Flickering the Lights in Glass' House (Castlevania Downgrades, 1/???)

[Armorchompy]

Resistance to Ice Manipulation & Absolute Zero

• 𝔒𝔓 argues that a Werewolf (In one of the scans used for AZ) being one-shot by said ice magic disproves the idea of a blanket resistance, and that a couple characters using AZ magic is not enough to claim all ice magic in the series operates at AZ levels.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 counters that the Werewolf is just fodder, with top-tiers like Death and Carmilla being able to withstand such attacks, and points to Richter mocking the AZ magic as evidence it’s common.
• 𝔒𝔓 rebuts that this only supports the idea that the AZ resistance should be specific to those who’ve directly tanked it and that Richter’s comment can just be dismissed as teasing a fellow Vampire Hunter.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 responds by noting that the fodder don't have profiles and that items like the "Absolute Zero Ring" confirm the connection between ice magic and AZ.

Hm, Richter doesn't necessarily seem impressed with their methods but I wouldn't take it as "their means of attack specifically are weak". On the other hand, if these guys aren't particularly strong it'd make sense if superior ice users could match it, I'd generally assume temperature = power in cases like that. So I wouldn't mind keeping this one.

Immortality & Regeneration Negation

• 𝔒𝔓 point outs that Lucy's statement about not being able to destroy monsters is due to her lack of brute strength rather than immortality negation, and that creatures of chaos shouldn’t scale to exorcists who specialize in anti-chaos magic in the first place.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 counters by pointing out that creatures of chaos can kill each other (𝚂𝙲𝙰𝙽 𝙿𝙴𝙽𝙳𝙸𝙽𝙶) and disputes the idea that Lucy’s statement refers to brute strength.
• 𝔒𝔓 challenges the validity of the "monsters can kill each other" claim, arguing that the monsters respawning suggests they aren’t truly killed.
• 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 responds by explaining that the monsters "respawning" is due to their sheer numbers rather than their immortality.

Monsters respawning is definitely just numbers but I don't think the evidence is very strong to begin with, the "destroying dark ones" stuff is hardly specifically regarding their resurrection and the Red Skeleton is one single enemy with a unique ability to rebuild itself, which almost every game's bestiary points out. Not really something I'd use to argue about every other monster.

On the other hand, if CoCs are capable of resurrections, and they can also negate that, then I don't see the point of the arguing. Just get decent proof of that and you don't need all this very indirect arguing.

Life Manipulation
𝔒𝔓 argues that the scan is misinterpreted, with “lose their life” simply meaning “die” in this context.
This has no push-back, but 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 notes that the cast have other ways of resisting life manip.

Scans would be nice, if they aren't already on profiles, in which case no issue.

Paralysis Inducement
𝔒𝔓 argues that the passage’s use of "petrified" is metaphorical, especially since the character easily moves immediately afterwards.
𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 maintains that it's literal paralysis caused by Death’s magic, as the passage mentions the air being filled with his magic.

Yeah I wouldn't take this literally.

Resistance to Immortality Negation
𝔒𝔓 argues that Death does die, repeatedly even, but returns due to external factors like Dracula's resurrection and such, while 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 asserts that Death can’t be permanently killed, as he comes back even when you kill him with the Vampire Killer (The holy magic in the franchise, and I relegated to mention this, but holy magic is the only thing that can negate a Red Skeleton's immortality).

If the Vampire Killer negs resurrection (I wouldn't know either way, but that doesn't seem to be in contention) and Death is killed by it and comes back (which happens in like, 20 different games), then that's Resistance to Immortality Negation, no? Don't see a reason to argue about conceptuality and stuff.

Non-Physical Interaction

• Elemental
  • 𝔒𝔓 argues that elemental intangibility doesn’t apply to slimes, as "gel" is not non-physical and can be interacted with like any other material.
  • 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 pushes back, claiming that slimes are portrayed as intangible in fiction.
  • 𝔒𝔓 responds that slimes being intangible in other fictional works is irrelevant unless it can be proven that slimes in Castlevania are intangible. 𝔒𝔓 further asserts that most RPGs portray slimes as physical entities that can be damaged with ordinary weapons.
  • 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 argues that RPGs where you hit slimes aren’t relevant, as those same games also let you hit ghosts.

Slimes are not universally portrayed as intangible (not even commonly, in my experience) and even if they were you'd still need to prove they are here. You'd need to even with literal ghosts as far as I'm concerned, plenty of fiction where those are tangible.

Aren't there living flame enemies in a few Castlevanias? That'd be a better avenue.

• Phasing
  • 𝔒𝔓 argues that the phasing ability in question only works on specific walls, so interacting with these characters shouldn't grant NPI.
  • 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 points out that Shanoa (I think?) killed someone even while he was phasing through a wall with her glyph magic.
  • 𝔒𝔓 counters that Shanoa only did so by absorbing his powers rather than directly interacting with him (Basically arguing that Power Absorption of this type doesn’t require NPI to affect intangible beings).
  • 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 asserts that Shanoa still did interact with the guy's essence, even the part that's inside the wall.

This is NPI, but not by interacting with the phasing, just because it's absorbing people's essence (what is that, souls? concept? i don't remember if they say in Ecclesia). I wouldn't assume the guy's soul becomes "more intangible" when that spell is used, it's already going to phase through walls by default and Shanoa can interact with it anyways.

• Nonexistent
  • 𝔒𝔓 argues that the Navigators are never fought, nor are they interacted with in a way that constitutes NPI.
  • 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 counters that Dracula's and Alucard's magic can interact with Navigators, whose nonexistence is the result of the castle's influence, and that common ghosts, also affected by the same influence, can be harmed directly.
  • 𝔒𝔓 asserts that Alucard reviving the Navigators by reversing time isn’t NPI and disputes the idea that common ghosts share the same qualities as Navigators, as the Navigators are the only ones whose powers were forgotten when they died.
  • 𝔒𝔭𝔭𝔬𝔰𝔦𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 maintains that Alucard's magic had to directly interact with the Navigators to restore them and that their nonexistent state is due to them succumbing to the magic of Dracula's castle, which applies to all ghosts.

Not convinced by "succumbing to Dracula's magic and turning into a spirit" = "all spirits in the castle are the same", Castlevania's bestiaries are full of variations of basically every critter and even just peeking at the Ghost category on the wiki brings up over 30 pages (probably this isn't fully accurate, but you get my point), who I have no doubt don't share all of their abilities. As for the rest... I dunno, it's really just a question of "does rewinding time around a non-existing creature need to affect it to rewind it too?" No clue if it does, that's just site standards.