Ganon vs Joker

[TriforcePower1]

Now that Link is gone, Ganon takes the stage! So it's now time to make him rematch the guys Link fought because it's just the honorable thing to do (after all, what's more noble than beating up the guys that were beated up by the guy who beated you up?).

ALTTP Ganon vs Joker with Sataneal, so Low 2-C version for both (for non-zelda fans, that's the "Complete Triforce" key on Ganon's P&A section)

Speed equalized

Pig: 7 (Dat Random Dude 2, ZephyrosOmega, Ican'tthinkof1goodname, Schnee One, Milly Rocking Bandit, I'm Blue daba dee daba die, ChocomilkAlex)

Cat:

Inconclusive:


Yes, this is his official artwork

 

[Dat_Random_Dude_2]

Voting Ganon here because of Sealing with the Triforce

 

[TriforcePower1]

Mini bump

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Yeah, Ganon just Seals or Hakai's past Joker's EE "Resistance"

 

[Dat_Random_Dude_2]

Is this a stomp?

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Ganon seals Joker with triforce

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Is this a stomp?

Nah, Ganon doesn't resist a good number of Joker's hax. He's just way more likely to open up with his winning move.

 

[Schnee_One]

Ganon Seals yeah

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Sucks joker is being revised and I can't argue the sealing he's going to resist because it's not on the profile.

 

[Schnee_One]

Won't he be 2c After revisions anyway

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Actually, best of both worlds. He'll be Low 2-C from Early-Late Game, and 2-C / 2-B End-Game - True Royal Ending.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Sucks joker is being revised and I can't argue the sealing he's going to resist because it's not on the profile.

Sucks that your revisions are based on lies

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Feel free to give input when it's actually up and you can debate it, until then I don't really give a damn about you.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

For now, Ganon FRA.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

The one who lost to an 8-B FRA

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

Ganon seals gg

 

[TriforcePower1]

I think this is grace then.

Next we're having Ganon vs Dante

 

[Dat_Random_Dude_2]

I think this is grace then.
Next we're having Ganon vs Dante

YES YES!

 

[TriforcePower1]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/4310834

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Grace is over

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Gonna ask that this doesn't get added yet so that the Persona supporters can actually make an argument at all.

FRA trains, seriously

 

[Schnee_One]

You know this can't be added because of forum moves right?

 

[Solacis]

I mean, Ren doesn't resist Sealing right now anyway. And from what I know, that would be one of Ganon's first moves.

Also what Gar said. Forum move.

 

[Silentpixels]

can ganon withstand ren's mind manip tho

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

In his Low 2-C key? Yes.

Apart from that he has a far greater chance of openign with a winning move

 

[Solacis]

Silentpixels has a point. What's Ganon's mindhax resistance? End-Game Ren's mindhax is comparable to Yaldy, who mindhaxed 10^29 complex minds at once via Mementos.

Granted, psychokinetic attacks aren't considered mindhax yet, and mental ailments aren't exactly Ren's first move, so he likely still gets sealed first, anyway.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Ganon's first moves is not sealing. Nor EE.

Occasionally Ganon will start a fight with something like BFR, but he usually starts fights with elemental magic like lightning spells and fire, and attacks with his own physical weaponry. This is especially true with AlttP Ganon, who started his fight with Link by spellcasting and attacking physically, and only brought out more hax abilities as Link started to prove himself a more major threat.

Ganon has not ever started a fight with Sealing or EE. The times Ganon has sealed things in lore are things such as the sages powers and the sages themselves, both of which were done using his own power and not the triforce.

 

[Solacis]

Well in that case, Joker has a significantly better chance.

The match would start out as a contest of elemental magic, which Joker can easily react to and null/absorb with the right Personas. If Ganon has greater AP, Joker will know with Third Eye; and if the gap is notable enough, he'll switch to death spells and ailments. Since he'll see Ganon as a Shadow, he's more likely to go for death spells in that case, unless he specifically goes for technical combos.

Ren's mindhax scales to affecting those with comparable resistance to his own, and since Ren shrugs off mindhax capable of affecting 10^29 complex minds at once, there's no way Ganon's resisting unless he has some comparable resistance I'm not aware of.

Before I vote, what's the AP gap, here?

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

You're already aware of Ren's scaling chain, but Ganon's is

Baseline << Majora <<<< Fierce Diety <<<<<< Triforce (Ganon scales here at Low 2-C)

 

[Silentpixels]

wasn't ganon supposed to get mid-godly? if he does im not sure how ren can deal with that outside of things like mindhax

 

[Solacis]

Ren's about equal with Ganon, then.

In that case, Ren will switch to his hax once he realizes he's not gaining any ground through raw power. One Mudoon and Ganon's mind, soul and information get annihilated.

Voting Ren.

 

[Silentpixels]

yeah ren more likely to switch attacking methods faster than ganon is especially when ganon doesn't know a thing about joker and how much of a threat he is

ganon can still seal, but as said above he only does that when the being in question is a major threat to him or in last chance scenarios, moreso using magic and regular attacks first

also I did not know that mudoon kills the foes soul mind and body, not just the body

Ren FRA

 

[Solacis]

Persona death-hax affects the same thing every other standard attack can, which is the body, mind, soul and information. So yeah, death-hax ftw.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ganon's dark aura prevents info analysis as shown with OoT and Navi. Ganon is also leagues smarter because of ToW meanwhile Joker is an admittedly genius teenager. Death spells are...threatening. Still hate how they're treated as instantly spawning but I can't do anything about that.

 

[Solacis]

Well, we have actual footage of instant-spawn spells now, so that's settled at least.

The dark aura is a problem, though with their respective APs being roughly equal, it shouldn't really matter much. Spellfest to start, lack of decisive progress pushes Ren to go for death-hax, and that's the match.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Can you show it to me. Not because I don't believe you but because it would put my doubts at rest.

Also wanna point out that for some reason "but" autocorrected to "bitch" and that would've sucked if I didn't catch it in time before I posted.

 

[Solacis]

Autocorrect's just describing itself lol

Here it is. Junpei's Persona cast Agidyne, with the explosion of fire appearing instantly at Jin's location and blasting him away.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Also at 36:09, Yukari does the same thing. Take note of the fact that the shadow approached her then hit her after being unaffected, meaning it spawned at its location without travel time. Also, the wind is climbing upwards too, signifying it's directly under him.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Ren FRA, btw.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Direct counterpoint to that.