- 237
- 144
Wow, they couldn't choose a worse first line up than that one.
They really recommend all of DC eras, scaling them would be more of a pain in the ass now.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
General DC Comics Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Confluctor
- Start date
-
- Tags
- dc comics
They really recommend all of DC eras, scaling them would be more of a pain in the ass now.
- 110
- 78
Tier should be: varies (normally 5-B ~ 4-B) full power (highest feats) 3-A ~ 2-C
And we all happy, this conversation is nosense, you can't just ignore the big feats, just as you can't ignore the smaller feats, so a balanced profile made on both sides should be done, that with both DC and Marvel. 'cause I can cite countless inconsistencies about Hulk 1-A and Thor, just as you are quoting several anti feats on Superman and wonder woman, and it becomes an endless discussion.
A separate thread should be made otherwise we're just arguing to nothing
Instances where they are 1-A should also be mentioned in the profiles tho, obviously with all the due context and clarification about the external powers that the character had at that specific moment.
And we all happy, this conversation is nosense, you can't just ignore the big feats, just as you can't ignore the smaller feats, so a balanced profile made on both sides should be done, that with both DC and Marvel. 'cause I can cite countless inconsistencies about Hulk 1-A and Thor, just as you are quoting several anti feats on Superman and wonder woman, and it becomes an endless discussion.
A separate thread should be made otherwise we're just arguing to nothing
Instances where they are 1-A should also be mentioned in the profiles tho, obviously with all the due context and clarification about the external powers that the character had at that specific moment.
- 6,640
- 3,533
I feel like loads of people should upscale to 4-B via Cyborg Superman too since he has a direct 4-B feat
- 845
- 1,169
I'm fine with this, although I maintain that tier 3 to tier 2 should be a possibly rating given the anti-feats (which is standard for other verses iirc). Essentially "Varies (argument for their varying power level and inconsistent scaling): At least 5-B ~ 4-A (insert assortment of feats), possibly 2-C (mention the higher ends feats)".
Also, for comic characters where they can be comfortably scaled using their own feats, I think we should stop listing all the potential scaling chains they benefit from (leave that for another section) as when you look at comic book character profiles it's often just a bulking paragraph of them hurting other characters that drag you down a 20-profile scaling chain. Non-DC character example but Marvel street tiers (notably Spider-Man related characters) are especially egregious here where everyone is essentially apart of one big circular scaling chain and the actual feat itself only exists on the Marvel verse page.
I can't think of any 1-A feat for JL members where they aren't amped, so we can / should give extra keys for that but I wouldn't support it being on their default keys.
- 763
- 902
Yes, it’s Waid bending over backwards to maintain that the N52 wasn’t a total failure and at least has to have one contribution to continuity when everything else from this book is pre-crisis, post-crisis and some doomsday clock mixed together, which obviously alienates his whole “every canon matters!” narrative.
I don’t like it though.
Muteki616
He/Him- 658
- 258
The common sense of DC and Marvel regarding power systems is that their lowkey isn't one, and these characters can perform whatever feat necessary.
Thor's speech in Immortal Thor kinda encompasses this perfectly.
Most of the heroes do not struggle when it's time for them to rise to the occasion against Tier 2 or higher threats.
There's just as much feats and explanations as there are "anti-feats."
Marvel heroes scale better to their hierarchy than DC ngl.For the record, I don't mind the 2-C tiers. It is the insane tiers for regular superheroes of 1-A or similar that I find ridiculous, but that is a much bigger problem for our Marvel pages than for our DC pages.
Knull, a celestial-level threat, was consistently pressed by herald tiers in the narrative.
Not really.
When writing comics, it isn't "random bullshit go" all the time.
There are certain "tiers" and showcases that they (editorial) want their characters in.
Hardly anybody in fiction is...
DC/Marvel are always going to focus on their narrative over what their characters can and can't destroy.
We get countless statements from authors and characters (so authors again) stating their characters will scale and perform they needed depending on the situation.
I agree with giving them "varies" but ignoring their higher scaling, which is usually get performed casually or powercliffed, is disingenuous.
You're giving Animanga too much credence.
DC and Marvel (at least) are more consistent than you give them credit for.
DBS, since it's mentioned, has one Universal feat that gets chainscaled to evb despite the 2-3 galaxy level anti-feats (more arc) later on in the series and the multiple planetary ones.
Very much true for the Anime community
Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, DBZ, and Super are all stellar tier based on one or two feats despite the countless other anti-feats they have.
I understand your position of you believing the anti-feats outweigh the high-end ones, but I'm just pointing that if we lowkey do it for one/two verse(s) we'd have to do it for everyone and Kratos will cap at planetary if we do.
- 528
- 480
I didn't understand what happened to him, he was supposed to "die" when he destroyed the TDK earths but in another comic it is seen that he was defeated and the earths were still there.
- 845
- 1,169
DBS Anime does have several tier 2 feats, not just one, and what anti-feats exist in DBS to contradict tier 2 scaling?
I do think Kratos needs a downscale, actually.
Muteki616
He/Him- 658
- 258
They'll probably explain next month.
But he does get his perfect world after destroying TDK's dark multiverse.
Animanga*
And the DBS anime has like one feat after the Beerus clash and a single statement for tier 2.
DBS manga has had like 2-3 Galaxy-level cap implications.
The Manga should NOT be as high as it is.
- 999
- 2,145
You know in hindsight the end of Death Metal was pretty funny. You have Wonder Woman having to do all this cosmic shit just to match the Darkest Knight and kill him via the anti story sun or whatever just for Prime to straight up beat Knight’s ass in a tie in comic. Literally the only reason that Knight didn’t die then and there is because Prime chose to sacrifice himself instead.
- 528
- 480
I hope they explain it, because sbp fighting TDK is not compatible with diana fighting TDK.
Most likely they simply made chronological mistakes between both fights.
- 237
- 144
Even when this is not the thread to discuss that, I heavily agree with DBs manga being Galaxy lvl instead of Tier 2 or higher 3.
- 177,363
- 90,219
He redeemed himself by sacrificing himself for a good cause, so he was rewarded by The Hands (or the DC Comics writers) by finally being allowed to go home again with a true fresh start where he could be a sole hero for his world as originally intended. But now he is back again, likely in order to be killed off and mentally violated to show how dangerous Darkseid's Legion is.
Muteki616
He/Him- 658
- 258
Wdym?
Muteki616
He/Him- 658
- 258
Prime could've and would've absorbed every ounce of TDK's power in that moment.
I believe it.
- 535
- 334
DBS Anime has 2-3 Tier 2 feat, and sooo many statements
DBS manga has 1-2 Tier 2 feat and again several statements
This kind of example seems weird in this title
- 845
- 1,169
Well DBS is far shorter than DC comics, so if you're using this as a 'look at how many feats Superman has vs Goku' it's already a disingenuous exercise.
You're missing the issue of quality. You think DBS manga having two tier 3 implications (Zamasu stating his power is enough to wipe out a galaxy and Moro's self-destruction threatening the destruction of all galaxies) is enough to outweigh Goku's raw punches almost destroying a cosmology structure composed of multiple universe-sized spacetimes - so let's establish that as the standard of evidence. What do you think that then says about the Justice League who not only have countless statements of villains and power sources 'having the power to destroy x celestial object' but also direct anti-feats? DC's anti-feats are more severe in how explicit and narrative significant they are.
- 528
- 480
For example, in secret origin sbp destroyed the last 52 earths but in the issue where diana fights tdk, sbp is already defeated but the 52 earths are still there.
- 999
- 2,145
Clearly the answer is that SBP retconned himself out of that god awful event all together with that final punch
- 297
- 121
This is literally all I was advocating for, literally just what the site does, ergo a consistent section and a max section, instead of capping them off at 5-B to 4-B, idk why that was hard to understand at all for some people. Thank you
- 297
- 121
I literally haven't said anything since Tuesday, but no worries this will he my last interaction with this threadFroYoSans, please stop spamming and being oversensitive about characters being downgraded, and Stolp, stop being rude.
Figure I'll post my last reply to this specifically just to clear things up:
1. I admitted to having an agenda, I'm aware of it, I admit to being biased and a fanboy. That however doesn't mean I can't also be telling the truth, and the truth is simply that they don't cap at the 4B tier, and that I haven't even been advocating for the heroes to be upgraded to crazy tiers, simply that we do what the site always does which is seperate from consistency and their max output, which you seem to agree with unless I say it for some reason
2. Yeah because what you're doing is all of that to me, what you're saying is true, they all have an assortment of 5-B feats and sense of struggling with such, however it IS disingenuous to cap them there or even at 4B because that's simply not true, and you saying they should be is inherently disrespectful to me
3. I never said you didn't love these characters, I never said you didn't know anything about them, and I also never said I needed them to be Gods to be interesting, I mean some of my favorite stories are from the Silver Age which involve Flash fighting sentient clouds who were responsible for the world's Earthquakes, that's pretty "non-godlike" as was most of the Silver Age for The Flash. Idk what misconceptions you have to think I need this characters to be God's to consider them interesting, I wouldn't read their comics if that were the case. Because what I'm saying is you're being "disrespectful and dishonest" to me specifically, that's explictly subjective not objective
4. Sounds good talk again never. Though I am glad we seem to agree on the tiers just being separated from consistency to max
- 763
- 902
Hopefully this is not a wasted effort…
vsbattles.com
The Great Sisyphean Quest to Improve DC Comics [Part 1]
Some big things first: All herald 2-Cs scale to 52 universes through Barbatos, even pre-crisis 2-Cs, because of the instance in Barbatos’ AP justification involving the weakening of the 52 universes in the Orrery. This scaling is due to Death Metal Superman knocking out Barbatos with one punch...
Muteki616
He/Him- 658
- 258
Show those.
No, I'm saying the logic applied here can and should be applied everywhere else.
Moro isn't stated to destroy all galaxies; it's just a galaxy using his full output.
Yes, it should be enough. Goku was going to die as a result of shockwaves that were stronger than they were at the epicenter.
Yea idk.
Maybe in one of the other tie-ins like "The Last 52" they explain it.
- 535
- 334
six/seven plus statements + one feat
Feat + Statement
Statement One. 4 Statements. Statement Two (Kefla says she can blow away an entire universe)
There is Infinite Zamasu who shows Tier 2 feat and Jiren is above him
Statement + Feat
- 110
- 78
"Six/seven" buddy we're just seeing one feat, and debunking the debunks
and that thread wasn't even accepted in the first place. But anyways this isn't a topic to discuss here
- 845
- 1,169
If anything the inverse is true here; in my response I accepted your conditions (1 tier 2 feat vs 2 tier 3 non-limiting statements means a character is capped at tier 3) and said if we should therefore apply the same to Superman only being tier 5 and you didn't even answer that question, you just replied by harping on the DB anti-feats. Do you want to apply this standard consistently or not? Because if you want to reply to comic downgrades by bringing up manga we can all bite that bullet, but I doubt you'd bite the bullet for your side either - instead you just wanna shift the goalpost here to debating about manga scaling on a DC discussion thread.
This isn't the place to debate it but you can google what “銀河ごと” means. Further, you said the anime continuity for DBS, neither Moro nor the Zamasu statement is in the anime. So what point exactly is to be made from this? Where's the comparison between DBS and DC here?
Again, not the place to discuss this, but this is a very disingenuous argument which has been debunked over and over again in threads.
- 845
- 1,169
you can have a disagreement without it being a CRT
- 763
- 902
Sure, but I just wanted to know; if something like that was planned it would probably conflict with the scheduling of what I’m trying to revise right now.
- 845
- 1,169
my bad I thought you were implying we ought to end the conversation unless it is a CRT since I've had people do that before in other general discussion threads. I'm not aware of any planned downgrade CRT nor do I have the time rn to organise one.
- 177,363
- 90,219
I would like us to dissect the Marvel cosmology as well, given that the 1-A characters there definitely do not seem to remotely approach that scale of power within the actual stories, and we seem to stack several unrelated different interpretations on top of each other to reach those tiers, not to mention all of the chain-scaling, but it currently seems more difficult to disentangle that mess.
- 16,258
- 24,924
Super Sonic looks pretty rad in the Sonic x DC finale
- 110
- 78
Has the new Superman's feat resisting the pull of the black hole already been calculated?
5-B DCU
5-B DCU
- 845
- 1,169
James Gunn said blue beetle is inside the DCU, so Superman's statement of being the strongest metahuman also suggests he's tier 5 so it's consistentHas the new Superman's feat resisting the pull of the black hole already been calculated?
5-B DCU
- 6,640
- 3,533
Wait since when is Blue Beetle Tier 5?
