Flickering the Lights in Glass' House (Castlevania Downgrades, 1/???)

[Theglassman12]

yes it is a power when he can kill monsters that constantly regenerate and revive in the middle of combat when Soma needs to casts magic seals on them to beat them, that’s textbook immortality negation. Soma even comments that it shouldn’t be possible but he does.

 

[Armorchompy]

yes it is a power when he can kill monsters that constantly regenerate and revive in the middle of combat when Soma needs to casts magic seals on them to beat them, that’s textbook immortality negation. Soma even comments that it shouldn’t be possible but he does.

A different kind of immortality negation, which is to say basically a completely different power. (And as far as I know they cannot "revive", they just get some health back)

... Or he's just damaging them faster than they can heal, which is what he's actually saying rather than something that could potentially be taken as maybe being possibly implied by the statement. Regeneration has a limit, if you vaporize someone with Low-Mid and they die that isn't regen negation, it's a limit of the regen. Soma thinks it isn't possible because he isn't strong enough to do it. Hell the statement is "I can't beat Dario because I don't have magic seals", which would make literally no sense if he could negate his immortality through some other means equal to the seals, the only feasible way to interpret this is "Julius doesn't have the ability to negate regeneration, he just doesn't need it against most enemies because he can overwhelm it through sheer AP."

 

[DragonZeroNova]

I'm not sure how relevant this is for the Julius argument, but I think it's important to note that just because Julius can do something doesn't mean anyone else can, especially since Julius has been stated multiple times to be the strongest vampire hunter (Which is even accepted on his profile). In other words, even if it isn't AP and is the same kind of hax, I don't think we can automatically give it to other people.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Armorchompy These creatures of chaos have godly levels of regeneration on their page, no amount of AP overwrites godly levels of regeneration. Plus Soma's comparable to Julius by this point and he still needs to use the magic seals to stop these monsters who are exposed to darkness/chaos which is making them immortal, why are you pushing this AP argument when at no point is this ever backed up in the source material?

@DragonZeroNova I'm bringing this up because Armor keeps claiming that permanently killing these monsters is somehow not a thing in the franchise in general despite the fact we have numerous examples of such case happening. Whether or not this is only a Julius thing doesn't change the fact that he still killed creatures that are immortal through chaos and darkness.

 

[DragonZeroNova]

I don't feel like voting on any of these, but I do think if Julius does have negation, it should only be Julius. As for whether or not he does have it, I could see Julius having it based on his own feats. At the very least, it is a bit more likely compared to just being an AP feat. I just disagree with it being scaled to every vampire hunter. (Note: This is only in regards to hunters being able to permamently kill monsters using Julius's feats to scale, nothing else.)

 

[Armorchompy]

@Armorchompy These creatures of chaos have godly levels of regeneration on their page, no amount of AP overwrites godly levels of regeneration. Plus Soma's comparable to Julius by this point and he still needs to use the magic seals to stop these monsters who are exposed to darkness/chaos which is making them immortal, why are you pushing this AP argument when at no point is this ever backed up in the source material?

He literally says he destroyed them before they could reconstitute. He doesn't say he destroyed them in such a way that would prevent them from reconstituting, he doesn't say he utilized magic to negate the reconstitution, he very clearly says the word BEFORE, meaning that if he hadn't destroyed them they would be CAPABLE of reconstituting from his attacks. This isn't something you can argue over, it is the objective, factual, unmistakable meaning of his words. So actually, I think it's pretty damn backed up by the source material.

I don't care if you have cobbled together a Frankenstein's monster of reasoning for the monsters having High-Godly that happens in seconds or whatever by crossing together ten different pieces of media's statements and I'm not even saying it's wrong, but it is not something that changes the fact that as far as Dawn is concerned, a monster's regeneration can be overwhelmed by destroying them fast and hard enough. Whether this means that they take a lot longer than that for the High-Godly to kick in or something else entirely I don't care, I will not allow you to twist such an obvious statement into meaning the opposite of what it does based on what you perceive to be more important evidence than what is actually being said.

You've completely failed to address my argument that if Julius could negate the regeneration, he wouldn't bring up his lack of sealing as a problem in fighting Darius, by the way.

@DragonZeroNova I'm bringing this up because Armor keeps claiming that permanently killing these monsters is somehow not a thing in the franchise in general despite the fact we have numerous examples of such case happening.

We also have maybe literally ten times as many examples of bosses killed by the Vampire Killer showing up again, so I'm not sure how you reconcile that with your opinion. Haven't addressed that either, btw.

 

[Nierre]

Resistance to Technology Manipulation

• Belmonts currently resist tech manip cause Dracula's castle can disrupt satellite images, and they’re unaffected. 𝔒𝔓 points out that the Belmonts aren't satellites and have never used them, so this resistance shouldn't apply.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 argues that the Belmonts use a bunch of tech-based items (A scouter, positron gun and neutron bombs) and how they function normally in the castle.
• The counterargument points out that the castle’s tech manip has only been shown to mess with satellite images and nothing indicates it'd affect all technology.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 pushes back with Dracula’s blood shutting down a massive mechanical monstrosity.

Enhanced Senses

• Phantoms can cloak themselves in darkness, becoming invisible. The Belmonts page claims that they can naturally see through this, but 𝔒𝔓 points out that Leon can’t actually see them (From his gameplay's perspective) and has to rely environmental cues like their glowing eyes, their visible reflection on the floor and the fact that they flicker in and out of their invisible state, to locate and fight them.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 argues that the Phantoms are explicitly stated to be invisible in the bestiary, yet Leon can still fight them without any special equipment.
• 𝔒𝔓 rebuts that Leon can just track the Phantoms with the previously mentioned cues.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 responds by arguing that Leon seeing the reflection is still a sign he has the necessary senses, since Phantoms "cannot be seen by the naked eye."

Resistance to Dream Manipulation

• 𝔒𝔓 points out that while Succubi have the ability to invade dreams, the Belmonts have never been shown fighting one while asleep.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 points out that Incubus can invade the minds of those who are awake and further argue that Leon seeing through a Succubus' spells suggests he has a resistance to said power. Moreover, dark/chaos magic is known to induce nightmares, but Trevor and Simon are unaffected by it.
  • Bambu suggests that dark/chaos' magic effects might be tied more to mundane psychological effects than an otherworldly power.
• Taking a “one justification at a time” approach, 𝔒𝔓 questions why Leon’s specific resistance should automatically scale to all Belmonts across generations.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 goes into more detail about the Succubus encounter and how the Belmonts' resistance to the dark influence of other creatures is built into their blood.

Healing [Mid-Low]
Basically, there's this one item that only appears in one of the games (Lament of Innocence) that gradually heals your HP. 𝔒𝔓 is arguing that it should just be an ability item that's listed on Leon's profile and not an all Belmont ability, but 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 is arguing that it's actually one of the items that's been passed down, so the other Belmonts would have access to it with their item crashes.

Soul Manipulation
Half this thread is about this one, but the gist of it is, Mana/Magic is the Soul, but only a select few are actually able to target and actually attack someone's mana (Most notably imps) but the current page lists everyone who has mana/magic as being able to harm the soul.
That's I think the conclusion we arrived to?

The arguments around it start from here, I believe.

Self-Sustenance [Type 2]
Monsters currently have Self-Sustenance cause Magnus tells us that they don't strictly need to drink blood (Human blood to be exact), but they do it for pleasure anyways. 𝔒𝔓's argument is that “we don’t need blood to survive” doesn’t exclude literally any other piece of food in existence. 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 is arguing that since these monsters are based on classic horror and mythological creatures known for their insatiable bloodlust, means that blood is their sole source of nourishment.
It's really late, so I'll finish this tomorow.

Resistance to Ice Manipulation & Absolute Zero

• 𝔒𝔓 argues that a Werewolf (In one of the scans used for AZ) being one-shot by said ice magic disproves the idea of a blanket resistance, and that a couple characters using AZ magic is not enough to claim all ice magic in the series operates at AZ levels.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 counters that the Werewolf is just fodder, with top-tiers like Death and Carmilla being able to withstand such attacks, and points to Richter mocking the AZ magic as evidence it’s common.
• 𝔒𝔓 rebuts that this only supports the idea that the AZ resistance should be specific to those who’ve directly tanked it and that Richter’s comment can just be dismissed as teasing a fellow Vampire Hunter.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 responds by noting that the fodder don't have profiles and that items like the "Absolute Zero Ring" confirm the connection between ice magic and AZ.

Immortality & Regeneration Negation

• 𝔒𝔓 point outs that Lucy's statement about not being able to destroy monsters is due to her lack of brute strength rather than immortality negation, and that creatures of chaos shouldn’t scale to exorcists who specialize in anti-chaos magic in the first place.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 counters by pointing out that creatures of chaos can kill each other (𝚂𝙲𝙰𝙽 𝙿𝙴𝙽𝙳𝙸𝙽𝙶) and disputes the idea that Lucy’s statement refers to brute strength.
• 𝔒𝔓 challenges the validity of the "monsters can kill each other" claim, arguing that the monsters respawning suggests they aren’t truly killed.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 responds by explaining that the monsters "respawning" is due to their sheer numbers rather than their immortality.

Life Manipulation
𝔒𝔓 argues that the scan is misinterpreted, with “lose their life” simply meaning “die” in this context.
This has no push-back, but 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 notes that the cast have other ways of resisting life manip.

Paralysis Inducement
𝔒𝔓 argues that the passage’s use of "petrified" is metaphorical, especially since the character easily moves immediately afterwards.
𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 maintains that it's literal paralysis caused by Death’s magic, as the passage mentions the air being filled with his magic.

Incorporeality
𝔒𝔓 argues it's intangibility, but concedes that Death is incorporeal for being an apparition.

Resistance to Immortality Negation
𝔒𝔓 argues that Death does die, repeatedly even, but returns due to external factors like Dracula's resurrection and such, while 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 asserts that Death can’t be permanently killed, as he comes back even when you kill him with the Vampire Killer (The holy magic in the franchise, and I relegated to mention this, but holy magic is the only thing that can negate a Red Skeleton's immortality).

Non-Physical Interaction

• Elemental
  • 𝔒𝔓 argues that elemental intangibility doesn’t apply to slimes, as "gel" is not non-physical and can be interacted with like any other material.
  • 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 pushes back, claiming that slimes are portrayed as intangible in fiction.
  • 𝔒𝔓 responds that slimes being intangible in other fictional works is irrelevant unless it can be proven that slimes in Castlevania are intangible. 𝔒𝔓 further asserts that most RPGs portray slimes as physical entities that can be damaged with ordinary weapons.
  • 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 argues that RPGs where you hit slimes aren’t relevant, as those same games also let you hit ghosts.
• Phasing
  • 𝔒𝔓 argues that the phasing ability in question only works on specific walls, so interacting with these characters shouldn't grant NPI.
  • 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 points out that Shanoa (I think?) killed someone even while he was phasing through a wall with her glyph magic.
  • 𝔒𝔓 counters that Shanoa only did so by absorbing his powers rather than directly interacting with him (Basically arguing that Power Absorption of this type doesn’t require NPI to affect intangible beings).
  • 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 asserts that Shanoa still did interact with the guy's essence, even the part that's inside the wall.
• Nonexistent
  • 𝔒𝔓 argues that the Navigators are never fought, nor are they interacted with in a way that constitutes NPI.
  • 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 counters that Dracula's and Alucard's magic can interact with Navigators, whose nonexistence is the result of the castle's influence, and that common ghosts, also affected by the same influence, can be harmed directly.
  • 𝔒𝔓 asserts that Alucard reviving the Navigators by reversing time isn’t NPI and disputes the idea that common ghosts share the same qualities as Navigators, as the Navigators are the only ones whose powers were forgotten when they died.
  • 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 maintains that Alucard's magic had to directly interact with the Navigators to restore them and that their nonexistent state is due to them succumbing to the magic of Dracula's castle, which applies to all ghosts.

I'll give my response sooooon thanks for the summaries

 

[Theglassman12]

@Armorchompy

I will not allow you to twist such an obvious statement into meaning the opposite of what it does based on what you perceive to be more important evidence than what is actually being said.

Literally what part of this is me twisting the statement when the process of the regeneration happens really fast in the fight itself and Soma still needs the seals to kill them? Also killing the monsters hard enough does not address the fact that they still have godly levels of regeneration. No amount of power or AP is remotely bypassing the fact that level of regeneration without you giving them some insane ability like existence erasure, or destroying every aspect of their being in so many ways, plus the fact you don't say its wrong means only one of two things, either Julius is destroying so much part of their being he'd just gain extra forms of erasure like mind, soul, concept, etc. as a passive thing (something not remotely backed up by the text btw) or he can literally kill these monsters despite being exposed to chaos/darkness. Plus you haven't remotely refuted the fact that Joachim and Olrox would die from the belmonts here so you ignoring them is just a sign of concession in my eyes. If you can't refute that at all then I don't see the point in continuing this conversation.

The reason Darius was a problem was because he's tied to a god of fire Aguni, something that's above normal creatures of chaos with someone like Death being an example. Even with that statement it doesn't refute the fact that Soma right after Julius' comment questions how the hell was he able to kill creatures of chaos, which he just said he did it without a seal, which Soma questioned if that's even possible given his experience with fighting these monsters. If you're not going to refute the fact that they have godly levels of regeneration then your entire point of "overwhelming their regeneration" falls flat because you can't overwhelm godly regen without some ability that's designed to kill these monsters in the first place.

 

[Nierre]

Sorry I haven't forgotten this thread, I've just been busy with IRL stuff, I'll try to get to this tomorrow.

 

[Nierre]

Resistance to Technology Manipulation

• Belmonts currently resist tech manip cause Dracula's castle can disrupt satellite images, and they’re unaffected. 𝔒𝔓 points out that the Belmonts aren't satellites and have never used them, so this resistance shouldn't apply.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 argues that the Belmonts use a bunch of tech-based items (A scouter, positron gun and neutron bombs) and how they function normally in the castle.
• The counterargument points out that the castle’s tech manip has only been shown to mess with satellite images and nothing indicates it'd affect all technology.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 pushes back with Dracula’s blood shutting down a massive mechanical monstrosity.

Agree with the OP.

Enhanced Senses

• Phantoms can cloak themselves in darkness, becoming invisible. The Belmonts page claims that they can naturally see through this, but 𝔒𝔓 points out that Leon can’t actually see them (From his gameplay's perspective) and has to rely environmental cues like their glowing eyes, their visible reflection on the floor and the fact that they flicker in and out of their invisible state, to locate and fight them.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 argues that the Phantoms are explicitly stated to be invisible in the bestiary, yet Leon can still fight them without any special equipment.
• 𝔒𝔓 rebuts that Leon can just track the Phantoms with the previously mentioned cues.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 responds by arguing that Leon seeing the reflection is still a sign he has the necessary senses, since Phantoms "cannot be seen by the naked eye."

This one is a bit tricky but I see myself agreeing with the Opposition. I understand why the OP believes this to be the case, but if the bestiary explicitly states that they're invisible to the naked eye.. then regardless of these "cues" such as the glowing eyes or the reflections, they should be impossible to see with normal vision.

Resistance to Dream Manipulation

• 𝔒𝔓 points out that while Succubi have the ability to invade dreams, the Belmonts have never been shown fighting one while asleep.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 points out that Incubus can invade the minds of those who are awake and further argue that Leon seeing through a Succubus' spells suggests he has a resistance to said power. Moreover, dark/chaos magic is known to induce nightmares, but Trevor and Simon are unaffected by it.
  • Bambu suggests that dark/chaos' magic effects might be tied more to mundane psychological effects than an otherworldly power.
• Taking a “one justification at a time” approach, 𝔒𝔓 questions why Leon’s specific resistance should automatically scale to all Belmonts across generations.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 goes into more detail about the Succubus encounter and how the Belmonts' resistance to the dark influence of other creatures is built into their blood.

Agree with the Opposition.

Healing [Mid-Low]
Basically, there's this one item that only appears in one of the games (Lament of Innocence) that gradually heals your HP. 𝔒𝔓 is arguing that it should just be an ability item that's listed on Leon's profile and not an all Belmont ability, but 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 is arguing that it's actually one of the items that's been passed down, so the other Belmonts would have access to it with their item crashes.

Not convinced by the Opposition so I agree with OP.

Self-Sustenance [Type 2]
Monsters currently have Self-Sustenance cause Magnus tells us that they don't strictly need to drink blood (Human blood to be exact), but they do it for pleasure anyways. 𝔒𝔓's argument is that “we don’t need blood to survive” doesn’t exclude literally any other piece of food in existence. 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 is arguing that since these monsters are based on classic horror and mythological creatures known for their insatiable bloodlust, means that blood is their sole source of nourishment.

Not convinced by Opposition so I agree with OP.

Resistance to Ice Manipulation & Absolute Zero

• 𝔒𝔓 argues that a Werewolf (In one of the scans used for AZ) being one-shot by said ice magic disproves the idea of a blanket resistance, and that a couple characters using AZ magic is not enough to claim all ice magic in the series operates at AZ levels.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 counters that the Werewolf is just fodder, with top-tiers like Death and Carmilla being able to withstand such attacks, and points to Richter mocking the AZ magic as evidence it’s common.
• 𝔒𝔓 rebuts that this only supports the idea that the AZ resistance should be specific to those who’ve directly tanked it and that Richter’s comment can just be dismissed as teasing a fellow Vampire Hunter.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 responds by noting that the fodder don't have profiles and that items like the "Absolute Zero Ring" confirm the connection between ice magic and AZ.

Definitely agree with the OP here. Just give the resistance to those who've resisted it.

Life Manipulation
𝔒𝔓 argues that the scan is misinterpreted, with “lose their life” simply meaning “die” in this context.
This has no push-back, but 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 notes that the cast have other ways of resisting life manip.

Agree with OP.

Paralysis Inducement
𝔒𝔓 argues that the passage’s use of "petrified" is metaphorical, especially since the character easily moves immediately afterwards.
𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 maintains that it's literal paralysis caused by Death’s magic, as the passage mentions the air being filled with his magic.

Agree with Opposition.

Incorporeality
𝔒𝔓 argues it's intangibility, but concedes that Death is incorporeal for being an apparition.

Agree with Opposition then

Resistance to Immortality Negation
𝔒𝔓 argues that Death does die, repeatedly even, but returns due to external factors like Dracula's resurrection and such, while 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 asserts that Death can’t be permanently killed, as he comes back even when you kill him with the Vampire Killer (The holy magic in the franchise, and I relegated to mention this, but holy magic is the only thing that can negate a Red Skeleton's immortality).

Agree with Opposition.

Elemental

• 𝔒𝔓 argues that elemental intangibility doesn’t apply to slimes, as "gel" is not non-physical and can be interacted with like any other material.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 pushes back, claiming that slimes are portrayed as intangible in fiction.
• 𝔒𝔓 responds that slimes being intangible in other fictional works is irrelevant unless it can be proven that slimes in Castlevania are intangible. 𝔒𝔓 further asserts that most RPGs portray slimes as physical entities that can be damaged with ordinary weapons.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 argues that RPGs where you hit slimes aren’t relevant, as those same games also let you hit ghosts.

Agree with OP, lol.

Phasing

• 𝔒𝔓 argues that the phasing ability in question only works on specific walls, so interacting with these characters shouldn't grant NPI.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 points out that Shanoa (I think?) killed someone even while he was phasing through a wall with her glyph magic.
• 𝔒𝔓 counters that Shanoa only did so by absorbing his powers rather than directly interacting with him (Basically arguing that Power Absorption of this type doesn’t require NPI to affect intangible beings).
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 asserts that Shanoa still did interact with the guy's essence, even the part that's inside the wall.

Still think this is NPI tbh, so I agree with the Opposition.

Nonexistent

• 𝔒𝔓 argues that the Navigators are never fought, nor are they interacted with in a way that constitutes NPI.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 counters that Dracula's and Alucard's magic can interact with Navigators, whose nonexistence is the result of the castle's influence, and that common ghosts, also affected by the same influence, can be harmed directly.
• 𝔒𝔓 asserts that Alucard reviving the Navigators by reversing time isn’t NPI and disputes the idea that common ghosts share the same qualities as Navigators, as the Navigators are the only ones whose powers were forgotten when they died.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 maintains that Alucard's magic had to directly interact with the Navigators to restore them and that their nonexistent state is due to them succumbing to the magic of Dracula's castle, which applies to all ghosts.

Soul Manipulation
Half this thread is about this one, but the gist of it is, Mana/Magic is the Soul, but only a select few are actually able to target and actually attack someone's mana (Most notably imps) but the current page lists everyone who has mana/magic as being able to harm the soul.
That's I think the conclusion we arrived to?

The arguments around it start from here, I believe.

Immortality & Regeneration Negation

• 𝔒𝔓 point outs that Lucy's statement about not being able to destroy monsters is due to her lack of brute strength rather than immortality negation, and that creatures of chaos shouldn’t scale to exorcists who specialize in anti-chaos magic in the first place.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 counters by pointing out that creatures of chaos can kill each other (𝚂𝙲𝙰𝙽 𝙿𝙴𝙽𝙳𝙸𝙽𝙶) and disputes the idea that Lucy’s statement refers to brute strength.
• 𝔒𝔓 challenges the validity of the "monsters can kill each other" claim, arguing that the monsters respawning suggests they aren’t truly killed.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 responds by explaining that the monsters "respawning" is due to their sheer numbers rather than their immortality.

Neutral on these 3.

 

[Theglassman12]

So far from what I've last counted, the immortality negation and soul manipulation are the main abilities that are in a standstill with staff input. Everything else seems to have enough of a consensus to be deemed removed or accepted. I'll see if anyone else can comment on those two so we can finish this thread.

 

[Topaz404]

Agreed, i personally want to be done with this, but ive counted Nierre's vote. Hopefully this comes to its resolution sooner rather then later-

 

[Topaz404]

Oh, one thing, Glass
Since the soul/immortality stuff is so contended at the moment, would you be alright leaving the votes as is, and tackling the rest in a different CRT? Should save this from going on longer then it needs to be

 

[Theglassman12]

By tackling the rest in a different CRT do you mean the other abilities in the OP? I'm pretty sure we got enough staff votes to get a consensus on what stays or goes for everything else, it's mostly the immortality negation and soul hax stuff that's left, though I do plan on adding some extra scans for both later down the line when this and some other CRTs are finished.

 

[Topaz404]

Well yeah, I was only talking about the soul/immortality stuff. The rest of it is pretty much been taken care of

So pass everything else, save the soul/immortality stuff for a later thread. Simple

 

[Theglassman12]

I can do that sure, though I assume this means you want me to close this thread once everything else is applied to the pages?

 

[Topaz404]

I dont believe there's much else to argue about, so unless something major happens, i believe it should be fine to apply everything and close this thread

 

[Theglassman12]

Ok, I'll remove the abilities that I believe are mostly accepted to be removed (mostly going off of Eden's vote post and what Nierre voted)

 

[Agnaa]

Oh damn it's unfortunate that this is getting applied now.

I'm planning to evaluate this, but I put it off until Ant came back from vacation, so I could keep edit patrolling.

 

[Topaz404]

Oh damn it's unfortunate that this is getting applied now.

I'm planning to evaluate this, but I put it off until Ant came back from vacation, so I could keep edit patrolling.

Ah, apologies. Simply didnt want this thread to stagnate any further

 

[Theglassman12]

@Agnaa Soooo do you still want to comment here or no? I've applied the changes in terms of what was agreed to be removed and only like 2 abilities are at a standstill (and either I or Phs might make another CRT to add more scans for those two abilities). If not then if Topaz is ok with it, I could wrap this thread up.

 

[Topaz404]

I am perfectly fine with letting this thread wrap up, unless Agnaa wishes to make a comment on the CRT

 

[Agnaa]

There's not much point in me evaluating things where my vote won't really sway things. But if my vote could move things, even just to a possibly/likely, I'd like to discuss them.

Ant's coming back in 2 days, so I should be able to start looking at anything remaining then.

If there's enough stuff where my input matters, then I'll comment here. If not, I'll just wait for the new thread ig.

 

[Topaz404]

There's not much point in me evaluating things where my vote won't really sway things. But if my vote could move things, even just to a possibly/likely, I'd like to discuss them.

Ant's coming back in 2 days, so I should be able to start looking at anything remaining then.

If there's enough stuff where my input matters, then I'll comment here. If not, I'll just wait for the new thread ig.

Looking at the numbers, im afraid i dont believe you'd be able to sway much- it is what it is

 

[Theglassman12]

Like I said earlier, the immortality negation and the soul hax stuff are the only main things left that are kinda in a limbo in terms of decisive staff input, everything else is set in stone by now, and I'll probably make another thread in terms of adding more evidence for the two. But yeah if no one objects and since Topaz is fine, I'll close this thread in a bit.