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Garchomp VS Roronoa Zoro (0/7/0) [Grace]
- Thread starter KlinkyGrape
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Still Zoro FRAYou are heavily underestimating Zorobut since Mega Garchomp is now 7.2 gigatons, it'll be more fair.
Zoro can fight people that are to fast for him to see just by using Analytical Prediction, and is able to overwhelm him with skill dispite that person having some sort of precog/Obs haki. Zoro can also Speed Amp with Shi Shishi Sonson
I doubt that will land, still Zoro has been shown to get up from things that should kill him and fight again even stronger than he was before. He can also manipulate his body at will tho not sure if that will help with paralysis.
Um? Does that mean he can see Zoro even tho he's behind him or does that mean he can see the area around him? Zoro has Extrasensory Perception (Through sensing the breath of someone or an object he can know their location despite not being visible to him) link, I mean Basic obs haki users can do this, even much better than what you described... They can sense/see presence around them, see 360 degrees around them, emotions around them and many more...
I very much doubt that...
Zoro can spam wide range AOE slashes, One shot with goken slashes, insane skill and acrobatics which that alone should make it quite easy to dodge Garchomp, which can be supported by Enhanced Senses (Can consistently react to attacks not in his line of sight, Figured out the magistrate was the killer he was being framed for when he smelled blood on him), crazy Information Analysis, Extrasensory Perception via breath of all things, Analytical Prediction and Observation Haki
Voting Zoro FRA
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How do you know they haven't changed their minds? The match was deemed to be a stomp after everyone listed all the advantages Zoro had over Garchomp which was posted after the votes of the people who chose Garchomp.A stomp... Reallythe ones that voted garchomp doesn't think that... This isn't a stomp.
Why does this matter?
Garchomp in its current mental state in mega evo is too stupid to use it effectively.
Anyways Zoro fra if we change it to base Garchomp
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That's what a part of my whole argument earlier was.
As for why I didn't say it earlier, this thread had gotten active, I had had a long day, & One Piece vs Pokemon Versus Threads can often get... strenuous, I've found. So I wasn't very enthusiastic about debating it. Plus I was kinda hoping someone would else would bring it up.
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Pretty sure most of those votes were on the basises of moves that Mega Garchomp wouldn't in-characterly use, & didn't consider the skill factor. (Or FRAs.) So the validity of such votes was questionable.A stomp... Really
If you change to base... Zoro has a huge ap advantage...
It flies at speeds equal to a jet fighter plane. It never allows its prey to escape.
It is said that when one runs at high speed, its wings create blades of wind that can fell nearby trees.
It can fly at speeds rivaling jet planes. It dives into flocks of bird Pokémon and gulps the entire flock down whole.
The protuberances on its head serve as sensors. It can even detect distant prey.
It flies at the speed of sound while searching for prey, and it has midair battles with Salamence as the two compete for food.
It is said that when one runs at high speed, its wings create blades of wind that can fell nearby trees.
It can fly at speeds rivaling jet planes. It dives into flocks of bird Pokémon and gulps the entire flock down whole.
The protuberances on its head serve as sensors. It can even detect distant prey.
It flies at the speed of sound while searching for prey, and it has midair battles with Salamence as the two compete for food.
Looking at that, it would seem Garchomp's in-character move would be:
Fly towards Zoro, making blades of wind (The details of which are unclear because Garchomp doesn't learn any "blades of wind" moves by level up such as Air Slash or Air Cutter.), & aiming to bite Zoro. If he goes into the air somehow, Garchomp will take to the skies to fly.
Currently, Garchomp's profile lists its Pokemon Conquest abilities. Assuming those are valid to use, let's look at them.
- Sandpit: A Conquest ability. Restores HP when the Pokémon is standing on soil or sand.
- Instinct: A Conquest ability. The Pokémon's instinct makes it so it swiftly evades attacks.
- Melee: A Conquest ability. The Pokémon can attack adjacent enemies in the confusion of battle.
- Celebrate: A Conquest ability. The Pokémon gets an adrenaline boost by defeating an enemy, allowing it to immediately make another attack on another enemy.
- Stealth: A Conquest ability. On Garchomp's favorite terrain, it becomes more likely to dodge moves.
- Parry: A Conquest ability. Garchomp can use its scythes to parry attacks.
- Tenacity: A Conquest ability. Making contact with Garchomp causes the opponent to flinch.
In terms of moves, Garchomp's IC move, as detailed above, is probably trying to use Bite, Crunch or Fire Fang.
It CAN learn Scary Face, but that's an Egg Move, so it's not super likely.
Also, in the absence of other multipliers, let's suppose it uses the multipliers present in the games: Against a foe at their base speed, 1st Scary Face is to 0.75x (Ergo, Zoro would be 25% slower than usual.), 2nd is to 0.66x (Zoro would be 34% slower than usual, total.).... It's after 6 Scary Faces that Zoro would, in theory, be at one quarter of his usual speed.
Besides the issue that this might not work, Zoro would probably still be trying to cut Garchomp while it glowers at him, & Garchomp spending that much time glowering from the get-go seems unlikely. It might try once or twice, but after Zoro shows he's un-intimidated, I don't think it'd persist in trying to scare him.
Since Zoro, AFAIK, tends to prefer blocking, Garchomp will quickly learn that the guy who uses 3 swords is very good at blocking with 3 swords, & will probably try to stop biting.
At this point, I imagine it might try to go for Slash, Dragon Claw, Dual Chop, maybe trying to match Zoro in Melee.
Sure it has Swords Dance, but exclusively as an Event Move; To learn it otherwise involves a trainer's involvement, for a TM, TR or Move Tutor. So it doesn't seem likely to use it.
There's also not insignificant possibility that after seeing that biting the Mr. 3-Swords-Style didn't work, it wouldn't try to match him with cutting in Melee. If Garchomp had some sense, it would use Sandstorm. In Sand, Garchomp has residual damage & cover (Especially through Sand Veil.).
It not knowing about Haki means Zoro probably dodges in melee anyway. If it has seen that Zoro dodges too much to be hit.... Well, for one, it probably won't give up trying to hit him if he's dodging, especially if it sees Zoro as prey because it's stated that "It never allows prey to escape".
But if it realized it can't hit Zoro in melee, & that it realized he seems to know where the attacks will be before it uses them....
It could set up Sand for cover & evasion, & start digging, using its head-protrusions to keep track of Zoro remotely, & attacking at wide-range with moves like Twister (Has a chance to flinch, & if it launches Zoro into the air he might be less mobile to dodge stuff like Dragonbreath, which can Paralyze.), & Sand Tomb, which could trap Zoro temporarily (Though Zoro's LS might make this more temporary than preferred, but it'd still tax Zoro's stamina repeatedly getting out of pits.).
But going for cover & stealth & attacking with wide-range to wear down isn't in-character for Garchomp, & if it goes into Melee with Zoro, it probably loses. Doesn't help that most of its moves side-effects aren't relevant because they'll be hitting Zoro's swords more than Zoro.
Scary Face won't work, & Swords Dance seems OoC.
If it were bloodlusted &/or had Prior Knowledge (Lol), I could see it having a chance by wearing down Zoro in a war of attrition (Hah. Wearing down Zoro.), but that isn't the case.
Voting Zoro, Medium Difficulty.
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Great analysis, Zoro FRA.
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I suppose one potential matter I didn't consider is the possibility of Zoro's swords breaking, depending on the AP gap. I have no idea if his swords are as durable as he is without Haki. There's also the question of their temperature tolerance because of Fire Fang, & Dragonbreath, as well as Flamethrower & Fire Blast. & also Crunch having its 20% chance to reduce DEF by 1 Stage. (25% of base Durability for first drop if we use the multipliers found in games in absence of other multipliers.)
Under what circumstances does Zoro use Armament Haki?
Under what circumstances does Zoro use Armament Haki?
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Literally all the time. His blades have 6-B durability iirc, at least two of them.
Eminiteable
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If Zoro decides to use Armament Haki his blade's durability will become "At least 6-B" in durability (Shusui however always has this rating regardless of if Zoro uses haki or not), in terms of their ability to tank temperatures they've been in contact with things like Enel's electricity, Big Mom's Prometheus etc.
He typically doesn't start with it at this point in the story as against most of his opponent's he hasn't needed it. Although he will immediately use it if he feels it's necessary from the start (Against King) or if the situation gets worse (Against Killer)
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Hunh. I haven't seen it that much in the anime, & I've been watching as far as Punk Hazard Arc. Seen a little bit of Dressrosa, but not much involving Zoro, & I don't remember most from earlier arcs. Doesn't Haki typically have the weapons become black?
No idea what Prometheus is, & I didn't know that Zoro was using -Or even knew of- Haki during the battle against Enel on Skypeia.
I'd assume he wouldn't use it from the start here; Mindset is "In-Character but not willing to kill" & Zoro usually sees big monsters as not threats at all. Obstructions in his path at best, since he's literally hunted dinos for food or just sport. I don't think he'd take Garchomp seriously at all.
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Prometheus is Big Mom's sun homie. He technically has haki then but it's not the standard abilities, I mean't that Zoro's swords in base were used as conductors for Enel's electricity and they weren't melted.
Most likely, he has shown the capacity to read the strength of people with his observation haki but considering Garchomp starts at 3.6 Gigatons I don't think he would immediately go for Armament Haki as he didn't against Killer or Hyouzou.
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What's Zoro's AP rating at for this?
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Base Zoro scales to baseline 6-C; 4.3 Gigatons
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I know you voted Zoro but just wanna give some more info
against slashes probably but normally dodges... Tho he can also block 
maybe? But he wouldn't underestimate him at all... Even without using haki.
Zoro can utilize Goken (damage boost) which one shots people much higher dura than his own ap... That or Zoro having a big ap advantage which will end it quite quickly (won't one shot but will definitely two shot)
Otherwise pretty good
This is quite unlikely, since even pre timeskip Zoro has insane endurance and stamina... Things that are supposed to kill him, he endures and survives because of his will power
I think it's more like healing and not regen (haki has regeneration negation)
Zoro can sense/see his presence... Stealth won't work even if you fuse into the ground, Zoro will sense or see you (examples link and link)
Not really...
against slashes probably but normally dodges... Tho he can also block Zoro has no problem killing...
True... But Zoro likes to end things quite quickly.... He isn't like luffy.
maybe? But he wouldn't underestimate him at all... Even without using haki.Zoro can utilize Goken (damage boost) which one shots people much higher dura than his own ap... That or Zoro having a big ap advantage which will end it quite quickly (won't one shot but will definitely two shot)
Otherwise pretty good
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Very much aware, but thanks for the reminder, lol.
The point would not be to avoid detection so much as to be inaccessible; Speed equal means they're moving at similar speeds; A Garchomp several meters underground is a Garchomp that Zoro can't engage in melee with. At best, Zoro could attack by sword slashing, but he'd have to be using his Haki to view Garchomp's presence 100% of the fight, & even know if he hit Garchomp at all.
I don't think Zoro, & even his immense stamina would like having to do nothing but sword beams/air slashes. (Plus, doesn't the scan where Usopp sees presence have him already looking in their direction?)
'course, I also say this not knowing of Zoro's Environmental Destruction capacity.
Me saying "In-Character but not willing to kill" was a mistake. I meant to reference SBA, which lists default mind-set, as "In-Character, but willing to kill"; The point is, going for murder probably isn't how Zoro starts, especially because he's seen & hunted beasts larger than Garchomp, & sees them as obstacles or pests rather than threats.
Makes sense.
Why wouldn't he underestimate it? Just because he wants the battle ended quickly doesn't mean he isn't going to think this is just another pesky monster in the way, right?
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There was only a window
maybe... But he won't underestimate. (I mean Zoro I think does also start with murdering well if they are in his way)First Zoro has insane information analysis. (without haki)... Zoro lost thousands of matches against a girl and lost against Mohawk who he thought he was going to beat. I don't see him underestimating... Also I think there is a statement where he says he won't underestimate anyone
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Windows tend to be see-through. Also, why did you post a full-body art image of Akame??
But yeah, any idea what the capacity for ED on Zoro's air slashes/sword beams is?
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The Akame image was funny
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Garchomp via monkey's scan of Akame, solid reasoning that I can't counter.
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not sure why it pasted akame instead
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Akame cause she’s Waifu
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This is why I posted her....
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<Overrated
WHAT?!
WHAT?!
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to
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IIRC, we don't assume Environmental Destruction abilities are equal to your tier; Having the tier doesn't mean all your attacks always destroy that much, just that you have the capacity to damage stuff with that durability.
But thanks for the scans. & don't worry about spoilers. Context is important for debating, & I imagine by the time what you spoiled comes up when I'm watching, I'll have mostly forgotten what you said here, lol. No offense meant.
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His air slashes can reach that deep, it's not really Environmental Destruction as much as it is range. As for burrowing under the ground he can deal with it the same way he dealt with Pica, sensing his presence and attacking massive portions of the ground itself to reach.
How far can Gar dig down?
How far can Gar dig down?
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No clue. Nonetheless, my vote remains on Zoro.
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I only came to this thread because I heard of Monkey accidentally posting a full body Akame pic
Anyways Zoro FRA
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That's grace (again)
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I don't think I remember any Zoro matches that weren't a stomp/spite and weren't discontinued that ended in him losing, I guess he wasn't lying
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Lmfao for real, Zoro have no ******* lose in his profile
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