Fused lilith vs Shinobu Oshino

[speedster352]

Fused Lilith vs Shinobu Oshino​

SBA
Speed equalized

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Shinobu wins if her "instakill cut against supernatural beings" works

Because that sounds op against a ******* DEVIL, Lilith win condition is playing at range, she will do it if is scared of dying like when she literally run away from Asta

 

[speedster352]

Shinobu wins if her "instakill cut against supernatural beings" works

Because that sounds op against a ******* DEVIL, Lilith win condition is playing at range, she will do it if is scared of dying like when she literally run away from Asta

They start off with intangibility and have high regen and conceptual fire and ice and this is the fuison

 

[theultimate5105]

Lilith resists Shinobus passive mindhax (not sure if it is layered) so Lilith doesn't instantly lose

 

[Kachon123]

Following

 

[theultimate5105]

Shinobu wins if her "instakill cut against supernatural beings" works

I am assuming it has NPI to interact with them and is able to kill High Regen because if not it will not instant kill

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

They start off with intangibility and have high regen and conceptual fire and ice and this is the fuison

I know that is the fusion

And their conceptual destruction is not an instakill against persons, Nacht tanked a lot of their attacks without being "conceptually destroyed"

High regen does not stop you from instanly dying

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I am assuming it has NPI to interact with them and is able to kill High Regen because if not it will not instant kill

Durability Negation, Death Manipulation, and Non-Physical Interaction with Kokorowatari sword (Can cut through any supernatural being and kill them with a single scratch, including ghosts and selectively tangible beings, useless otherwise, as it simply phases through targets without dealing any harm to them)

 

[speedster352]

I know that is the fusion

And their conceptual destruction is not an instakill against persons, Nacht tanked a lot of their attacks without being "conceptually destroyed"

High regen does not stop you from instanly dying

Yes but they will start off with the freezing sun and they have layered passive power null

Durability Negation, Death Manipulation, and Non-Physical Interaction with Kokorowatari sword (Can cut through any supernatural being and kill them with a single scratch, including ghosts and selectively tangible beings, useless otherwise, as it simply phases through targets without dealing any harm to them)

Read devil biology it won't work

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Yes but they will start off with the freezing sun and they have layered passive power null

Read devil biology it won't work

Because you say so? The swords kills anything that is a supernatural being, is does not need to destroy any heart or anything, your life ENDS, period

 

[speedster352]

Because you say so? The swords kills anything that is a supernatural being, is does not need to destroy any heart or anything, your life ENDS, period

They can dodge and they have layered power null ask the BC supporters

 

[speedster352]

Because you say so? The swords kills anything that is a supernatural being, is does not need to destroy any heart or anything, your life ENDS, period

They can freeze and burn it conceptually so it won't reach them nacht survived their physical attacks and they were most likely holding back.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

They can dodge and they have layered power null ask the BC supporters

Youtou Kokorowatari is a demon sword that harms and effectively kills oddities

Arcane Stage: Arcane Stage encompasses mages who have deeply tapped into Forbidden Magic, and mages with the ability to interfere with the otherworld[21]. For the former, characters that are able to borrow the power of what would qualify as a devil in their respective verse (Unholy Manipulation) should be able to destroy the heart of a devil. As for the latter, not much is known as of now.

+ The sword is not magical= is not power nulled by the Devils

And don´t tell me to go to ask the BC supporters like every single time you write a message here, ty

 

[speedster352]

Youtou Kokorowatari is a demon sword that harms and effectively kills oddities

Arcane Stage: Arcane Stage encompasses mages who have deeply tapped into Forbidden Magic, and mages with the ability to interfere with the otherworld[21]. For the former, characters that are able to borrow the power of what would qualify as a devil in their respective verse (Unholy Manipulation) should be able to destroy the heart of a devil. As for the latter, not much is known as of now.

+ The sword is not magical= is not power nulled by the Devils

And don´t tell me to go to ask the BC supporters like every single time you write a message here, ty

Range: Standard melee range normally, far higher with mind manipulation (Capable of affecting entire armies) | Standard melee range normally, several meters with Kokorowatari, tens of meters via throwing swords | Standard melee range normally, several meters with Kokorowatari, much higher via throwing swords, shockwaves, shapeshifting, etc

It won't reach lilith has they have the range advantage and they can conceptually freeze and burn the attack passively they have average intelligence

 

[CloverDragon03]

Their Conceptual Manipulation is not passive. In fact, it was only brought up the moment they actually started trying

 

[speedster352]

Their Conceptual Manipulation is not passive. In fact, it was only brought up the moment they actually started trying

Yes but they are fused and have average intelligence so they will use their magic and they have the range advantage

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yes but they are fused and have average intelligence so they will use their magic and they have the range advantage

Yes that is true, I'm just clarifying

 

[speedster352]

Yes that is true, I'm just clarifying

Thanks

Youtou Kokorowatari is a demon sword that harms and effectively kills oddities

Arcane Stage: Arcane Stage encompasses mages who have deeply tapped into Forbidden Magic, and mages with the ability to interfere with the otherworld[21]. For the former, characters that are able to borrow the power of what would qualify as a devil in their respective verse (Unholy Manipulation) should be able to destroy the heart of a devil. As for the latter, not much is known as of now.

+ The sword is not magical= is not power nulled by the Devils

And don´t tell me to go to ask the BC supporters like every single time you write a message here, ty

Now that I countered your arguements any thing else?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Thanks

Now that I countered your arguements any thing else?

You did not counter anything but okey

 

[speedster352]

You did not counter anything but okey

Lilith fusion has superior range, can counter the hax with passive powernull and conceptually freezing and burning it and by range spaming and one shot with freezing sun

 

[CloverDragon03]

Now that I countered your arguements any thing else?

You did not counter that. This looks like a very clear-cut way for Shinobu to destroy Fused Lilith's heart

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Lilith fusion has superior range, can counter the hax with passive powernull and conceptually freezing and burning it and by range spaming and one shot with freezing sun

Can´t counter anything that is not magic, can´t counter Shinobu superior AP, can´t counter she hiding in shadows etc

Not comenting anymore because you obviously does not want to listen and only repeat the same reasons 5 times without reading anything

 

[speedster352]

You did not counter that. This looks like a very clear-cut way for Shinobu to destroy Fused Lilith's heart

Lilith fusion has superior range, can counter the hax with passive powernull and conceptually freezing and burning it and by range spaming and one shot with freezing sun

They also have passive forcfield creation and devil physiology

Can´t counter anything that is not magic, can´t counter Shinobu superior AP, can´t counter she hiding in shadows etc

Not comenting anymore because you obviously does not want to listen and only repeat the same reasons 5 times without reading anything

They can burn and freeze shadows and light. what is her ap anyway?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I may be wrong, but wasn't there a thread where it was accepted that Lilith/Naamah has no conceptual manipulation but non-physical interaction?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Lilith fusion has superior range, can counter the hax with passive powernull and conceptually freezing and burning it and by range spaming and one shot with freezing sun

They're both in-character so you gotta think about what Lilith actually would do. The Power Null is not as broken as you think, as it's only really against magic. And if Shinobu has superior AP, Freezing Sun is not one-shotting at all

They also have passive forcfield creation and devil physiology

Passive Forcefield Creation only works on weaker spells, so it's ineffective

Can´t counter anything that is not magic, can´t counter Shinobu superior AP, can´t counter she hiding in shadows etc

Not comenting anymore because you obviously does not want to listen and only repeat the same reasons 5 times without reading anything

Naamah and Lilith individually are stated to be able to burn "shadows, light, and even invisible concepts" so there is actually a counter to her hiding in shadows, but the rest is true.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I may be wrong, but wasn't there a thread where it was accepted that Lilith/Naamah has no conceptual manipulation but non-physical interaction?

That thread was made but it was agreed on to be Limited Conceptual Manipulation

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Naamah and Lilith individually are stated to be able to burn "shadows, light, and even invisible concepts" so there is actually a counter to her hiding in shadows, but the rest is true.

True, in that regard, but I was refering to Shinobu using it to dodge one attack, then appearing again, the technique would be useless a second time

 

[speedster352]

They're both in-character so you gotta think about what Lilith actually would do. The Power Null is not as broken as you think, as it's only really against magic. And if Shinobu has superior AP, Freezing Sun is not one-shotting at all

Passive Forcefield Creation only works on weaker spells, so it's ineffective

Naamah and Lilith individually are stated to be able to burn "shadows, light, and even invisible concepts" so there is actually a counter to her hiding in shadows, but the rest is true.

I still stand with the fact that they have superior range, npi and limited conceptual attacks which can erase the concept of Shinobu(I am surprised they don't have duraboty negation). They have intangibity and inorganic and devil phyioglogsy and they can figure a way to win with average intelligence. What are both win cons?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I still stand with the fact that they have superior range, npi and limited conceptual attacks which can erase the concept of Shinobu(I am surprised they don't have duraboty negation). They have intangibity and inorganic and devil phyioglogsy and they can figure a way to win with average intelligence. What are both win cons?

"Erase the concept of Shinobu" No, just no. That's taking the idea of Conceptual Manipulation and just running laps with it to make them do stuff they're never even shown capable of doing. That's not gonna fly

 

[CloverDragon03]

True, in that regard, but I was refering to Shinobu using it to dodge one attack, then appearing again, the technique would be useless a second time

That's fair. Shinobu could probably do that once but then never again

 

[speedster352]

"Erase the concept of Shinobu" No, just no. That's taking the idea of Conceptual Manipulation and just running laps with it to make them do stuff they're never even shown capable of doing. That's not gonna fly

That's fair. Shinobu could probably do that once but then never again

Sorry but they can just freeze her since she has no resistance to ice manipulation that's a likely win cons since they have the range advantage

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Sorry but they can just freeze her since she has no resistance to ice manipulation that's a likely win cons since they have the range advantage

High-mid regen+ intangibility

 

[speedster352]

High-mid regen+ intangibility

They have NPI how many times do I have to say it. Also flash freezing ignores regen and they have limited conceptual manipulation. Also the shadow thing won't even work the first time since they start off with their magic.

 

[Kflare63]

They have NPI how many times do I have to say it. Also flash freezing ignores regen and they have limited conceptual manipulation. Also the shadow thing won't even work the first time since they start off with their magic.

her intangibility is fog based

 

[speedster352]

her intangibility is fog based

They can even affect concepts such as shadow and ice so fog is not new. They literally destroyed a world that doesn't even exist stated by nacht himself.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

They have NPI how many times do I have to say it. Also flash freezing ignores regen and they have limited conceptual manipulation. Also the shadow thing won't even work the first time since they start off with their magic.

Keep using the conceptual argument, when clover already adressed that you are smoking weed

 

[speedster352]

Keep using the conceptual argument, when clover already adressed that you are smoking weed

Powers & Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Devil Physiology, Enhanced Senses, Acrobatics, Extrasensory Perception (People with magic can sense the surrounding flow of Mana as well as other people's Magic Power), Magic (Attribute: Demon Ice Magic, which allows her to generate and manipulate a sinister form of Ice Magic that can freeze concepts), Aura (Magic amount worlds above the likes of the elves and the Magic Knight Captains, who can induce a incredible pressure in their surroundings and even neutralize magic spells by sheer amount of magic), Forcefield Creation (People with a large amount of Magic Power have a forcefield of Mana that naturally protects them from incoming attacks), Statistics Amplification, Energy Projection, Danmaku, True Flight, Elemental Intangibility, Inorganic Physiology (Type 1. While she is turned into ice), Power Nullification (Magic Power vastly superior to Zagred and the elves', who can neutralize spells in their presence), Regeneration (High. Comparable to Naamah who can Regenerate his body from nearby flames), Non-Physical Interaction (Can burn construct that lacks any substance or things that don't exist), Devil Ice Magic, Heat Manipulation, limited Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3; can freeze and affect concepts), Fusionism (Can fuse with Naamah), Pain Tolerance (Unaffected by having an arm cut off or being sliced in half), Resistance to Deconstruction (Comparable to Zagred), Sealing and Pocket Reality Manipulation (Broke through Nacht's shadow world), Heat Manipulation with Mana Skin (Mana Skin allows even the average Magic Knights to run across the Yultim Volcano, a Grand Magic Region which can reduce a human into ashes), Power Nullification with Mana Skin (Mana Skin allowed Noelle to cast Sea Dragon's Roar under the presence of an elf) and Sleep Manipulation with Mana Skin (Leopold was able to overcome the effects of Fragil's Snow Magic, which puts her opponents to sleep). | Same as before plus Demon Flame Magic (Fused with Naamah)

You were saying?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

You were saying?

Speedster using the whole powerset of a character to make his point? How original and unexpected

 

[speedster352]

Speedster using the whole powerset of a character to make his point? How original and unexpected

I just don't like repeating myself. The win con for Lillith fusion is superior range and freezing(they have NPI even for things that don't exist so intagibity won't work). That's all I can come up with.

 

[Kflare63]

how that's worded in her profile her NPI seems to only apply to non-existent things