Garnet vs Hong Meiling

[Gojira1234]

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[Gojira1234]

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[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah i'd have to give it to Garnet with high difficulty for the reasons above

 

[Numbersguy]

Future Vision should be an edge here, she sould be able to see Hong's attack coming after her and how she can dodge her patterns. Plus she has enough AP to hurt her

 

[Gojira1234]

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[Sinyan]

How fast does future vision work? On her page, it states that it takes time to use and the future can be altered anytime. I think Meiling could probably overwhelm her with danmaku within that time.

 

[Jinx666]

Future Vision works as fast as Garnet can react most likely, which is Relavistic

And while future vision cant eactly see the future, it can point out the most likely circumstances, and with Garnet betting on those, i doubt she wouldnt be able to predict

Going for Garnet

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

People seem to forget that danmaku is only dodgeable for the sake of being spell card duels.

 

[Jiangshi1]

And soome of Meiling's techniques even work wonders upclose, like Colorful Brilliance "Rainbow Taichi", whould allow her to attack while Garnet is hit by a barrier of chi, Chi Sign "Fierce Tiger Energy Release" is super armor so she can buff herself a bit, and especially Flower Sign "Colorful Light Lotus Palm" which honestly, should be the deal sealer since shes pumping so my chi that the enemy practically erupts from it. Basically, her own "you are already dead" style attack. Add in flight and honestly, her Regenerationn is better despite being lower since Garnet has to reform from her gem state rather than if she loses a limb (unless I'm missing something), her flight and distance game, as well as being good enough to claim Sakuya can't beat her in a former duel (rather its pride or seriousness, who knows but she does generally seem to take it seriously) and honestly, I think she has a better H2H game than Garnet

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Garnet has to reform from her gem state rather than if she loses a limb (unless I'm missing something)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTggKyg5cTg&t=3m23s

 

[Sinyan]

It's seems like a close match in close quarters combat, but I don't see Garnet having a chance in long range combat since it'll boil down to 2 rocket fists vs hundreds of bullets. If we assume that the match is a mix of both close and distant fight, I'd give the overall win to Meiling.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's not close for CQC. Garnet lands a hit, Hong is getting crippled. She likely can still operate, but it does far more damage that vice versa. Not to mention that experience gap and CQC screws over Hong Meiling.

 

[Sinyan]

She's island level in ap and dura, but likely higher so the gap may be smaller than we think. She's also a Tai Chi master with plenty of chi hax as mentioned by Jiangshi. I'd say Garnet's brawler style of fighting would be more predictable. And we don't know how old Meiling is so while it's very likely that Garnet has more experience, we still don't know how big/small the gap really is. By virtue of AP, I'd give the edge to Garnet but I wouldn't say Meiling gets screwed over in CQC either. Even if we go with her lowest stats, I still think her crazy range advantage would just barely give her the win.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

It's not a big DC gap anyway. Helped by the fact that Meiling should be higher. Experience gap is useful but then again you can't always defend from everything coming from everything while defending from someone attacking up front. Like a barrage of danmaku slamming from everywhere to slow down your reaction. I've seen precognition be overwhelmed by too much stuff so I wonder how Garnet's power works.

Noticeably there's a big issue with flight and Meiling can just pretty much make it rain like any other Touhou character. She's also much much better at dodging cus you know, physically reliant Danmaku girl.

And the issue with that gem weakpoint.... Again, handled by danmaku everywhere. And Meiling's not exactly dumb.

 

[Sinyan]

@WeeklyBattles Sorry if I used the term wrong, I shouldn't call it hax. I'm just referencing what Jiangshi mentioned about chi manipulation.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@COB The "Gem Weak Point" is kinda hard to exploit on Garnet, who's Gems are literally protected by armored gauntlets...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The gap between island and large island ain't that small. Especially when Hong doesn't even have the plus. She'll at best be doing chipping damage. And being a Danmaku expert is detrimental if Garnet gets up close, as she's not used to that kind of fighting. Not to mention Garnet can just like, punch the attacks away. She has the AP for it.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

@Weekly Can you elaborate? I'm not that knowledgeable on that regard.

@Cal Sooo she's gonna punch everything that's literally swarming from everywhere? I mean speed is equalized after all. Aaaand how is she gonna get close to someone flying? Even Meiling stays up in the same and even if she probably would want a fair fight I doubt she'd consider letting herself be oneshotted fair. Didn't say it was gonna be easy.

And if the gap's that big (I mean she can only do chip damage is what you're saying) then it's probably a stomp then. Though you said so yourself that it wasn't a stomp so.... But then again that's kinda contradictory

 

[Sinyan]

@The real cal howard But she won't be able to get up close since danmaku practically goes hand in hand with flight. And punching away the attacks can only do so much. Without spellcard rules, Meiling can just wall her in or even make it hit from all angles.

@COB You ninja...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Considering Garnet's proficient at Muda'ing, can do this BS (I really can't explain it any other way], can use her gauntlets as shields, and can casually jump past the cloud layer, and bullets are really only coming from in front of her, kinda. Not to mention I doubt Meiling expects to get OHKO'd.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@COB Her gems are on the palms of her hands, which are protected within her gauntlets. If Meiling wants to attack her gemstones she'd have to destroy those gauntlets and attack her gemstones in the very short amount of time before Garnet reforms them.

And Garnet can easily catch a flying opponent via her extendable limbs, or even just by jumping (Garnet's casual jumps can easily carry her above the cloud layer, even while carrying a fishing boat).

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

So.... she can muda muda forward and with speed equalized is as fast as the danmaku slamming into her from every direction. Gotcha. Will say that the arms spreading is much more of a better feat. Although hunkering down from all danmaku would mean she focuses entirely on defense.

Getting crippled by one attack is a bit close to an OHKO. Also from the way you worded, Meiling's attacks would only chip her so you seem to yourself think that Meiling can do absolutely nothing despite your earlier response of saying she can. It's a weird paradox, but I'm pretty sure that makes you think it's kinda a stomp. I mean I was in agreement with you too.

The attacks are only coming in from forward? You have played Touhou right? Or at least seen a gameplay? That's not just forward.

@Weekly

Gotcha, thanks for the explanation. How fast do they regenerate?

Jumping is not the same as flying however. What happens if she misses? And that applies to extending the arm and jumping. Her hands would be vulnerable (I mean there's already danmaku everywhere anyway). It's not as if Meiling is a newbie to flying or that she doesn't specialize in dodging while flying. She does both. It would be more detrimental for Garnet to do that.

Edit - Will chat more tomorrow, lab report due date

 

[Sinyan]

But Meiling can just as easily dodge Garnet considering she'd just be another projectile. But I wouldn't recommend that Garnet jumps because if she misses the first time, which is very likely, she'd be a sitting duck the entire way down. Without flight, her trajectory would be fixed and she would become an easy target.

@WeeklyBattles Is there a limit to her limb extension?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Don't get me wrong. Garnets getting hit. A lot. And it will stack.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I meant the attacks were only coming forward to Garnet. What does it matter to Garnet if Meiling is shooting attacks behind her? From the Touhou game I've played, no one attacked Reimu from the rear.

 

[Sinyan]

Well yeah they didn't attack Reimu from the rear, but no one was breaking spell card rules either. I imagine if there were no spellcard rules, youkai would be aiming their attacks in the cheapest way possible. But hey, no youkai wants to deal with a no-timer fantasy nature either ehe.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Sinyan Like Cal Posted before she has done this without struggling, as well as this, and Amethyst, who is inferior to Garnet, has been able to grow larger than a movie theater with her shapeshifting

 

[Jiangshi1]

From the Touhou game I've played, no one attacked Reimu from the rear.

Heaven and Hell Meltdown and Subterranean Sun, Lillies of Murderous Intent, Master Spark's stars, Star Ring Pounce... quite a few spellcards can be notorious for hitting you from behind. Especially once you stop hugging the bottom of the screen or try getting above the boss (collision KO was something I remember all too well from some bosses)

And I'm certain it was once stated Meiling shattered one of the SDM's walls. Considering the whole mansion is basically a TARDIS even without taking Sakuya into it to the point you can easily get lost in it, I'd say it's much larger than a movie theater

 

[Gojira1234]

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[Hazerddex]

Garnet can see the future so she has that advatage however

Garnet does not have FTL speed so keeping up with Hong Meiling might be to hard for her even if she can see the future it does not meen she can react in time to stop it.

she does have her durability (i'm guessing its as much as the gemstone in real life can some one clarafy this?)

however Meiling has deostryed the entire wall of the scarlet devil mansion with one punch. see touhou hitsotensoku spell care red energy release

also as stated in Perfect Memoto in the stricts "Youkai have stronger bodies than humans, so even if they're split into five parts, they heal right away."

but she might beable to bubble meiling after spliting her appart sort of sealing her but not killing her.

seeing as this is a K.O battle and not a battle to the death meiling would likely hold back as she is averse to attacking other people. (im still triyng to figure out why they would fight tho i can guess reimilia being who she is)

this is the possiblity that meiling uses her FTL speeds to hit garnet hard enough to poof her that would count as a K.O for a gem.

but if garnet reacted fast enough she might beable to win this in a K.O seeing as you can knock youkai out. (tho this has mostly been done in spell card battles.)

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Garnet does not have FTL speed so keeping up with Hong Meiling might be to hard for her even if she can see the future it does not meen she can react in time to stop it.

 

[Hazerddex]

Well yeah they didn't attack Reimu from the rear, but no one was breaking spell card rules either. I imagine if there were no spellcard rules, youkai would be aiming their attacks in the cheapest way possible. But hey, no youkai wants to deal with a no-timer fantasy nature either ehe.

you can attack reimu from behind have you played the offical fighting games ever? and a youkai got the drop on reimu by attacking her from behind in a spell card battle in Curiosities of lotus asia


back on topic.


as of paulo coment

question how are they both serious at winning if meiling is holding back? by the speed equlization?

ok anyway

with that in case

the future vision

we have seen garnet lose to jasper with the destabilizer (idk how she did not see that coming if she had future vision but w/e.)

so i guess we could theorize that her future vision has flaws.

so they are both basicily equal in durability

in terms of experence i think garnets older then meiling we don't know how old meiling is but she might have been recutied after sakuya

so ill give Garnet a point in experences since meilings past is unknown 1 point for garnet

physical strengh they are both very similar. so point for both of them

powers

so garnet has future vision so she has better evasion 1 point for garnet since its a speed eqaulization battle meiling cant use FTL speed to evade

however she is not as good as meiling wioth qi manipulation. as meiling can even defeat people using there own qi against them. 1 point for meiling

its also been stated meiling has less power then most youkai due to the fact she specizes in mulibple abilities rather then one

im going to geuss she has less stanima then Garnet since she sleeps a lot. 1 point for garnet

so ya without her FTL even with her supirior qi manipulation in a non leathal just for fun ko battle garnet would probably win if her future vision is reliable enough.

unless Meiling some how got the drop on Garnet with one of her qi strikes so basicly garnet has to be careful to avoid every attack since a single punch could poof her.

but as long as she keept eveading she would win.

however one mistake she would lose and get poofed

i guess its iconclusive for me as well

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

question how are they both serious at winning if meiling is holding back? by the speed equlization?

Speed Equalization is not the character holding back, it's a way to prevent Speed Blitz, to make the fight more balanced, debatable or engaging, and to prevent all comments to be "(Insert character here) blitzes."

 

[Hazerddex]

question how are they both serious at winning if meiling is holding back? by the speed equlization?

Speed Equalization is not the character holding back, it's a way to prevent Speed Blitz, to make the fight more balanced, debatable or engaging, and to prevent all comments to be "(Insert character here) blitzes."

but its also inaccurate to who would acutucaly win. What do you do when its vs a character whos power revolves around speed like the flash?

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

but its also inaccurate to who would acutucaly win. What do you do when its vs a character whos power revolves around speed like the flash?

I don't know, but if you don't like to equalized speed, go complain to whoever had the idea to whoever had the idea in the first place.

 

[Hazerddex]

but its also inaccurate to who would acutucaly win. What do you do when its vs a character whos power revolves around speed like the flash?

I don't know, but if you don't like to equalized speed, go complain to whoever had the idea to whoever had the idea in the first place.

im fine with equalized speed as long as theres a legitimante explanation for it. like if one character was holding back

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

im fine with equalized speed as long as theres a legitimante explanation for it. like if one character was holding back

Well, too bad.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Without speed equalization Meiling is gonna win.

Though honestly in a case of speed equalization imo it should be that instead of just equal it means that the original owner is given the slight speed advantage.