Gaunter O'Dimm : Tier Upgrade?

[CrisisCrysis]

So I found this description on a Discord server. It was there on the GWENT website 2 days before Master Mirror's GWENT expansion pack's trailer launched, after which it was updated. What tier would this be and does this qualify for plot manip.? Does this mean the Man of Glass behind the Conjunction of Spheres, the cataclysm which merged infinite universes to create the Witcher world? What do you guys think about this?

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Bump.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Bump.

 

[Rez]

This is some tier 1 stuff but you will first need to prove that this scan was actually there and is not just some random edit

The current description on the site might qualify for plot manip but no tier upgrades

Spoiler: The current description

YOUR FATE IS IN HIS HANDS!
He’s always been there, quietly pulling at fate’s strings, his evil touch creeping its way into key events in the Continent’s history. From the Empire of Nilfgaard, to the Northern Realms, to the isles of Skellige and beyond, his influence knows no bounds. You may be tempted to try to defy the diabolical trickster, but in the end all will play by his rules and all will bend to his will. He is Master Mirror, and it is he who decides how the story plays out.

Master Mirror

Play GWENT — a strategy card game of choices and consequences, where skill, not luck, is your greatest weapon.

www.playgwent.com

Also he should receive mind manip or some really good social influence for this

 

[Jackpact]

Don't know about the higher D thing but plot manip sound fine.

Also the clip above could be social influence since he tend to talk and lie to people more and only use magic to fulfill the target wish or to get them hooked on to signing the contract, would also fit his characters since using magic to get his way would be too boring for him.

 

[KLOL506]

Plot manip is fine but not sure about the higher-D stuff, discuss it with Ultima Reality.

 

[SpookyShadow]

i left a long time ago but gotta do this for ma boy @KLOL506 and as that witcher guy

i see nothing wrong with plot manipulation, don't really care for higher d stuff and i'm certainly not someone familiar with it so.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Don't know about the higher D thing but plot manip sound fine.

Also the clip above could be social influence since he tend to talk and lie to people more and only use magic to fulfill the target wish or to get them hooked on to signing the contract, would also fit his characters since using magic to get his way would be too boring for him.

The description literally states he has been controlling how the story plays out in the Witcher world since forever, and the video seems to imply that he knew the future consequences of that whisper and did all that on purpose. He seems to have some role in the Nilfgaardian Usurper as well. So insane mind manip., precognition and plot manip.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

This is some tier 1 stuff but you will first need to prove that this scan was actually there and is not just some random edit

The current description on the site might qualify for plot manip but no tier upgrades

Spoiler: The current description

YOUR FATE IS IN HIS HANDS!
He’s always been there, quietly pulling at fate’s strings, his evil touch creeping its way into key events in the Continent’s history. From the Empire of Nilfgaard, to the Northern Realms, to the isles of Skellige and beyond, his influence knows no bounds. You may be tempted to try to defy the diabolical trickster, but in the end all will play by his rules and all will bend to his will. He is Master Mirror, and it is he who decides how the story plays out.

Master Mirror

Play GWENT — a strategy card game of choices and consequences, where skill, not luck, is your greatest weapon.

www.playgwent.com

Also he should receive mind manip or some really good social influence for this

It should most likely be real because Chrome can't be used with an incorrect date-time. If someone actually tries to change his/her P.C.'s date and time (for forging a fake scan) in order to change a website's text using inspect element, that isn't really possible. You can try it.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

I added another scan of the same website which was on the server.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Bump.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

BUMP

 

[CrisisCrysis]

@Ultima_Reality

 

[Rez]

@Ultima_Reality

Normal memeber can't tag you will need to tell them on their wall

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Normal memeber can't tag you will need to tell them on their wall

I told him.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

BUMP.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Bump...

 

[CrisisCrysis]

BUMP!!!

 

[Rez]

This screen shots are unfortunately edited it seems I went on way back machine and twitter
This tweet is from June 3 2020


And this is the very same web page from June 22 2020

Master Mirror

Play GWENT — a strategy card game of choices and consequences, where skill, not luck, is your greatest weapon.

web.archive.org

Master mirror card came out on June 30 2020 so no tier 1 stuff for him
Plot manip and social influence are still fair game though

 

[CrisisCrysis]

This screen shots are unfortunately edited it seems I went on way back machine and twitter
This tweet is from June 3 2020


And this is the very same web page from June 22 2020

Master Mirror

Play GWENT — a strategy card game of choices and consequences, where skill, not luck, is your greatest weapon.

web.archive.org

Master mirror card came out on June 30 2020 so no tier 1 stuff for him
Plot manip and social influence are still fair game though

The screenshots are from June 1, 2020 though. I just checked and the wayback machine has no data before 22nd June, 2020.

And as the owner of the screenshots said, 2 days later the description was updated when the announcement trailer dropped (on 3rd June, 2020).

And it couldn't be fake anyway since Chrome can't be used with an incorrect date-time.

Seems enough proof for it to be real though.

1. Chrome can't even be used with an incorrect date-time, let alone inspect element using it.
2. The Wayback machine has no data of the website before 22nd June, 2020. So we can't really use it to prove what was there on the site on June 1, 2020.
3. The description, as per the owner, was changed on 3rd June, 2020 after the trailer dropped.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

This screen shots are unfortunately edited it seems I went on way back machine and twitter
This tweet is from June 3 2020


And this is the very same web page from June 22 2020

Master Mirror

Play GWENT — a strategy card game of choices and consequences, where skill, not luck, is your greatest weapon.

web.archive.org

Master mirror card came out on June 30 2020 so no tier 1 stuff for him
Plot manip and social influence are still fair game though

Also, I asked the owner out regarding this, and he said that he kinda knew people would raise up such questions in the future (when the description was updated 2 days later and there was no data on the Wayback machine of before 22nd June, 2020), so he actually downloaded the page's H.T.M.L. later that day (1st June, 2020) and screenshotted it (showing the date and time):-

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Bump.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

BUMP!

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Things such as retcons sadly exist and if that page no longer exists then we can not longer use it. Tho as it stands, i agree with Spooky and KLOL, plot manipulation seems to be fair but not sure about the tier 1 stuff (I am not even wanting him to go over there)

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Things such as retcons sadly exist and if that page no longer exists then we can not longer use it. Tho as it stands, i agree with Spooky and KLOL, plot manipulation seems to be fair but not sure about the tier 1 stuff (I am not even wanting him to go over there)

Even the current description should put him at 2-B or 2-A, as it's stated that in the description of the expansion's trailer and implied in the video that he's the one behind all the events in the Witcher world. That includes the Conjunction of Spheres, a cataclysm which merged infinite universes to create the Witcher world.

It's a retcon only when stuff which are established are disregarded in the future. In G.O.D.'s case, they don't seem to be disregarded. The description is just changed and made more "brief".

And if you remember, God of War C.R.T.'s used a scan from the islandofrhodes.org, which no longer exists. So if other franchise's pages and C.R.T.'s use older stuff (which is no longer accessible), we can do the same for the Witcher.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Bump.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Bump.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Bump.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Alright been thinking about this for while. Everyone agrees on one thing, plot manipulation, because there is enough evidence for it to be supported and adding it wouldn't hurt but the other stuff is now a bit different.

As the scan says, the gaunter we saw is just an avatar meaning that we have to create two different keys for him, the one for the avatar and one for his true self which i find no problem with. The scan itself says so, but the tier is now a bit problematic because as soon as we touch the tier 1 territory, people will be pulling bullshit out of oxygen particles for literally anything, even tho the scan itself more so implies for a high 1-B tier than 2-A.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

I am unconvinced the text is genuine.

It is possible to turn off Chrome's SSL warnings including the one about time/date disparity. It is possible to edit the date attributes of a html file (we can even bring an unrelated html file and rename it into "Master Mirror"), and then show case the properties of the html with edited date next to the website that got inspect element'd. etc. It can certainly be fake, and it wouldn't take much effort to fake it.

The scan and context behind it is shady and raises a lot of questions:

How did the guy find the link promoting an expansion that was not announced yet?
If the link was publicly leaked, then where are the people discussing it back then?
If it was not publicly available and he somehow found it, then why not tell others about it back then? What is strange is that he supposedly took a screenshot and downloaded a html because he was worried others wouldn't believe him in the future (he can just show them the link in the present and everyone will believe him in the future... did he have precognition that the content will disappear?)... Why not share the link in social media back then or archive it online? That would make it super-easy to believe both in the present and future.
Even if he somehow got a link that is not publically available and kept it a secret, what exists in that link differs greatly from the final product and it was not meant to be seen by the public, so at most that is a non-canon rough draft.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

I am unconvinced the text is genuine.

It is possible to turn off Chrome's SSL warnings including the one about time/date disparity. It is possible to edit the date attributes of a html file (we can even bring an unrelated html file and rename it into "Master Mirror"), and then show case the properties of the html with edited date next to the website that got inspect element'd. etc. It can certainly be fake, and it wouldn't take much effort to fake it.

The scan and context behind it is shady and raises a lot of questions:

How did the guy find the link promoting an expansion that was not announced yet?
If the link was publicly leaked, then where are the people discussing it back then?
If it was not publicly available and he somehow found it, then why not tell others about it back then? What is strange is that he supposedly took a screenshot and downloaded a html because he was worried others wouldn't believe him in the future (he can just show them the link in the present and everyone will believe him in the future... did he have precognition that the content will disappear?)... Why not share the link in social media back then or archive it online? That would make it super-easy to believe both in the present and future.
Even if he somehow got a link that is not publically available and kept it a secret, what exists in that link differs greatly from the final product and it was not meant to be seen by the public, so at most that is a non-canon rough draft.

Nope. You can try it. You'll get a time crawl error if you try to open a website on Chrome with incorrect date-time (especially with the encrypted and padlocked ones like GWENT's), even if you turn off the warning. And you're telling me that he planned all this a YEAR ago for a card game which isn't even famous. Highly improbable. By the way, he may still have the H.T.M.L. file. I can ask for it if you want.

The guy was active on the website that day. Call it a coincidence. The website is usually the first thing which gets updated when a new update is about to be announced. The description was there for only about 2 days, and then it got updated. Only the owner of the screenshots and few of his friends were aware of it, and as soon as they decided to leak it, the teaser dropped confirming the release date (thereby updating the website).

He has many H.T.M.L.s downloaded. Screenshots just don't cut it. People can always say it's an edit or just inspect element, but in this case it couldn't be either of those due to the fact that playGWENT.com is a padlocked site (meaning it can't be accessed with an incorrect date/time) and that he may still have the H.T.M.L. Card game websites usually keep getting updated every now and then with new releases and announcements, and there's always a possibility of the older lore to be updated/changed.

If the link wasn't meant to be seen by the public then it wouldn't have been uploaded for a minute even, let alone 2 days. The only way you can prove it to be fake is the Wayback machine, but even that doesn't have data of before 22nd June, 2020.

You can always speculate a lore scan which isn't accessible anymore to be fake, but in this case it seems to be the real deal. There's simply more evidence for it to be real. The fact that you can't access padlocked websites with an incorrect date-time, the fact that he may still have the H.T.M.L., the fact that even the Wayback machine doesn't have the data to prove it to be a fake, and that it's unlikely for it to be a fake seeing the circumstances.

It doesn't seem to be a non-canon draft either. The devs went on to add everything on the website (except for the teaser which was released about 2 days later). An image of Master Mirror, a text saying "it's coming soon" (no release date was confirmed then since the teaser came out 2 days later) and card features.

The current description does indeed match the older description quite a lot. The current one might be a little briefer comparatively, but even it talks about Master Mirror being behind the entire story of the Witcher world with plot manipulation. In the game, Prof. Shakeslock claims that Master Mirror is Evil itself which assumes various forms to feed on the pains and sufferings of others. The old description presented the same thing by using the term "avatars", while his true self is an evil incarnate.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Alright been thinking about this for while. Everyone agrees on one thing, plot manipulation, because there is enough evidence for it to be supported and adding it wouldn't hurt but the other stuff is now a bit different.

As the scan says, the gaunter we saw is just an avatar meaning that we have to create two different keys for him, the one for the avatar and one for his true self which i find no problem with. The scan itself says so, but the tier is now a bit problematic because as soon as we touch the tier 1 territory, people will be pulling bullshit out of oxygen particles for literally anything, even tho the scan itself more so implies for a high 1-B tier than 2-A.

True that, L.O.L. They'd start screaming if they see Tier 1 Witcher. Let's just scrap tier high 1-B and go for "possibly far higher".

Yeah, I know the older description warrants high 1-B. I was talking about the CURRENT description. The current description on the site implies tier 2-B or 2-A, since it implies that G.O.D. was behind every event of the Witcher World including the Conjunction of Spheres.

So I guess the tiering should be:-

At least 4-B (Was implied to have created a dimension with stars and constellations with a clap), possibly higher (is the strongest being in the Witcher world all around) | At least 2-A (Was implied to be behind the very story of the Witcher world, which includes both the Conjunction of Spheres), possibly far higher (Was also stated to be an evil incarnate in a world transcendent over infinite higher planes of the Witcher universe in an older description on the same site).

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

The current description would make gaunter 2-A. I remember specifically that a gwent card revealed some info that would make the witchers multiverse possibly infinite in size

 

[CrisisCrysis]

The current description would make gaunter 2-A. I remember specifically that a gwent card revealed some info that would make the witchers multiverse possibly infinite in size

Oh wow. I'd love a scan. In terms of HAX, he should get plot manipulation, precognition (don't know if it's already there or not), Type 1 abstract existence (as he has been stated to be an evil incarnate, root of all evil multiple times and the ultimate Evil to balance the concept of Good in the Witcher multiverse like the Ying-Yang theory as per Prof. Shakeslock notes in the Nilfgaardian library) and social influence.

 

[Rez]

Oh wow. I'd love a scan. In terms of HAX, he should get plot manipulation, precognition (don't know if it's already there or not), Type 1 abstract existence (as he has been stated to be an evil incarnate, root of all evil multiple times and the ultimate Evil to balance the concept of Good in the Witcher multiverse like the Ying-Yang theory as per Prof. Shakeslock notes in the Nilfgaardian library) and social influence.

He has abstract existence type 2 and precog (although this can definitely use a better description like a way better one)

 

[CrisisCrysis]

He has abstract existence type 2 and precog (although this can definitely use a better description like a way better one)

Wouldn't that be type 1 abstract existence? He has been stated to be the ultimate Evil to counter Good in the Witcher multiverse like the Ying-Yang principle:-

 

[Rez]

Wouldn't that be type 1 abstract existence? He has been stated to be the ultimate Evil to counter Good in the Witcher multiverse like the Ying-Yang principle:-

The text states Gaunter to be made of flesh so no although the part where it states this:

Evil wears many faces and appears in many different forms

May work as supporting evidence for ae type 1 for his true form key that is being discussed here as it implies gaunter is merely one of the few avatars of Evil itself. Once you have all the scans for 2-A you should probably edit the op and ask some staff to take a look at this thread

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I don't believe this one bit.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Since you asked me to try it, I just installed Chrome and replicated the screenshot.

Let me tell you, this was trivially easy. We don't need to plan this for an entire year; we just need 5-10 minutes to type whatever and take a screenshot.
So don't blame me when I say that the screenshots are not good evidence.

I still have the html by the way. Also why would he take many htmls? What does multiple of them accomplish or differ from one an other (assuming they are not tampered with)? One is enough. And if he really wanted to preserve the webpage he could've easily archived it online.
I just want evidence that people talked about this in social media before the announcement to know that it existed back then.

The link for the social media website Donald Trump wants to launch was not meant to be seen by the public, but some people found it and leaked it, causing people unintended to see it to register and browse it. So it is possible for a link to be uploaded but not intended for the public as long as it is not advertised. Seeing that apparently only a few people outside of the game makers saw it, and that the guy wanted to leak it (doing a horrible job at that; a social media post with a link is all it takes), we can say that if it is genuine it is not intended for the public and is therefore a non-canon rough draft.

He says that he found the link on the main website. Well, there is an archive for it on the 2nd of June before the announcement.

GWENT: The Witcher Card Game

Join in The Witcher universe’s favorite card game! In GWENT, you clash with your friends in fast-paced duels that combine bluffing, on-the-fly decision making and careful deck construction.

web.archive.org

Where do we find the link?
If it was on the website, more than one person + a few of his friends would've seen it, and people would talk about it on social media.
Also, there is a countdown timer telling us when the announcement will come, so why wait after the timer to 'leak' it.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Since you asked me to try it, I just installed Chrome and replicated the screenshot.

Let me tell you, this was trivially easy. We don't need to plan this for an entire year; we just need 5-10 minutes to type whatever and take a screenshot.
So don't blame me when I say that the screenshots are not good evidence.

I still have the html by the way. Also why would he take many htmls? What does multiple of them accomplish or differ from one an other (assuming they are not tampered with)? One is enough. And if he really wanted to preserve the webpage he could've easily archived it online.
I just want evidence that people talked about this in social media before the announcement to know that it existed back then.

The link for the social media website Donald Trump wants to launch was not meant to be seen by the public, but some people found it and leaked it, causing people unintended to see it to register and browse it. So it is possible for a link to be uploaded but not intended for the public as long as it is not advertised. Seeing that apparently only a few people outside of the game makers saw it, and that the guy wanted to leak it (doing a horrible job at that; a social media post with a link is all it takes), we can say that if it is genuine it is not intended for the public and is therefore a non-canon rough draft.

He says that he found the link on the main website. Well, there is an archive for it on the 2nd of June before the announcement.

GWENT: The Witcher Card Game

Join in The Witcher universe’s favorite card game! In GWENT, you clash with your friends in fast-paced duels that combine bluffing, on-the-fly decision making and careful deck construction.

web.archive.org

Where do we find the link?
If it was on the website, more than one person + a few of his friends would've seen it, and people would talk about it on social media.
Also, there is a countdown timer telling us when the announcement will come, so why wait after the timer to 'leak' it.

He sent the H.T.M.L. file when I told him all this:-

Master Mirror

Play GWENT — a strategy card game of choices and consequences, where skill, not luck, is your greatest weapon.

cdn.discordapp.com

He said you guys can check the minor details if you want. It's the real deal.

He says he doesn't know how to archive. And I just said that he has multiple H.T.M.L.'s of other sites. He only has one of GWENT. He always downloads H.T.M.L. for further proof.

The point is, why would it be not intended for the public if it's so well made? Why would they even put it up? And that too for not even 2 whole days? It's not like GWENT is very famous in itself, so people would get talking about it.

It wasn't on the main page. It wasn't directly linked through the main page on 1st June. It was a separate link altogether according to him. You can say that it was "hidden". The page was there, just hidden. He was checking out the page and found it after some fiddling. He did know an update was coming (everybody knew from that countdown). So he added "/updates/" after the link and then entered the name of various Witcher characters, and found the then hidden page of Master Mirror. That's how he found out.

Also, he was signed in to the website. You weren't, and Internet Archives won't let you access that page either.

Most websites do exactly this. They put up the new pages of updates which are about to be announced as hidden. This is how people usually discover them.