Further Guilty Gear Revisions

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

It's literally stated that to even interact with "the real world" they have to "downconvert" themselves. So no one would scale to them imo.

I see, i guess thats a "nope" for the Physical Low 1-C

Btw does the High 5-A to 4-B feat are accepted yet?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I see, i guess thats a "nope" for the Physical Low 1-C

Btw does the High 5-A to 4-B feat are accepted yet?

Haven't been evaluated, no.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I'm going to contacting some of calc members later for evaluating that calc

 

[Xantospoc]

Your blaintly not reading into it, all these nagos are the same existence across independent segments.
The only thing you blatantly said is "oh these vampires exist in the timeline so their clearly bound by it" even though any time hax argument you'd bring up now would get shot down due to I-no in her Goddess state having time hax on a much higher temporal level since this even froze Jack-O who's a Valentine who's born right in the backyard. And transcendence over time only being hax could only get slapped on the aboslute world not nago so asserting as a hax transcendence with no evidence is very arbitrary to assume off the bat. Plus theirs a clear gap between the physical low 1-C Nago and slayer are getting and the backyard low 1-C. Which regrettingly I should of told Ultima this back in the first CRT about the backyard upscaling above underworld hill.

Valentines are NOT beyond space time. Ramlethal getting killed across timeline, Nagoriyuki being called an outright copy, Ariels being affected.
Just stop this wanking for a verse that without hax is only 4B at most

I don't think every character gonna get back to low 1C
but I think Happy Chaos should get low 1C hax because he can seal backyard in to single tome

Agreed. Although not on physical

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@Antvasima @DontTalkDT What do you guys think?

Also ant, maybe now its time for calling the staffs for evaluating this, tho @Dragonmasterxyz and @Theglassman12 wouldn't interested so don't tag them here

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure. Can somebody explain the arguments here in a single post please?

 

[Ikelaggan]

Okay, my arguments here is that with the new info given on demi-humans like Nago transcending genetics, physics, and even time he should be at low 1-C. Bedman being stated to be multi-dimensional should definitely solid state him into low 1-C.

 

[Ikelaggan]

Valentines are NOT beyond space time. Ramlethal getting killed across timeline

Your trying to grandstanding that you need acausality type 2 to be beyond space and time which is not a requirement for the tier at all.

 

[Ikelaggan]

It's literally stated that to even interact with "the real world" they have to "downconvert" themselves. So no one would scale to them imo.

It's a down convert to planck time to exist in the "real world" but not the paradox ones so with these nagos being able to interact with that type of time frame is pretty insane for anything finite speed wise.

 

[Ikelaggan]

It's explictly called a Saint Oratorio Cannon the technique Sol used against her.

Your mixing that up asuka's cannon from his lab back in Xrd, and it's never called that strive.

Heck, the Saint Oratorio is made out of the same stuff of the outrage.

Spell/power source not material.

Literally you are wrong about everything

You literally just spewed nothing but hot headed headcannon on the spot here not that it matters cause your not sourcing any of these claims.

 

[Xantospoc]

Your mixing that up asuka's cannon from his lab back in Xrd, and it's never called that strive.

Literally the same stuff. Outrage and Saint Oratorio are the same power source. And again Goddess I-No > Ariels. So it's not stronger

Spell/power source not material.

Material doesn't matter.

You literally just spewed nothing but hot headed headcannon on the spot here not that it matters cause your not sourcing any of these claims.

You wrote Sol scales above infinite nad now believe Nagoriyuki is Low 1C, you are spewing nonsense

 

[Ikelaggan]

Literally the same stuff. Outrage and Saint Oratorio are the same power source.

Outrage is a weapon, saint Oratorio is spell get out of my face with your headcannon.

And again Goddess I-No > Ariels. So it's not stronger

Outrage with amped with zealpods would be a additional power source in with saint Ontario's so it literally would be more massively above the base saint Oratorio from xrd.

Material doesn't matter.

It does when your mixing up two different weapons.

You wrote Sol scales above infinite nad now believe Nagoriyuki is Low 1C, you are spewing nonsense

That's was literally before strive dlc drop hot out the water so don't go mincing words on that.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure. Can somebody explain the arguments here in a single post please?

Can others also make attempts in this regard?

 

[Xantospoc]

Outrage is a weapon, saint Oratorio is spell get out of my face with your headcannon.

Same thing really. Infinite

Outrage with amped with zealpods would be a additional power source in with saint Ontario's so it literally would be more massively above the base saint Oratorio from xrd.

No it wouldn't. Literally isn't. Infinite can't be above infinite

It does when your mixing up two different weapons.

No... it's definitively not

That's was literally before strive dlc drop hot out the water so don't go mincing words on that.

Who cares? Statements aren't facts, especially from someone as insane as chaos (and that is contradicted byt he DLC itself)

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

No it wouldn't. Literally isn't. Infinite can't be above infinite

Actually... There are multiple degrees of infinite.

 

[Xantospoc]

Actually... There are multiple degrees of infinite.

Not from the same specific spell

 

[Ikelaggan]

No it wouldn't. Literally isn't. Infinite can't be above infinite

Aleph number - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Do your research, you can have aleph gaps of infinities.

No... it's definitively not

You said the outrage that sol wields you know junkyard mk.2 is the same weapon as asuka's lab firing it off.

Who cares? Statements aren't facts, especially from someone as insane as chaos (and that is contradicted byt he DLC itself)

You'd have to prove he's even lying about this in the first place, which in character he has no reason to lie in front of I-no. Calling him crazy isn't an argument cause now your asserting everything he's says as a lie now which you haven't proved.

Not from the same specific spell

Even if you say thier the same spell he's still adding additional more power to it with the zealpods so there is a higher aleph gap in power.

 

[Xantospoc]

Aleph number - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Do your research, you can have aleph gaps of infinities.

Who cares about Alephs? Nobody. Because it has nothing to do with it. There is no 'infinite gaps above infinite' here.

You said the outrage that sol wields you know junkyard mk.2 is the same weapon as asuka's lab firing it off.

I didn't say that. I said it was the same spell. Which is factual, btw. The Saint Oratorio was at most above the attack he used REGARDLESS of amps, if not because Sol survived despite being vastly below his normal self

You'd have to prove he's even lying about this in the first place, which in character he has no reason to lie in front of I-no. Calling him crazy isn't an argument cause now your asserting everything he's says as a lie now which you haven't proved.

Except now the burden is on positive, when the arcade mode contradicts it.

He clearly says it's a copy in one. In another he trascends. Sooo... nooo

Even if you say thier the same spell he's still adding additional more power to it with the zealpods so there is a higher aleph gap in power.

You have to prove the higher Aleph. If anything it shows only now he is using its full power to resist the recoil.

Again, if you have to forcefully highball the series, I will kindly ask to lock the thread, given you have to make to force the horrenduous profiles we used to have. I can't wait to get Bridget back to Low 1-C again

 

[Ikelaggan]

Who cares about Alephs? Nobody. Because it has nothing to do with it. There is no 'infinite gaps above infinite' here.

No, it's just you right now saying this and to brush it under the rug and ignoring that the saint Oratorio launching device that asuka was firing at Ariels was still weaker in comparison to even the fireseal at base with no flashing fang tearing apart Justice's armor during the crusades with same outrage technology realized using saint Oratorio was still nothing to the higher potential sol used with the stronger forms of the junkyard later on. So saying there's infinite gaps of power increase when the first weapon here (saint Oratorio cannon) is being surpassed by a other weapon (fireseal) that's also getting progressively more stronger with each new iteration there's a clear gap increase of infinites.

Except now the burden is on positive, when the arcade mode contradicts it.

He clearly says it's a copy in one. In another he trascends. Sooo... nooo

He's talking about the nago in the "real world" where the main story is, where with dlc/arcade it's the paradox world with infinite timelines with multiple nagos in it so most of these nagos are going to be much weaker than the true nago in "The real world"

You have to prove the higher Aleph. If anything it shows only now he is using its full power to resist the recoil.

If he's firing infinite energy and there's a clear gap between the start of the best and full power that's an Aleph gap.

Again, if you have to forcefully highball the series, I will kindly ask to lock the thread, given you have to make to force the horrenduous profiles we used to have. I can't wait to get Bridget back to Low 1-C again

Bloody hell, you act like I'm the one who said everyone should just scale. I was trying to only get God tiers and who actually fought a God tier character the similar way the low 2-C meta used to work, not the weird scaling chart milly rocking made cause even I was sceptical on it due to GGAC characters being completely MIA. And you can lock the thread until the dlc actually fully comes out spring 2022 and everything is set in stone we can maybe bring back the topic on hand.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Again, if you have to forcefully highball the series, I will kindly ask to lock the thread, given you have to make to force the horrenduous profiles we used to have. I can't wait to get Bridget back to Low 1-C again

That's you putting words in his mouth. I suggest you calm down and actually read what is being proposed.

 

[Xantospoc]

No, it's just you right now saying this and to brush it under the rug and ignoring that the saint Oratorio launching device that asuka was firing at Ariels was still weaker in comparison to even the fireseal at base with no flashing fang tearing apart Justice's armor during the crusades with same outrage technology realized using saint Oratorio was still nothing to the higher potential sol used with the stronger forms of the junkyard later on. So saying there's infinite gaps of power increase when the first weapon here (saint Oratorio cannon) is being surpassed by a other weapon (fireseal) that's also getting progressively more stronger with each new iteration there's a clear gap increase of infinites.ù

It's not below anything XD

THe Saint Oratorio is above any character in GG.

There is also no proof they surpassed a gap of infinite. So good luck

He's talking about the nago in the "real world" where the main story is, where with dlc/arcade it's the paradox world with infinite timelines with multiple nagos in it so most of these nagos are going to be much weaker than the true nago in "The real world"

So it's a copy. Period.
Also, there is only one timeline and endless possibilites, that are made 'unreal' by the Backyard. It's only I-No presence that is keeping up.

You can't have a 'main timeline Low 1-C' Nago and copies. Either it's one or anything

If he's firing infinite energy and there's a clear gap between the start of the best and full power that's an Aleph gap.

No it's not

Bloody hell, you act like I'm the one who said everyone should just scale. I was trying to only get God tiers and who actually fought a God tier, not the weird scaling chart milly rocking made cause even I was sceptical on it due to GGAC characters being completely MIA. And you can lock the thread until the dlc actually fully comes out spring 2022 and everything is set in stone we can maybe bring back the topic on hand.

Yes, you are. Your attempt to upscale Sol above 4-B is ludicrous and stretches any logic.

No, he is not infinite in terms of power
No, Slayer is not somehow above time
Heck, no character can even resist Axl Low's timestop without hax on their own (Happy Chaos, I-No). We have seen IRamlethal kept getting killed by I-No across timelines (until she wasn't) and Ariels was affected by Axl's timestop

Mind you, Chaos has been confirmed canonically around base I-No (as even the weaker copy of Nagoriyuki overwhelmed him).

That's you putting words in his mouth. I suggest you calm down and actually read what is being proposed.

Yeah, except even Goddess I-No, the only one explictly trascending time and being a gooddess in the verse (basically Low 2-C), was so far above the cast they had to force an excuse of her not wanting to lose herself to hold her back and stomp the verse

I am not going to make anyone wank this series.

 

[Xantospoc]

@Antvasima
Given the lack of collaboration and obstruction of people desperate to highball the verse out of scarce statements, I ask if possible to lock this thread.
If they want so badly to highball this verse, they will do on their own, I am washing my hands

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

"lack of collaboration and obstruction"

Wants to stop any discussion and close the thread

Anyways.

 

[Xantospoc]

How else would you call clear force highballing of a verse through scant statements?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Someone that simply has a different stance. Through discussion we can evaluate if said stance is appropriate to the standards of the site, and thus, reach a consensus for a revision.

Even I personally believe that the statements for the vampires don't scale to absolutely anybody, as it is quite explicitly stated they need to literally lower themselves to even interact with the world.

Again, calm the hecc down. Explain through scans whatnot why these things simply can't be the way they are being stated to be, so that we can call staff in order to evaluate. That's all that needs to be done.

 

[Xantospoc]

I don't believe any character should scale at all, not even other vampires.
They don't trascend anything, otherwise Slayer wouldn't need Sharon's blood or to release power against Sol, or Nagoriyuki wouldn't hold back lol

This is at most some hax due to vampires (like other Yokais) coming from the Backyard, but nothing relevant.

Nagoriyuki having alternate selves, other denizens of the Backyard being shown to be affected by time manipulation and other issues.
Plus a stupid thing like Sol scaling to infinite.
Sorry, but I am not enabling wank in my threads

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

If you aren't willing to have a discussion, straight up don't make threads asking for the opinions of others.

 

[Xantospoc]

Oh, I am willing to have discussions.

But beginning to talk about Alephs in a series like Guilty Gear is stretching, when simpler than that, Sol is NOT infinite in terms of powers, or they'd have not used the Cannon in the first place.

Now if we are going to take every single statement to wank a series that barely showcases planetary feats... yeah, I am done discussing.

 

[Ikelaggan]

In my last words I say there are characters that should scale since my Bedman statement was never debunked, the true nago should be able to scale to this transcendence over genetics, physics and even time given his stats as bug in system of world. But if there's nothing to left much to discuss over other than running around in circles on how the scaling should work I got nothing much to discuss right now.

 

[Xantospoc]

Bedman is dead, because of his human body as if I'd care about a guy who lost to Robo Ky and Venom. He doesn't have ANYTHING to scale from, but being an inconsistent character who gets weaker the further it goes through the story mode

The true Nago is not anything like that because he is just a common Yokai as otherwise beings that trascend time like I-No as a goddess wouldn't be a big deal that can control the universe. Heck, he even has blood, so so much for 'genetics'. It's just unalyzeable (likely because he drank a lot like Slayer or again)

As simple as that, nobody is Low 1-C (save for some hax). And they are lucky to be 4-B

 

[Ikelaggan]

Cause I've been at least compriseable to at least accept 4-B and even do the calc myself. Even though I could of just easy walked away out of this like your everyday ***** complaining about marvel and just let the verse take a shot in the foot into small country and call it a day, but I haven't so far.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

like your everyday ***** complaining about marvel

Keep these things out of the thread. It's heated enough already.

 

[Xantospoc]

You shouldn't accept 4-B, you should be THANKFUL this verse is 4-B when nobody blew up a star.

Even though the verse will likely not get even that, but High 5-A.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

You shouldn't accept 4-B, you should be THANKFUL this verse is 4-B when nobody blew up a star.

Even though the verse will likely not get even that, but High 5-A.

Just saying

You don't need to blow up a solar system to be 4-B. You just need to display the ability to generate the energy to do so with a single attack.

That can be achieved in a myriad of ways through feats. Though some of them do have ruling now to prevent exaggerated statistics. But even so; if they showcase higher ratings, either through consistent statements and/or other contextual stuff, it is what it is.

 

[Xantospoc]

I strongly disagree with such a view. THis stuff has to be backed up by actual feats, not just statements. Otherwise we get wank.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Then you're in the wrong site.

 

[Xantospoc]

Yeah, which is why we once had Jack-O VS Mxyzpltk.
The style is plainly wrong

 

[Ikelaggan]

You shouldn't accept 4-B, you should be THANKFUL this verse is 4-B when nobody blew up a star.

Even though the verse will likely not get even that, but High 5-A.

Why are you so mad about it, I'm just trying to lend a hand as all. And your just bashing me here just for having different insight on the scans. I ain't saying I'm better/knowledge than anyone else here or the peak of the know how on the verse either. I'm just a guy with a different view point.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

That's argument from incredulity.

 

[Xantospoc]

Why are you so mad about it, I'm just trying to lend a hand as all. And your just bashing me here just for having different insight on the scans. I ain't saying I'm better/knowledge than anyone else here or the peak of the know how on the verse either. I'm just a guy with a different view point.

You were claiming Sol was Low 2-C for breaking the gateway of the cube off some lines

The scans you provided are from an unreliable character claiming unbased stuff that has been throughoutly contradicted by events in story