Frieren vs Aqua (Konosuba)

[Flashlight237]

Worth a shot, I mean... Frieren is a mage who is a millennia old because of this DnD thing where people randomly threw triple-digit numbers at people with pointy ears and called it a day. Seems simple, right? Well, Aqua is a goddess. Granted Aqua is a goddess who spends her skill points on party favors, but still. Either way, despite their age and experience, Frieren and Aqua both have some serious issues to work out. Frieren is often either sleeping or getting eaten by a mimic over some weird 99% chance. Aqua is often known as the "Useless Goddess" due to her tendency to whine or get drunk and sometimes even flat-out stupidity. Sure, Aqua has buffs, but since Aqua's luck is so terrible that it serves as a direct counter to Kazuma's Second-to-God luck, it's pretty unlikely that she'll get one off.

Aqua has sealing, which iirc can be done with a thought... Problem is even the standard Zoltraak had overcome standard-grade sealing and power-null. What can do Frieren in is the fact that she's a complete glass cannon, or at least that's what the profile says because nobody tried gauging any durability feats for the verse. Frieren gets nommed on by Mimics; even giving a Mimic a bite-force quotient of 50 would be a massive upgrade to that stat.

As for Aqua... Well, one hit and Aqua is boned, but Aqua also has that against Frieren, so... Yeah.

This match-up will be between Frieren and Archpriest Aqua (as I'm pretty sure Goddess Aqua would just stomp). As for speed... I'll leave that unequalized for now as VBW speed equalization logic can be a bit finicky. That's not mentioning the default range would give both contestants plenty of time to dodge each other's crap. Let's give each of our combatants one day of prep. That should be enough for them to figure out how to handle one another.

Anyway, here are their profiles:

Frieren's Profile
Aqua's Profile

Who takes this?

Frieren: 0
Useless Goddess: 0
Inconclusive: 0

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Doesn't aqua get unfathomably outskilled here?

 

[Flashlight237]

Doesn't aqua get unfathomably outskilled here?

Not really, she is apparently Eris' senpai (even if she doesn't act like it pretty much all the time).: https://konosuba.fandom.com/wiki/Eris

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Not really, she is apparently Eris' senpai (even if she doesn't act like it pretty much all the time).: https://konosuba.fandom.com/wiki/Eris

Being someone's boss doesn't help much as a intelligence feat lol. Aqua's own page refers to how she lacks basic analytic skills and self awareness to use any knowledge she has effectively.

 

[AThe1412]

Frieren is only a glass cannon if you ignore the durability amp from Mana and Defensive Magic. Also, she gets nommed by Mimics frequently but she never took any damage from them hence why she even willingly takes the 1% chance to get a grimoire. Aqua, no matter whether she's in her Archpriest or Goddess key, can't do anything to Frieren. She's too weak and incompetent for that.

 

[Flashlight237]

Frieren is only a glass cannon if you ignore the durability amp from Mana and Defensive Magic. Also, she gets nommed by Mimics frequently but she never took any damage from them hence why she even willingly takes the 1% chance to get a grimoire. Aqua, no matter whether she's in her Archpriest or Goddess key, can't do anything to Frieren. She's too weak and incompetent for that.

Funny you mention Mimics... I just did a calc on those damn things.

 

[FrenzyUND]

Worth a shot, I mean... Frieren is a mage who is a millennia old because of this DnD thing where people randomly threw triple-digit numbers at people with pointy ears and called it a day. Seems simple, right? Well, Aqua is a goddess. Granted Aqua is a goddess who spends her skill points on party favors, but still. Either way, despite their age and experience, Frieren and Aqua both have some serious issues to work out. Frieren is often either sleeping or getting eaten by a mimic over some weird 99% chance. Aqua is often known as the "Useless Goddess" due to her tendency to whine or get drunk and sometimes even flat-out stupidity. Sure, Aqua has buffs, but since Aqua's luck is so terrible that it serves as a direct counter to Kazuma's Second-to-God luck, it's pretty unlikely that she'll get one off.

Aqua has sealing, which iirc can be done with a thought... Problem is even the standard Zoltraak had overcome standard-grade sealing and power-null. What can do Frieren in is the fact that she's a complete glass cannon, or at least that's what the profile says because nobody tried gauging any durability feats for the verse. Frieren gets nommed on by Mimics; even giving a Mimic a bite-force quotient of 50 would be a massive upgrade to that stat.

As for Aqua... Well, one hit and Aqua is boned, but Aqua also has that against Frieren, so... Yeah.

This match-up will be between Frieren and Archpriest Aqua (as I'm pretty sure Goddess Aqua would just stomp). As for speed... I'll leave that unequalized for now as VBW speed equalization logic can be a bit finicky. That's not mentioning the default range would give both contestants plenty of time to dodge each other's crap. Let's give each of our combatants one day of prep. That should be enough for them to figure out how to handle one another.

Anyway, here are their profiles:

Frieren's Profile
Aqua's Profile

Who takes this?

Frieren: 0
Useless Goddess: 0
Inconclusive: 0

Luck is not important in battle, Konosuba-wise, unless you're using luck-based skills. And Aqua with buffs tied Kazuma in rock-paper-scissors as per Yorimichi 3.

Frieren is not a glass cannon, she took some big hits from Solitär and survived just fine.

Aqua is a tank though, Frieren can't hurt her, no attack in Konosuba can injury her while she wears her Divine Relic according to the author himself, and nothing in Frieren compares to the firepower that exists in Konosuba.

Frieren characters are below supersonic in speed to the point they are hopeless trying to catch a supersonic bird without tricking it. But to not make this super boring and assume a speed equalized fight, Frieren doesn't really have a winning condition, unless she could somehow figure out Aqua's Hagoromo grants her her immunity to damage, and somehow gets it off Aqua... even then, Aqua's base defensive stats + buffas and healing is probably too much for Frieren to overcome.

Frieren can fly, but Sacred Break Spell nullifies flight magic (shown on V11), so Aqua could either get close and beat Frieren up physically, or drawn her with Sacred Create Water.

Still, Frieren might be hard to put down physically due to her high mana and shields which are pretty strong, but hey, again, I forgot, Sacred Break Spell lol, it'd break through Frieren's shield like glass, since it can even break through the barrier around the Demon King's castle, something able to eat dozens of nuke level Explosion spells.

 

[FrenzyUND]

Being someone's boss doesn't help much as a intelligence feat lol. Aqua's own page refers to how she lacks basic analytic skills and self awareness to use any knowledge she has effectively.

Which is a false statement, Konosuba profiles have more wrong information than otherwise.

Aqua's quick and smart thinking in battle, using her knowleadge and powers to nullify the enemy's flight ability ( which she'd do against Frieren ):

- V11 Chapter 05.

Aqua makes a deep analysis of how a fight between her and Kazuma would play out, stating how she'd counter every single thing he has and beat him up:

- V9 Chapter 02.

And when they fight, it plays out exactly how Aqua predicted to a point Kazuma says she could be the Goddess of Bar Fights:

Not to say Aqua has the upper hand against the likes of Wiz and even Vanir who'd solo the Frieren cast with low difficulty.

 

[Flashlight237]

Luck is not important in battle, Konosuba-wise, unless you're using luck-based skills. And Aqua with buffs tied Kazuma in rock-paper-scissors as per Yorimichi 3.

Frieren is not a glass cannon, she took some big hits from Solitär and survived just fine.

Aqua is a tank though, Frieren can't hurt her, no attack in Konosuba can injury her while she wears her Divine Relic according to the author himself, and nothing in Frieren compares to the firepower that exists in Konosuba.

Frieren characters are below supersonic in speed to the point they are hopeless trying to catch a supersonic bird without tricking it. But to not make this super boring and assume a speed equalized fight, Frieren doesn't really have a winning condition, unless she could somehow figure out Aqua's Hagoromo grants her her immunity to damage, and somehow gets it off Aqua... even then, Aqua's base defensive stats + buffas and healing is probably too much for Frieren to overcome.

Frieren can fly, but Sacred Break Spell nullifies flight magic (shown on V11), so Aqua could either get close and beat Frieren up physically, or drawn her with Sacred Create Water.

Still, Frieren might be hard to put down physically due to her high mana and shields which are pretty strong, but hey, again, I forgot, Sacred Break Spell lol, it'd break through Frieren's shield like glass, since it can even break through the barrier around the Demon King's castle, something able to eat dozens of nuke level Explosion spells.

Wow. Good argument.

@Fallen_Angelicx @AThe1412 Any objections?

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Which is a false statement, Konosuba profiles have more wrong information than otherwise.

Aqua's quick and smart thinking in battle, using her knowleadge and powers to nullify the enemy's flight ability ( which she'd do against Frieren ):

- V11 Chapter 05.

I'd like to point out, this is literally one line away from the Manicore crashing into Kazuma because while it lost it's ability to fly, it still charged into him due to gravity (Kazuma wasn't hurt much from it due to having buffed defenses, but still not that smart of a move)

Aqua makes a deep analysis of how a fight between her and Kazuma would play out, stating how she'd counter every single thing he has and beat him up:

- V9 Chapter 02.

That is literally just Aqua and Kazuma one uping each other, it's not much of a deep analysis when it's just saying "Your basic spell wouldn't work and I can buff myself". Hell Kazuma literally points out how she had a spell that can remove binds and she just didn't cast it before. One of the next parts to this has the group going to fight Goblins, Aqua trips on icey terrain and falls on her face, and the goblins got away (Granted, it was Megumin's fault for that, but this doesn't yell smart)

And when they fight, it plays out exactly how Aqua predicted to a point Kazuma says she could be the Goddess of Bar Fights:

Not to say Aqua has the upper hand against the likes of Wiz and even Vanir who'd solo the Frieren cast with low difficulty.

Which, again, is just Aqua stat stomping to win a fight. That's not much in the way of an intelligence win and with that level of strategy she just gets blasted. She's not idiotic to the point of being completely below average, but she's certainly not smart enough to outmaneuver Frieren especially when she has the stat advantage.

 

[FrenzyUND]

I'd like to point out, this is literally one line away from the Manicore crashing into Kazuma because while it lost it's ability to fly, it still charged into him due to gravity (Kazuma wasn't hurt much from it due to having buffed defenses, but still not that smart of a move)

The point was:

Aqua's own page refers to how she lacks basic analytic skills and self awareness to use any knowledge she has effectively.

Which is debunked by Aqua using her knowleadge about Manticores and her skills to deal with them. And as you said yourself, Kazuma was barely hurt ( due to Aqua's buffs ), so it was definitely a smart move, although besides the point. If Frieren falls on Aqua after getting her flight negated, it won't hurt her either.

That is literally just Aqua and Kazuma one uping each other, it's not much of a deep analysis when it's just saying "Your basic spell wouldn't work and I can buff myself". Hell Kazuma literally points out how she had a spell that can remove binds and she just didn't cast it before.

Again, the argument was that Aqua was so dumb she couldn't use her knowleadge or skills effectively, which is proved wrong when she uses her knowleadge about Kazuma's arsenal and her skills to counter him in everything. When they fought, it happened exactly like her predicted, not like "smart" Kazuma predicted.

Also, it was Darkness complaining why Aqua didn't use that on her, she had used it on Bind before ( V6 ), she just didn't care to free Darkness at that moment.

Aqua is a canonically good fighter, that's the point.

Which, again, is just Aqua stat stomping to win a fight. That's not much in the way of an intelligence win and with that level of strategy she just gets blasted. She's not idiotic to the point of being completely below average, but she's certainly not smart enough to outmaneuver Frieren especially when she has the stat advantage.

Not really, she has to resist Drain Touch, nullify Bind with Break Spell, then buff herself and stomp.

And wdym Frieren has the stat advantage? Aqua outstats her in everything.

Speed? Kazuma level characters have bullet timing feats, while Frieren couldn't dream of catching a supersonic bird in a conventional way;

Durability? Nothing on Frieren's arsenal can injury Aqua, according to Natsume himself on the fanbook, the Divine Relic will defend her from any attacks, and nothing in Frieren comes close to the destructive power that exists in Konosuba:

Strength? Even without buffs she can pin Vanir with Wiz's help, Vanir can wrestle dragons the size of a warehouse and that can swallow a cow with one hand. Wiz, Wolfsgang ( Wiz level Vampire ), Kazuma, Darkness and Megumin together couldn't break Aqua's grip when she buffed herself on Yorimichi 1. With buffs she's possibly the physically strongest character, and I won't even bring up the fact Akatsukiverse has feats of strength at mountain-range of several miles level.

Mana? Aqua's literally infinite.

Magic power?

- Bakuen Spinoff V2 Chapter 4.

DC? Nothing on Frieren's arsenal compares to Sacred Create Water which, even when cast without buffs and for only a few seconds, it flooded an entire city, destroying its walls and buildings around it.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Ok, ignoring most of that and focusing on the factual stuff

Speed? Kazuma level characters have bullet timing feats, while Frieren couldn't dream of catching a supersonic bird in a conventional way;

Speed? Kazuma and Aqua have subsonic speed against Frieren's Supersonic/Hypersonic+ speeds, Aqua couldn't dream of catching her in a conventional way

Durability? Nothing on Frieren's arsenal can injury Aqua, according to Natsume himself on the fanbook, the Divine Relic will defend her from any attacks, and nothing in Frieren comes close to the destructive power that exists in Konosuba:

Durability? Nothing in Aqua's arsenal can bypass Frieren's shields, her defenses and attack potency have a kiloton of power behind them, nothing in Aqua's arsenal comes close to that destructive power except her strongest spell which is still below it by a fair margin

Strength? Even without buffs she can pin Vanir with Wiz's help, Vanir can wrestle dragons the size of a warehouse and that can swallow a cow with one hand. Wiz, Wolfsgang ( Wiz level Vampire ), Kazuma, Darkness and Megumin together couldn't break Aqua's grip when she buffed herself on Yorimichi 1. With buffs she's possibly the physically strongest character, and I won't even bring up the fact Akatsukiverse has feats of strength at mountain-range of several miles level.

Strength? Peak human lifting strength vs Class 50, sure Aqua can punch harder but that doesn't mean much when she gets literally one spotted.

Mana? Aqua's literally infinite.

I mean yeah sure, she has stamina. But that doesn't matter much when the fight ends in one move

DC? Nothing on Frieren's arsenal compares to Sacred Create Water which, even when cast without buffs and for only a few seconds, it flooded an entire city, destroying its walls and buildings around it.

DC? Aqua's strongest move is outclassed by Frieren's, has a longer startup time than it, and can get nullified from Friren's power null alongside her buffs.

These are everything the profiles themselves have, if you have a problem revise the verse

 

[AThe1412]

The point was:



Which is debunked by Aqua using her knowleadge about Manticores and her skills to deal with them. And as you said yourself, Kazuma was barely hurt ( due to Aqua's buffs ), so it was definitely a smart move, although besides the point. If Frieren falls on Aqua after getting her flight negated, it won't hurt her either.


Again, the argument was that Aqua was so dumb she couldn't use her knowleadge or skills effectively, which is proved wrong when she uses her knowleadge about Kazuma's arsenal and her skills to counter him in everything. When they fought, it happened exactly like her predicted, not like "smart" Kazuma predicted.

Also, it was Darkness complaining why Aqua didn't use that on her, she had used it on Bind before ( V6 ), she just didn't care to free Darkness at that moment.

Aqua is a canonically good fighter, that's the point.



Not really, she has to resist Drain Touch, nullify Bind with Break Spell, then buff herself and stomp.

And wdym Frieren has the stat advantage? Aqua outstats her in everything.

Speed? Kazuma level characters have bullet timing feats, while Frieren couldn't dream of catching a supersonic bird in a conventional way;

Durability? Nothing on Frieren's arsenal can injury Aqua, according to Natsume himself on the fanbook, the Divine Relic will defend her from any attacks, and nothing in Frieren comes close to the destructive power that exists in Konosuba:

Strength? Even without buffs she can pin Vanir with Wiz's help, Vanir can wrestle dragons the size of a warehouse and that can swallow a cow with one hand. Wiz, Wolfsgang ( Wiz level Vampire ), Kazuma, Darkness and Megumin together couldn't break Aqua's grip when she buffed herself on Yorimichi 1. With buffs she's possibly the physically strongest character, and I won't even bring up the fact Akatsukiverse has feats of strength at mountain-range of several miles level.

Mana? Aqua's literally infinite.

Magic power?

- Bakuen Spinoff V2 Chapter 4.

DC? Nothing on Frieren's arsenal compares to Sacred Create Water which, even when cast without buffs and for only a few seconds, it flooded an entire city, destroying its walls and buildings around it.

Okay cool. Now where's all of that on Aqua's profile?

 

[Flashlight237]

Gatekeeping much? Any amount of scans is better than relying on Wiki profiles.

 

[AThe1412]

Gatekeeping much? Any amount of scans is better than relying on Wiki profiles.

You mean scans that support outlandish and more importantly  unaccepted claims?

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Tbf, when it comes to magic in the world of konosuba, choosing to resist a magic and having high defense allows you to resist the magic spells tied behind it(like even time magic). And aqua probably resists most of the spells in Frierens arsenal. But AP(of the magic) and speed on this site are the issue.

Granted, even explosion rn is scaled to low 7-C from a vol 7-8 feat, and got a lot stronger up to the last volume considerably. I think aqua would be relative, given explosion can't 1 shot the devil king but she should be relative to him as a Goddess. But it's not up to me.

Also the speed issue, she gets blitzed here in combat. So she may not even have the time to resist the magic(though her base resistances and high defense stat help to resist magic). If they were equal speed, she could probably nullify all the spells, resist them and give more of a fight. It'd be closer than one would expect. Funnily enough, Aqua WOULD do better in hand to hand vs her. But frieren would still fight at a range probably, and still has the potential to hurt her more. But stamina can also come into play here for aqua. Frieren also has defensive magic that would need to be dealt with. You could argue aqua can nullify it or even the flight, I feel like there's more paths to go.

But with that said, it's not speed equal anyway so she probably gets overwhelmed given how Frieren also fights and the speed diff. Ap diff added on top is a gg, I think Frieren takes it. Also Aqua is pretty dumb as well. Granted she's been shown able to fight when against actual people, and not in a terrible luck situation that counters her. But eh..


The real ending is they bond over hatred for demons

 

[Zabazab]

I doubt Frieren would try to blast Aqua's head off, but Zoltraak would still be pretty effective right?

 

[FrenzyUND]

Okay cool. Now where's all of that on Aqua's profile?

Frozen in the bureaucratic system of the site.

All the info has been given already in threads, but there's nothing I can do if people and mods don't show up to update stuff.

 

[FrenzyUND]

Speed? Kazuma and Aqua have subsonic speed against Frieren's Supersonic/Hypersonic+ speeds, Aqua couldn't dream of catching her in a conventional way

Frieren has no supersonic, never mind hypersonic feats, the tournament arc wasn't clear enough, when Frieren had absolutely no way of catching a bird because "they are supersonic"?

Akatsukiverse has countless bullet timing and hypersonic feats, however. Supersonic Agent 22 Adventured with the Axel guild for months, never thought he was particularly fast, quite the opposite, and Natsume himself stated that Kazuma would beat supersonic Agent 6 in a few fights due to being smarter, which would be impossible if he couldn't match his speed and fact dude literally fights with guns:

Durability? Nothing in Aqua's arsenal can bypass Frieren's shields, her defenses and attack potency have a kiloton of power behind them, nothing in Aqua's arsenal comes close to that destructive power except her strongest spell which is still below it by a fair margin

Aqua's Break Spell can break through the Destroyer's shield and the barrier around the Demon King Castle that can withstand 50 back to back nuke level Explosion spells and you're saying this?

Aqua's strongest attack below it? What Frieren has ever done to even come close to compare to Sacred Create Water?

Most powerful spells in Frieren are around this level, like this one cast by Soliäir who was wiping the floor with bloodlusted Frieren and broke through her shield easily:

You've also not addressed how Frieren cannot injury Aqua due to her Divine Relic, and therefore has no winning condition.

Strength? Peak human lifting strength vs Class 50, sure Aqua can punch harder but that doesn't mean much when she gets literally one spotted.


Strength? Peak human lifting strength vs Class 50, sure Aqua can punch harder but that doesn't mean much when she gets literally one spotted.


I mean yeah sure, she has stamina. But that doesn't matter much when the fight ends in one move

Again, still waiting for you to explain how multi-building level Frieren will injury Aqua who can tank anything that exists in Konosuba according to the author himself, and when Konosuba has city busting to mountain busting to multi-country busting stuff.

DC? Aqua's strongest move is outclassed by Frieren's, has a longer startup time than it, and can get nullified from Friren's power null alongside her buffs.

These are everything the profiles themselves have, if you have a problem revise the verse

Frieren's strongest spells don't come close, by feats, to Aqua's Sacred Create Water, even without buffs and even without putting the effort... and this was base Aqua, not god form:

Also, Frieren has no power null against water, Aqua has though, after nullfying Frieren's flight and shields with Break Spell, she'll either one shot Frieren with God Blow or Sacred Create Water.

These are everything the profiles themselves have, if you have a problem revise the verse

Like I said, everything was shared in detail here in this very forum, it's now up to others and the mods to read through it and update the profiles.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Ignoring most of that for a second

Like I said, everything was shared in detail here in this very forum, it's now up to others and the mods to read through it and update the profiles.

What does that mean, the only means of doing so is with CRTs and if you referring to this conversation then no this means literally nothing and the profiles won't be effected. If you meant to link something then you didn't

 

[Zabazab]

Frieren has no supersonic, never mind hypersonic feats

Zoltraak is supersonic+

Aqua's strongest attack below it? What Frieren has ever done to even come close to compare to Sacred Create Water?

Most powerful spells in Frieren are around this level, like this one cast by Soliäir who was wiping the floor with bloodlusted Frieren and broke through her shield easily:

Daosdorg is a kiloton of TNT