensional barrier beyond time? I was reading New Gods vol 3 and Jack Kirby's 4th World and they continuously refer to it as a dimensional barrier beyond space time and I wanna see how consistant it is
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Real quick
Jack Kirby's 4th World #12 by John Bryne says the entire universe is a dream of the Source. And NG and Apok are a dimension beyond human understanding
Jack Kirby's 4th World #12 by John Bryne says the entire universe is a dream of the Source. And NG and Apok are a dimension beyond human understanding
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Jesus Christ. I am halfway done and it's DEAD EVEN. Sometimes in the same storyline.
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It's not that much, 135 comics easy reading.
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So yeah. I finally finished and...... yeah.
It is DEAD even between being treated like an interdimensional higher vibratory realm beyond human dimensions that you can't actually get to without some kind of teleportation beyonf the multiverse and a physical barrier limiting normal space that you can fly to.
It's literally a coin flip though I noticed in Justice League and New Gods comics, it's the former more often and in Green Lantern and Superman comics, it's more likely to be the latter.
It is DEAD even between being treated like an interdimensional higher vibratory realm beyond human dimensions that you can't actually get to without some kind of teleportation beyonf the multiverse and a physical barrier limiting normal space that you can fly to.
It's literally a coin flip though I noticed in Justice League and New Gods comics, it's the former more often and in Green Lantern and Superman comics, it's more likely to be the latter.
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Is anyone planning to rehaul the cosmology currently? The plan to merge Vertigo into mainline was accepted, but the guy who made that thread left the wiki. Working on an outdated cosmology kind of kneecaps a lot of the efforts needed to revise the scaling chain and everything, so just wondering.
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Yes, @Elizio33's managing the majority of it in the background (bless this guy).
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I will attempt to merge the three cosmologies of our blog (Crisis, DeMatteis, Vertigo) into one. Anything that is still consistent and relevant to current representations of DC will be used, and the others, outdated and obsolete, will be removed.
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Some elements of J.M. DeMatteis's stories can be used, as he directly contributed to the DC continuity. His treatment of spiritual realms and symbolic journeys offers insights that can enrich the cosmology. However, his works generally fall within a more self-contained framework rather than a strict mapping of reality.I thought that DeMatteis' version is incompatible with the rest.
For this reason, DeMatteis’ ideas are best seen as complementary rather than fully integrated. The Divine Continuum, including the Multiverse, the Sphere of the Gods, the Dark Multiverse, Hypertime, Limbo, the Vanishing Point, and higher planes such as the Fifth and Sixth Dimensions and the Greater Omniverse, already has a defined canonical structure. DeMatteis’ vision can add depth to it, but his overall cosmology should remain distinct from the overarching one.
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I’m currently working on the unified DC cosmology, and I’m almost done. To my understanding, most of the current ratings should remain unchanged for now, with only a few exceptions and adjustments needed. Any further changes in the ratings can be handled later.
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I have a question. From my current understanding, the 1-A tiers, or at least the ones who reside in the material planes get nerfed when they enter them right? Does this apply to every 1-A being?
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Most of the higher beings get nerfed when they enter the lower planes.
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Does this also apply to to infinite frontier? Darkseid killed the quintessence and I'm pretty sure superman fought him in dark crisis, multiple of them fought the dark army which has 1-A beings unless they were also nerfed in the material plane. IIRC that was darkseid's true form despite being in the material plane? Does supes and the others get 1-A because of that also? The profile labels it as 6D for darkseid killing the quintessence which doesn't make sense to me unless I'm missing something.
MeiouHades
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You're welcome to try and downgrade it if you're so confident.
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In Infinite Frontier, Darkseid succeeded in restoring his true form, shattered since Final Crisis, by absorbing the fragments of his past selves and was powerful enough to kill the Quintessence. Yet during Dark Crisis, he was greatly weakened by Pariah’s manipulation through the Dark Army. Even then, what manifested was only Darkseid’s physical presence within material reality, not his true essence that exists as pure idea, like the other New Gods of the Sphere of the Gods. His true being is so vast that, when he once fell, his shadow stretched across the Multiverse. This could also apply to many inhabitants of the Sphere of the Gods.
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I think the Darkseid who fought Superman in Dark Crisis was completely weakened. The Darkseid from the Infinite Frontier comic was on a very different level. As you mentioned, Darkseid killed the members of the Quintessence, which included the Spectre.
Darkseid also fought the Empty Hand, which was a fragment of the Great Darkness, and managed to endure to some extent.
No, the heroes and Superman in their base form are not qualified as 1-A, at least not like that. Unless with amps or special versions and other methods, you could make Superman 1-A, but I still highly doubt it.
That needs to be corrected, it’s not accurate.
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I’d like your opinion on this: do you agree that the profiles of the Overvoid and the Void (Vertigo) should be merged into a single profile, representing the Void as it existed before Creation? My reasoning is that the Overvoid shouldn’t be conflated with the Light. The Light exists in duality with the Great Darkness and functions within the framework of God’s plan, whereas the Overvoid/Void is fundamentally non-dual and exists outside of that plan altogether.
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Thanks ant. What about the others ?That seems to make sense to me at least.
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To elaborate, the art style and narration in Justice League Incarnate #4 strongly contributed to this impression, particularly the line describing how the Great Darkness's scream “caused a flaw in the once immaculate perfection of the Light.” This phrasing evokes themes from Final Crisis and Multiversity, reinforcing the false idea that the Overvoid is identical to the Light.
I believe that while certain elements of Grant Morrison’s vision of the Overvoid have been retconned, such as its direct intervention with the Multiverse, the designation “Monitor-Mind The Overvoid,” its connection to the origins of the Monitors and Mandrakk, and Morrison’s claim that the Overvoid is identical to the Source, its fundamental nature remains intact. It still embodies the void before existence, the blank canvas, the primordial backdrop against which all of DC’s reality unfolds. It is most likely the same as the Void that Lucifer traveled through in Mike Carey’s Lucifer series, as both represent the same thing: the infinite and eternal nothingness before and outside creation.
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I’m not sure if I’m saying it correctly, but were Overvoid or Void considered as Mind Presence?
On the other hand, I think the definition of Overvoid and Void is quite different, If it doesn’t create a contradiction, this method is really good
What’s been on my mind is that the Monitor Sphere is considered a fragment of the Overvoid, as written on CAS’s page, and it was qualified as 1-A+, Likewise, the Upside-Down Man and the Empty Hand are also fragments of the Great Darkness.
Since they, just like CAS and the Dark Monitor, exist outside the Multiverse, or even, according to Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths, exist beyond the Overvoid itself, are they actually eligible for an upgrade?
Muteki616
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What kinda dialogue?
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OK, the Green Lanterns containing a Milky Way busting explosion was accepted here. I'm going to give a few supporting feats than Lanterns on the high end are this level:
The Green Lantern season 2 #5 Hyperman, who is rated as a Galaxy Destroyer and killed a fodder Lantern. Hal beat him solo to the point Hyperman called in backup, even after his wife sneak attacked him and damaged his ring first. It's also implied these sneak attacks on the rings when the Lanterns are off guard are the only way they can kill Lanterns. Implying Lanterns could take this guy if their rings aren't sneak attacked and killed.
For higher/max level feats for non Corpsmen
Green Lantern vol 2 #151 Quarzz Tenrah destroys a black hole that would have destroyed his sector:
The Flodo Span and Driq feat. By the way, Flodo survives it and doesn't die until GLC #224, same as Zombie Driq who is alive in the page and only dies in #223. In addition, John, Katma, Arissa, Kilowog and Olapet hold him off long enough for the two to seal him with Kat and John having done it by themselves for a long time.
For low ends and rookies, we have the planet and star level stuff such as:
Even a Rookie who just got his ring that day destroys an artificial Black Hole casually.
John and company (Katma, Arissa, Kilowog, Flodo, Driq) survive a black hole that was sucking in planets and stars
The planet exploding on John and co, who are unharmed by a planet exploding on their faces.
Autoshields protect the two Johns (John and J'ohn) from a planetary explosion then an antimatter Star explosion
Rookie Kyle (Pre Circle of Fire) contains a super nova
Two rookies survive a supernova and then a Black Hole.
The Green Lantern season 2 #5 Hyperman, who is rated as a Galaxy Destroyer and killed a fodder Lantern. Hal beat him solo to the point Hyperman called in backup, even after his wife sneak attacked him and damaged his ring first. It's also implied these sneak attacks on the rings when the Lanterns are off guard are the only way they can kill Lanterns. Implying Lanterns could take this guy if their rings aren't sneak attacked and killed.
For higher/max level feats for non Corpsmen
Green Lantern vol 2 #151 Quarzz Tenrah destroys a black hole that would have destroyed his sector:
The Flodo Span and Driq feat. By the way, Flodo survives it and doesn't die until GLC #224, same as Zombie Driq who is alive in the page and only dies in #223. In addition, John, Katma, Arissa, Kilowog and Olapet hold him off long enough for the two to seal him with Kat and John having done it by themselves for a long time.
For low ends and rookies, we have the planet and star level stuff such as:
Even a Rookie who just got his ring that day destroys an artificial Black Hole casually.
John and company (Katma, Arissa, Kilowog, Flodo, Driq) survive a black hole that was sucking in planets and stars
The planet exploding on John and co, who are unharmed by a planet exploding on their faces.
Autoshields protect the two Johns (John and J'ohn) from a planetary explosion then an antimatter Star explosion
Rookie Kyle (Pre Circle of Fire) contains a super nova
Two rookies survive a supernova and then a Black Hole.
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I don't think this contradicts anything since the Void and the Overvoid both represent fundamentally the same thing, the infinite and eternal nothingness before and outside of space, time and creation.
Regarding the idea that the Void might be the mind of God, I wouldn’t describe this as the Presence, since the Presence is more accurately understood as being the same as the Source. In DC cosmology, God with capital "G" is not explicitly named or defined beyond titles such as the Creator or the Unknowable. This ultimate principle is portrayed as existing above all else, non-dual, immutable, and transcendent. It is the One who designed everything: from the birth of Existence itself to the coming of the Great Darkness, which was implied to be part of the plan from the very beginning. Darkseid, an aspect of the Great Darkness, functions as a cosmic constant whose role, described by the Spectre as “divine” and “essential,” is to challenge and restrain creation, preventing unbridled expansion. The Source is suggested to be a direct manifestation of the Creator’s infinite power, and everything, even the Void, exists within this totality. This is why the line, “the universe is a distraction in the mind of God,” supports the idea of the Void being understood as God’s own mind.
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Thank you for taking the time to answer my question, I really appreciate it
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Regarding your last question, the Monitor Sphere is now understood as being shaped from the structure of the current universe. It still lies at the furthest edges of reality (Divine Continuum), where concepts such as time, space, and scale take on deeper meaning. Yet higher planes have since been revealed, such as the Sixth Dimension. Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths seemed to suggest, through its narration and artistic style, that the Overvoid might be equated with the Light. This, however, is a misreading. The Overvoid, or Void, should not be identified with either the Light or the Darkness. Rather, it is the transparent, formless blankness of nothingness upon which Creation itself is written. It can also be understood as the vast emptiness in which the Great Darkness resides, the backdrop against which all light, story, and existence unfold.Thank you for taking the time to answer my question, I really appreciate it
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Yeah, half of those feats are wrong or weird.
Being an "intergalactic class" destroyer isn't the same as being a Galaxy destroyer, it only means that he's an intergalactic threat.
The other feats are just black holes, and we know how those work.
And that supernova that Kyle contained wasn't a real one, lmao.
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That's not what it says. It literally says "Galaxy plus class super destroyer" not "Intergalactic class destroyer". As we've said before, without any contradiction, we have to take it literally, since that's what those words literally mean. If you have a statement from the comics that he's not literally destroying galaxies, post it. Like, I sincerely do not get this argument. If you saw someone listed as a "planet plus class Super destroyer," we'd agree until we had statements to the contrary, he'd be treated as a planet destroyer. Plus it makes no sense for Green Lantern Season 2, a comic run about Hal tapping into higher and higher levels of his ring to prepare for the Ultrawar, to go from Hal fighting an Omega level species on the Kardashev scale, down to something weaker, then back up to fighting The Anti-Matter Man, his own death, the Golden Destoryer (a universe ender) then the Ultrawar.
"The Supernova Kyle contained wasn't a real one" Solaris literally has properties of a real star and was explictly working like a real supernova that would explictly act like a red giant star and destroy the solar system. Him being an artificial star doesn't negate that.
As for "the rest are Black holes and we know how those work". That is not true. You only addressed Kyle and Hyperman. There's Seven feats after that, only three and a half are black holes. Flodo Span and Driq, John and J'ohn, the Corps tanking a planet exploding with them on it, the rookies tanking a supernova (and the resulting Black hole) aren't Black Hole feats (the rookies is, but only after tanking the supernova first).
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It says galactic level, not the same as literally a galaxy buster. If so, show me a scan of him actually destroying a galaxy, something that supports your evidence of it being an actual galaxy buster just because it was called a galactic destroyer, especially since that can also be used as a level of devastation so big that reaches galactic levels.
That'd only mean he can devastate planet, not literally disappearing them, reason why some feats are interpreted like that.
Not the point remotely.
If you really think that having the same density as a star means having the same mass, which is completely necessary to have a solar system level of destruction, you're completely wrong.
Solaris wasn't as big as a star, meaning he wasn't as strong as a supernova.
And funny you mention this as support evidence, since Kyle almost suffered an hemorrhage from the effort, needing Superman to come to his aid.
What a support evidence for the Tier 3 to need help to contain a Tier 4 energy.
Two tier 4 and tier 5, great.
And if we go by this, there are more than enough anti feats of that.
