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Mandrakk Plot Manipulation Thread: additional Information for you to consider

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Was linked to this thread recently and asked to add more information for the mods to consider.


In this thread and a few others Bleed is the literal ink meta in comic books and beyond the panels. This is affirmed by the author in his recent additional information posts on his substack called Xanadum. This is an exerpt from his Supergods book, and the passages were written many years ago.

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Mandrakk is also sent by the Overvoid to investigate the Ink and Narratives, specifically. In the older thread, it was asked where confirmation is on the notion that Mandrakk can devour narrative on a meta level. Here is the author confirming exactly that. This is also from his Xanadum blog posts.

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So at this moment, we have the author 100% confirm Mandrakk came from the Overvoid, Bleed is meta in Final Crisis's cosmology (not the others) and that Mandrakk was capable of consuming narrative itself.

We have further older coroboration on this notion in this older interview, where Grant tells us that Wonder Woman's arc was consumed by Mandrakk.




It was also said in the previous thread "Mandrakk draining The Bleed is also compared to sucking all life out of the story." which is a valid and actually objectively correct statement. We've learned that in this series, Bleed is Meta, and that Wonder Woman didn't appear much in Final Crisis because Mandrakk ate her story. This is not a reference to reality warping, or just erasing her. This is a meta feat. This is from Newsarama, which is now a website that no longer exists, but if you Google Cache the link, you can still find it: https://www.newsarama.com/2053-grant-morrison-final-crisis-exit-interview-part-1.html">Grant Morrison Interview with Newsarama Part 1

We were also told that the older and future Source's were the Overvoid. Incorrect. Not in this cosmology. Here is the illustrator of the guidebook map saying the Source
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This is important, because some other users to this very day, continue to falsely cite that all cosmologies and canons are exactly the same. This is...absurd. Here is Grant telling you live on video that the point of all the 52 worlds in the Bleed was to showcase all the differene meta's between each authors DC comics series, and other franchises too.



And just for giggles, here is the Flash TV show writers insisting that one small palm sized piece of refined Bleedspace made by none other than Mandrakk, will give you full dominion over all beyond the Source Wall.



Why is this important? Steve Orlando says that saying Mandrakk is a 2-1 definition of the Overvoid. Meaning, Mandrakk is a significant portion of the Overvoid, implying the OVervoid perhaps also playing through the story as we read it in the form of Mandrakk.

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More over, it was a discussion point in a few previous threads that, again, Mandrakk cannot consume the meta narrative of the stories of the DCU. Incorrect. Here is an interview with Grant that says Mandrakk was draining the DCU itself. Not just a universe or a single location, the entire DCU.

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Why bother posting this stuff? Because I have seen some of the 2015 era of debating resurface lately and some things get changed based on rhetoric and preferences rather than objective data. I hope that changes soon. Not long ago, this was confirmed. Final Heaven still in the Overvoid. So to those who kept insisting AHL > Mandrakk, hopefulyl that era of invalid information is now a nonissue.

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More so, the same author as above, confirming Mandrakk is nonstory to him.
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So we have confirmed that the Source is the page in Final Crisis, that Mandrakk is from the Overvoid above all the ink and narratives within it. that Mandrakk can consume the meta itself between author canon series themselves in a literal manner as the author confirmed in that video, that Mandrakk to another author entirely is essentially the Overvoid playing through things or at the very least the most significant piece of the Overvoid, and that Mandrakk is nonstory.

Steve Orlando says the Cosmic Armor is all story, all creation or existence. Mandrakk is the whatever that is not that. I see that some people are having some issues with what Limbo was detailed as in the new release of The Multiversity.

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Limbo is the meta collection of continuity flow for every fictional space there is. Not just DC. I have said this for years, and this was never confirmed until late 2022 in this new re-release of the Multiversity.

Mandrakk is far, far beyond Limbo. Perpetua is not.

Currently, Mandrakk is listed as just 1-A but the Writer is listed as High 1-A and likely 0.

This is not accurate. Limbo contains the continuity flow of every author avatar, including the writer, which was meaningless and a spec of nothing to be consumed by Mandrakk and revised by the Cosmic Armor as Superman saw fit. If the Writer is high 1A but the entire realm of Limbo includes every other franchise in there, then Mandrakk and the Armor and the Overvoid and the Nil Monitors are all beyond the Writer classification.

Why? Because its legitimate franchises and not copies. Confirmed once.

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Twice
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Three times




Why is this important?

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Mandrakk came from beyond the entire DCU, beyond the ink, beyond the entire point of stories in a literal sense of the word. And everything not the Overvoid is the Flaw, Existence.

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Everything that isn't the overvoid is in that Flaw. And the Overvoid put a barrier up to enclose everything and everyone else that isn't the Overvoid. Except Mandrakk. Because Mandrakk is the corruption of the Overvoid. T'was Mandrakk's job to go investigate everythig not the Overvoid. Everything means everything and not what other debaters here dislike and prefer to reedit out of that statement. Please, be fair with your assessments here and reference what the page itself says here and the authors repeatedly saying it, and not what some debaters interpret it to mean that is the total opposite...

Why is this important....because Mandrakk is the Overvoid basically in another form and Grant says that its the Overvoid that imaged what stories would be like. Not only does he have plot manipulation, but we don't even know how far his powers even really can go. If you ask me, he was playing with his food the entire time in that last fight.

So what did we learn?

Author said Mandrakk came from beyond the ink and it really worries me that this interview wasn't shared here by the other debaters on the other side. Almost like they wanted to censor that from the mods view. Its weird they don't use those scans at all, anywhere, ever.

We learned Mandrakk to another author is all nonstory, and the opposite of existence and Creation.

We learned that Bleed is in fact supposed to be meta and the general idea between all the authored canon series and the idea that holds all them in a big salad bowl.

We learned that even the TV show writers believe Mandrakk, with just one tiny piece of refined Bleedspace, can gift you total dominion over what is beyond the Source Wall.

We had an author tell you that the Presence is a lower tier being than the Monitors.

We had an illustrator of the guidbook confirm the Presence is not the Source.

We had the original author confirm that the Bleed contains other franchises in a literal manner and not copies, including Marvel, Image, and Archie.

I am not going to post the Tim Sheradan posts on Twitter where he confirms that Mandrakk is the only being that Unkindness couldn't tango with, but he did say that the Presence, Lucifer and Michael were also all taken out by her. No need at this point to twist the knife, lol. I also won't post the Geoff Thorne Interview nor the Kendrick interview where similar things were confirmed too. You mods and community should have plenty of references now to alter Mandrakk to high 1-A if the Presence and the Writer are both cited at 1-A.

That literally makes no sense at all. Multiple content creators confirmed the Presence isn't on par. The corruption of the Overvoid is > The Presence and the Writer.
Not the other way around. The Presence > All of Marvel and every other series of the DCU and other franchises is a moot point now. Limbo contains every franchise's continuity according to the guidebook.

Therefore, the Presence > Limbo > every fictional space there is, is not a fact. Its not even a fever dream. This needs revision because Mandrakk is supposed to be the ulitimate finality to every story. The Presence is a story within the DCU, and not in Earth 8 Marvel's actual franchise. Other debaters are going to come in here and deny this, despite the author telling you that the point of this was to showcase all the other franchises and stories too.

There is no logic in saying DC comics Presence > Marvel's god TOAA. That is not the context of the Presence.

The context of Mandrakk though, is something that was sent by and is the corrupted side of the thing that contains every single story and anything else you can think of. Mandrakk is the end to the DCU. To say the Presence > the entire DCU when even the parliaments almost bested the Presence in a fight alone seems quite silly.

Mandrakk should be a High 1A and the Presence should be a low High 1B. The CAS and NIl Monitors should be 1A.

Things that are directly made by or part of the Overvoid should not be lower in tier than the Presence, which is below the OTHER Source (not the Overvoid).

This is fact in every canon of DC"

Overvoid > Source > Presence

If the Overvoid made the Nil Monitors...ie proven here in this interview, AND we learned not just in the comic but also according to multiple DC content creators that Mandrakk is made by the Overvoid, or is a significant part of the Overvoid, then these beings should never be cited below the Presence in power rating.

The Presence is not part of the Overvoid. The Presence is not part the ultimate God that oversees both Marvel and DC and Image and Archie. To say he is, would be pure bias and overlooking the facts.

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The Overvoid isn't based on the Buddist viewpoint of Voidism. We all know this.

Here is Maharishi saying the Creator, God, Yahweh, is not the unified field, but came from it. The Creator isn't even Bramha.



This is debunked. If we cannot listen to the content creators and the worlds foremost expert on what the unified field, Brahma and the Creator (Yahweh) actually is and means, then why are we debating at all? The Field contains Brahma and the Creator. Not the reverse. I don't want to hear other debaters slither in here and try to thrawrt religious studies anymore on this topic. Grant based Final Crisis on the Buddist cosmology map.


Want proof Grant knows the difference? Here you go. This is your nail in the coffin.

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The Source is the Ayn Soph. The Highest Sphere. The Unified Unmanifest Field (The Overvoid) is not a sphere, its empty nothing. It contains everything else and everything else came from it.

In the video I linked, the Maharishi explains that the Field is the Absolute.
The Brahm and Brahama are not the same. And the House is everything that is which includes Brahm and Brahma.

That is literally what he says and this voidist belief system is precisely what Grant said this is based on. I also showed you an interview where Grant says this entire thing is based on the Buddhist map of the cosmos. So if Grant knows the differences between all of them and directly says the Source from Kirby is the Ayn Soph...then that is it. The war is over and everything needs to be altered on the tiering system.

The Unified Field is the Overvoid, also called the Unmanifest Field or the Absolute by Maharishi and all Voidist Buddhists who practice that religious view. Mandrakk is from this Absolute and so are the Nil Monitors.

Below that, the first thing to come from the field, is Brahma. Brahma the container space and akin to the shell of Existence. This is actually the same as Pralaya in the context of what DeMatteis says. The ayn soph and the Absolute ARE NOT THE SAME according to actual religious experts

Within the Brahma, is all the realms of being that define mortality and consciousness's according to Maharishi.

The House is everything that isn't the Absolute. The House is the Flaw on the Map, all existence = the Flaw and it contains Brahma and Brahm. A bit confusing, I know.

But this is what it looks like:

The Absolute ( the Overvoid ), the Unmanifest Unified Field.

The House

Brahma and Brahm.

The highest sphere of the House is the ayn soph. IE, the Kirby Source.

The field is the Overvoid. When people say the Source is the Overvoid, this is a play on words that was not properly explained by the content creators. Kirby's source was defined as the highest sphere. The Unified Field is the Overvoid that contains it.

And the CREATORRRR, Yahweh, the Presence is dead last on this list at the lowest sphere within the House.

Don't believe me? Here is a video of Maharishi explaining.


I'm sorry I threw a ton of information at you, but if you want to be educated, please read it all at least twice to fully absorb this. The argument is Presence > Mandrakk and that is just purely untrue.

The Field contains the entire House (House is another word for all of existence according to the Maharishi)

The House's top sphere is the ayn soph, where the Kirby Source lives. This is called Brahma.

Below that, contains lower spheres of existence, which the actual Creator was "MADE MANIFEST" according to the religious views that Final Crisis and Multiversity were based on. The Creator, Yahweh, directly cited as Yahweh in the questioning in that video, is the bottom tier.

Does that sound familiar? Thats what Scott Snyder said it was. Geoff Thorne also said the exact same thing.

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Believe it or not, I am an expert on religious studies even if you don't want to believe me and if you don't care. Grant says the Kirby Source is the Ayn Soph but goes on to cite that the Overvoid is the thing that contains all the spheres. And his illustrator double confirms the Source is not the Presence.

The Source of everything = the Field

The DC Comics Source > the entire bleed is not a valid viewpoint. Marvel is in there too, archie, and every other franchise too. All stories are in there.



Cool so it contains all stories. And its about what is inclusive of every single story, even nonfictional ones too? Oh there is a video of that too.


So the DC comics source and the Presence are DC narratives of ink and text that mandrakk was sent to investigate. Mandrakk is not of the DCU, nor the art, nor the text, and the Presence has no control over anything from Image comics, Marvel, or any other franchise in the Bleed.

But Mandrakk was directly cited as beyond all of that.

Mandrakk - High 1-A likely Tier 0

CAS - High 1A

Nil Monitors - 1A

The Presence - 1B ( has no authority over other franchises in the original version of what is in the bleed, has no meta, has no authority over TOAA, has no meta power over ink and narratives, has no context of being the sum of all properties fictional and nonfictional) and confirmed lower tier than Monitors by multiple content creators, Yet he is cited above the author avatars and also the Overvoids corruption?

I think not.

<3

-Michael
 
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