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Game of Thrones & A Song of Ice and Fire General Discussion

At 61 or 62 years old, Barristan killed in single combat Mero, better known as the Titan's Bastard, effortlessly, a taller, stronger, younger character, armed with a sword and who described by Jorah as a good fighter. Barristan had just a staff and no armour.
 
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Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
So what ?
In ASOIAF, some characters can beat other characters stronger than them.
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If Barristan and Arthur are equal in a sword fight, they need to be comparable in strength. Being able to beat someone stronger than you has literally nothing to do with what I’m saying.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
At 61 or 62 years old, Barristan killed in single combat Mero, better known as the Titan's Bastard, effortlessly, a taller, stronger, younger character, armed with a sword and who described by Jorah as a good fighter. Barristan had just a staff and no armour.
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Cool skill feat, doesn’t have anything to do with what I’m saying though.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
But what are you saying ? I don't really understand.
You're talking about the tier in general ?
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The point I’m trying to make is that the 9-B via scaling to Maelys just seems random. If they’re 9-B for other reasons, that’s fine, but with Maelys, I don’t think anyone should scale to him but Prime Barristan and Arthur Dayne.
 
All fighters in ASOIAF are logically in the same tier. Some are slightly stronger than others, but otherwise they are all in the same tier.
If Barristan Selmy is Wall level with his feat with Maelys, the other fighters in ASOIAF are too.
Saying that Barristan Selmy and Arthur Dayne are 9-B and the other fighters aren't doesn't make sense, because otherwise no other character would be able to block their attacks and no one could fight with them (which is wrong, because they can all fight each other in ASOIAF)
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
All fighters in ASOIAF are logically in the same tier. Some are slightly stronger than others, but otherwise they are all in the same tier.
If Barristan Selmy is Wall level with his feat with Maelys, the other fighters in ASOIAF are too.
Saying that Barristan Selmy and Arthur Dayne are 9-B and the other fighters aren't doesn't make sense, because otherwise no other character would be able to block their attacks and no one could fight with them (which is wrong, because they can all fight each other in ASOIAF)
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I literally said it’s fine if they’re 9-B for other reasons, just not via scaling to Maelys…

Also “everyone scales to everyone” is not valid reasoning for scaling unless the characters actually fight each other or have statements of scaling to each other.
 
LordTracer said:
I literally said it’s fine if they’re 9-B for other reasons, just not via scaling to Maelys…
Click to expand...
Yes I know
LordTracer said:
Also “everyone scales to everyone” is not valid reasoning for scaling unless the characters actually fight each other or have statements of scaling to each other.
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Why would there be a need for a feat or a statement in this case? As in real life, the characters can all fight each other, hurt each other, etc. A human being in ASOIAF would be Wall level and another Athlete level? It seems weird to me
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Why would there be a need for a feat or a statement in this case? As in real life, the characters can all fight each other, hurt each other, etc. A human being in ASOIAF would be Wall level and another Athlete level? It seems weird to me
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To be blunt, it being weird is not an argument. If Character A doesn’t fight Character B, isn’t stated to be capable of fighting Character B and never fought anyone that scales to Character B, then they simply do not scale.

And if we did scale real life, it would work the same way. Every human wouldn’t scale to every human just because it’d be weird if they didn’t.
 
LordTracer said:
Every human wouldn’t scale to every human just because it’d be weird if they didn’t.
Click to expand...
Except that in real life the fighters are all Athlete level, there is no Wall level, and the difference between a Human level and an Athlete lvl is small, compared to that of a Wall level and an Athlete level. If a Wall level faces an Athlete level in a sword fight, the latter would end up with his arms torn off at the first clash of sword against sword, something that has never happened in ASOIAF, no one has been the victim of this, even if a 15 year old kid faced an adult who has wall level feats
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Except that in real life the fighters are all Athlete level
Click to expand...
That is incorrect, Street level is also a thing in real life. Also being the same tier =/= everyone scaling to each other for no reason
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
and the difference between a Human level and an Athlete lvl is small, compared to that of a Wall level and an Athlete level. If a Wall level faces an Athlete level in a sword fight, the latter would end up with his arms torn off at the first clash of sword against sword, something that has never happened in ASOIAF, no one has been the victim of this, even if a 15 year old kid faced an adult who has wall level feats
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This doesn’t change the fact that we don’t scale everyone to everyone without solid evidence. I never said anyone should be downgraded to Athlete level or whatever, so your argument doesn’t really mean anything.
 
LordTracer said:
This doesn’t change the fact that we don’t scale everyone to everyone without solid evidence
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Jaime when he was 15 he crossed swords with the Smiling Knight, who himself fought with Arthur Dayne. So a 15 year old teenager is wall level, so it would make sense that any other adult fighter in ASOIAF would be wall level too right? Is this solid evidence?
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Jaime when he was 15 he crossed swords with the Smiling Knight, who himself fought with Arthur Dayne. So a 15 year old teenager is wall level, so it would make sense that any other adult fighter in ASOIAF would be wall level too right? Is this solid evidence?
Click to expand...
Crossed swords in what way? Did Jaime actually contend with the Smiling Knight?

And aside from the fact that Arthur is stronger than Jaime in his prime, as admitted by Jaime himself, meaning that fifteen year old Jaime would heavily downscale at best, I see no reason why every adult fighter should scale to him. Being a teenager doesn’t instantly put Jaime below everyone else.
 
LordTracer said:
Did Jaime actually contend with the Smiling Knight?
Click to expand...
Yes
LordTracer said:
And aside from the fact that Arthur is stronger than Jaime in his prime, as admitted by Jaime himself
Click to expand...
Jaime never said "Arthur at his prime", because Arthur was already at his prime when he died.

So :
  • Jaime when he was 15 he faced the Smiling Knight, who himself faced Arthur Dayne in his prime. But still, Jaime says Arthur Dayne is stronger than him, but he also says he can beat him with his speed and skill.
  • During their confrontation, Jaime blocked Brienne's attacks but he says that she is still stronger than him physically.
  • There are plenty of examples like that in ASOIAF

Conclusion: ASOIAF characters can face characters stronger than them. But the question now is, how does the tiering system work in this kind of case?
 
Actually, now that I’m looking closer, where does the 929,450.25 joule value on Maelys’ page come from?
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
But otherwise what does downscaled mean?
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Downscaling means that a character scales to another, but to a somewhat lower degree because they’re shown to be weaker.

For example, let’s say Character A is baseline 9-B. Character B can hold their own against Character A, but is clearly weaker. Character B would then downscale to 9-C+.
 
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LordTracer said:
Downscaling means that a character scales to another, but to a somewhat lower degree because they’re shown to be weaker.

For example, let’s say Character A is baseline 9-B. Character B can hold their own against Character A, but is clearly weaker. Character A would then downscale to 9-C+.
Click to expand...
Oh ok I see.
A revision for the ASOIAF profiles (about the tier) is necessary in this case.
 
LordTracer said:
Downscaling means that a character scales to another, but to a somewhat lower degree because they’re shown to be weaker.

For example, let’s say Character A is baseline 9-B. Character B can hold their own against Character A, but is clearly weaker. Character A would then downscale to 9-C+.
Click to expand...
And thanks for the info btw
 
I'll start by showing all the big AP/LS feats of the saga (probably tomorrow) to see what you think, and then I'll talk about scaling (about human characters)
 
I tried to do a rematch of the versus between Jon Snow and Mister Satan but nobody is interested, can I still remove the match from their profiles since it is more than 4 years old and very outdated?
 
If the match is no longer valid, then yes, you may. Alternatively, you can ask in VS removal thread, I think.
 
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