General DC Comics Discussion Thread

[PromptedElephant641]

Given how popular of characters Wally and Barry are, it is surprising that the speed section on their profiles for both Post-Crisis and Rebirth kind of suck. They have so many speed feats and yet practically none are given. There should be a wall of text with feats ranging from running through time, between universes, between dimensions, and when time is stopped as well as many other such examples of immeasurable speed.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

Im not saying Superman is FASTER but he's certainly not losing out to Wally.

I mean it kinda depend on story to story. Here even on superman turf that is space itself where Superman has little to no friction he still has no shot of landing a single hit on wally who is just a mindless beast right now. You can argue superman was holding back or if sun dipped he can match him but still this is mindless wally in superman turf.

His power was describe to kill every living human within the time it take to sneeze and he can go through gods like butter. Even in his current state he don't do that because he is too nice.

They use extra dimensional god tech to land a hit on wally in space that was fighting superman and he still dodge it by moving out of story. His limits do not exist same as superman.

 

[Quickmia]

I mean it kinda depend on story to story. Here even on superman turf that is space itself where Superman has little to no friction he still has no shot of landing a single hit on wally who is just a mindless beast right now. You can argue superman was holding back or if sun dipped he can match him but still this is mindless wally in superman turf.

His power was describe to kill every living human within the time it take to sneeze and he can go through gods like butter.

They use extra dimensional god tech to land a hit on wally in space that was fighting superman and he still dodge it by moving out of story. His limits do not exist same as superman from that one story.

Is there any context for those scans? Wally doesn't seem to be very... Wally-ish (aside from the mindless beast part). Even then, Clark is just too durable for Wally to put him down + passive plot hax and Clark can just turn him into mist with a single punch. And again, Wally at his FASTEST. Again, direct quote from Wally at his FASTEST.

"On my earth, I wouldn't even try something as suicidal as taking down Superman."

All those statements about Wally going through Gods like butter can be applied to a not holding back Superman as well. Superman is explicitely = to Darkseid at his peak (without amps such as Spectre, etc.) as per the DC All In Special.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

Is there any context for those scans? Wally doesn't seem to be very... Wally-ish (aside from the mindless beast part). Even then, Clark is just too durable for Wally to put him down + passive plot hax and Clark can just turn him into mist with a single punch. And again, Wally at his FASTEST. Again, direct quote from Wally at his FASTEST.

"On my earth, I wouldn't even try something as suicidal as taking down Superman."

All those statements about Wally going through Gods like butter can be applied to a not holding back Superman as well. Superman is explicitely = to Darkseid at his peak (without amps such as Spectre, etc.) as per the DC All In Special.

Eclipso fuel Wally with all his hate and rage. Wally is just being nice here and ofcourse those punches wont hurt superman here Wally is in space its superman turf if wally was on his sense those would infinite mass punches on him and he simply wouldnt try to fight superman in space at all.

Second if superman has no chance of landing hit Wally in space who is not in his senses why would you think in fair battle he would?

Lastly Superman has no answer to Wally moving out of the story and rectonning him hurting him in some way or dumping him in speedforce(sure he may get out after sometime but it wont be a pleasing time) or stealing all kinetic energy off him and make him a statue.

Even way back in post criss era Wally in his fight agains Hunter zolomon operate on hypertime where he is invisible to even superman. I will find a scan if saw it here.

 

[Quickmia]

Eclipso fuel Wally with all his hate and rage. Wally is just being nice here and ofcourse those punches wont hurt superman here Wally is in space its superman turf if wally was on his sense those would infinite mass punches on him and he simply wouldnt try to fight superman in space at all..

So a massively amped Wally?

Second if superman has no chance of landing hit Wally in space who is not in his senses why would you think in fair battle he would?

Clark was very explicitly holding back there and wasn't even there TO fight. Idk who's saying that statement but I highly doubt they've actually seen Superman NOT holding back or going 100% because he VERY rarely does it and only does so against characters like Darkseid when he's

Lastly Superman has no answer to Wally moving out of the story and rectonning him hurting him in some way or dumping him in speedforce(sure he may get out after sometime but it wont be a pleasing time) or stealing all kinetic energy off him and make him a statue.

Even way back in post criss era Wally in his fight agains Hunter zolomon operate on hypertime where he is invisible to even superman. I will find a scan if saw it here.

There's an entire event and a B plot in a crisis event dedicated to the fact you can't retcon Superman. Doomsday Clock and Superman: Beyond. Clark has showings of being resistant to energy absorption. Superman literally punched out of Hypertime.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

Post crsis Wally vs Zoom
Wally after slealing all of the speed of speedsters made in to zoom world.

Even post crisis Superman second weakest they say after N52 was frozen in time

Post crisis Wally is brutal he froze Zoom in time and made a statue for display

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

So a massively amped Wally?



Clark was very explicitly holding back there and wasn't even there TO fight. Idk who's saying that statement but I highly doubt they've actually seen Superman NOT holding back or going 100% because he VERY rarely does it and only does so against characters like Darkseid when he's


There's an entire event and a B plot in a crisis event dedicated to the fact you can't retcon Superman. Doomsday Clock and Superman: Beyond. Clark has showings of being resistant to energy absorption. Superman literally punched out of Hypertime.

No he was not amped he was imbued with all the hate and rage to kill all beings on earth by eclipso saddist nature as he is throwing tantrum because of his loss against the Darksied somehow.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

A few years back someone guy made a blog offsite where they read through literally ever Superman comic and documented the feats. Does anyone remember where to find this or have a link? I hope it wasn’t deleted that would be a shame.

 

[Quickmia]

No he was not amped he was imbued with all the hate and rage to kill all beings on earth by eclipso saddist nature as he is throwing tantrum because of his loss against the Darksied somehow.

He literally shot Wally up full of abstract concepts in the page you sent.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

He literally shot Wally up full of abstract concepts in the page you sent.

Its not a amp its just redirecting rage and hate towards him. Read the issue its Flash 2023 #14 its where start from.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

So a massively amped Wally?



Clark was very explicitly holding back there and wasn't even there TO fight. Idk who's saying that statement but I highly doubt they've actually seen Superman NOT holding back or going 100% because he VERY rarely does it and only does so against characters like Darkseid when he's


There's an entire event and a B plot in a crisis event dedicated to the fact you can't retcon Superman. Doomsday Clock and Superman: Beyond. Clark has showings of being resistant to energy absorption. Superman literally punched out of Hypertime.

He is also not immune to all type energy absorbption. And Wally not only steal speed but entire motion itself the kinetic energy. One time Hal even beat/restrained post crisis superman through energy absorbtion.
Though not sure about current one but he should still be effect by speed steal and kinetic energy.(Talking about regular superman not KO superman or sun dipped)

 

[Quickmia]

Its not a amp its just redirecting rage and hate towards him. Read the issue its Flash 2023 #14 its where start from.

I feel like shooting up someone with abstract concepts from the guy who's explicitely God's Wrath is an amp.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Is it really necessary to keep arguing about Superman? While Wally, Barry, and other speedster do not typically use the full extent of their capabilities, the reality is when they do, they are immeasurably more powerful than Superman as they are powered by The Speed Force.

Superman is not going to be upgraded simply for fighting Wally West. Many character deeply respect Superman and put him on a pedestal besides. There have been countless statements made by more powerful heroes stating that they wouldn’t want to fight Superman, that they don’t think they could beat Superman, or that they think Superman’s capabilities are greater than their own. This does not actually mean that Superman is superior to these characters.

At this point, at least for Post-Crisis continuity, all of Superman’s attack potency feats have been milked dry and there is nothing left to find to tier him that much higher than he currently is. If anyone actually is serious about upgrading Superman in any capacity, they should be looking into his speed feats as he likely has some undocumented immeasurable speed feats in Post-Crisis continuity and beyond. That is why I was asking if anyone knew where that all encompassing Superman feats blog is as I am sure it is a treasure trove of Superman speed feats.

 

[Quickmia]

Is it really necessary to keep arguing about Superman? While Wally, Barry, and other speedster do not typically use the full extent of their capabilities, the reality is when they do, they are immeasurably more powerful than Superman as they are powered by The Speed Force.

They literally would be incapable of killing him, regardless of the extent to which they used their abilities to. Clark is comparable to Prime who required the entire Speed Force to get imprisoned.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

They literally would be incapable of killing him, regardless of the extent to which they used their abilities to. Clark is comparable to Prime who required the entire Speed Force to get imprisoned.

Maybe if he is sun dipped in white star and throw recton punch like prime otherwise he is nowhere close to prime. Superman was insignificant in the fight against Darkest Knight.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Saying that Superman scales to Superboy Prime is not a good way to build credibility. Superboy Prime is a unique character with unique mechanisms. Regular old Superman simply isn’t on his level.

Debating Superman being 1A or above is a waste of time. It is not consistent and is entirely unreasonable. We all know it is never gong to happen on this website. Bringing it up over and over again is not going to change anything.

 

[Quickmia]

Saying that Superman scales to Superboy Prime is not a good way to build credibility. Superboy Prime is a unique character with unique mechanisms. Regular old Superman simply isn’t on his level.

Debating Superman being 1A or above is a waste of time. It is not consistent and is entirely unreasonable. We all know it is never gong to happen on this website. Bringing it up over and over again is not going to change anything.

No one's saying anything about Superman being 1-A

 

[Rozeyroze]

Saying that Superman scales to Superboy Prime is not a good way to build credibility. Superboy Prime is a unique character with unique mechanisms. Regular old Superman simply isn’t on his level.

Debating Superman being 1A or above is a waste of time. It is not consistent and is entirely unreasonable. We all know it is never gong to happen on this website. Bringing it up over and over again is not going to change anything.

(he is but thats a discussion for a different site, remember post crisis supes was star level on here a few years back LOL) superman was seen as the only hope against king omega darkseid by the time trapper while prime was right next to him, implying that prime wasnt on that level.