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Flash (Barry Allen) (Pre-Crisis) Revision:

We have no raw power feats above tier 6, and again, western superhero comicbooks are insanely inconsistent in terms of matchup powerscaling. Sorry, but can you please drop this issue. I do not have the energy to spend on it any more.

Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics
 
Once again, sorry for bothering you, but the last thing I suggest is creating an extra key for Spectral Flash. Yes, it only appeared in one issue, but it had a clear explanation ( Flash was possesed) and it was pretty clear that this form was above flash's normal capabilities ( Spectre said that it made flash equal to him). Thank you for your time.
 
Thank you.

I still do not think that a character that only appeared very briefly around 50 years ago and fought a Spectre with very different power levels from currently is good for giving statistics to.
 
Probably, yes, but we need the calculation evaluated.
 
Ok. I guess al we need is to collect abilities. I guess this barry will be much weaker and less durable than his post crisis counterpart, but will be much faster and have better hax.
 
Also, pre-crisis barry should be extraordinary genius in terms of intelligence. While crippled, he created a robot that can move at super-speed.
 
That seems like Extraordinary Genius, yes.
 
Yellow RF bypasses GL constructs.

RF punches superwoman once in that scene withiut seeing the outcome on the link provided.

How strong is precrisis Red Tornado?

Again, that was RF disguised as Flash in an outfit that allows the yellow suit influence through.
 
Antvasima said:
Thank you.

I still do not think that a character that only appeared very briefly around 50 years ago and fought a Spectre with very different power levels from currently is good for giving statistics to.
Click to expand...
Responding to this. Doesn't matter if we consider varying power levels. Do we consider Goku Black to have varying power levels because there's no feats above 8-B his entire arc (until the arc goes to shit of course)? If it's the Spectre it doesn't matter if it's in a time where he didn't have showings. It's still Spectre who is very much multi+.
 
I'm serious, deliberately ignoring the context of Ki Control being a thing is not an Admin thing to do. Especially turning the thread into another Comicbooks Vs Anime wars.

DC Comics hundreds of writers where one day, multiverse gods are peak planetary at best on many occasions. Dragon Ball is just one linear story with a linear PL system and Marvel and DC are not. Marvel/DC will even have loopholes of Low 1-A hand gun logic. Do not turn into another Lord Xcano Jr.
 
I'll respond to your arguments in the next paragraph but I have to address something.

"Lord Xcano Jr."

I swear if you call another person Lord Xcano Jr. idk what I'll do. Is that your go to insult when someone vehemently disagrees with you? I'm the fourth person you've done that to, and that's from what I've seen alone. Don't be sanctimonious and don't disrespect me like that. Or at the very least get a new go-to threat.

And with that out of the way...

Take the mode or mean of Superman feats and I promise you that you'll get something like city block. Not even planetary. Good thing that's not how versus debating works. And who cares if something is heralded by a single person? You think comics are the only series with plotholes? And don't give me that argument when shit like the Looney Tunes characters are in the star level range for things that happen rarely when they've been around for just as long. Not to mention the fact that having more feats isn't a problem. I can promise you that Persona, Final Fantasy, and Mario have more feats in the wall level range than in the cosmic level range, but nobody will question that. And yes, teams of people work on video games, so that argument doesn't work either.

Finally ki Control argument falls flat when the villain in question wants everything destroyed.
 
The real cal howard said:
I'll respond to your arguments in the next paragraph but I have to address something.

"Lord Xcano Jr."

I swear if you call another person Lord Xcano Jr. idk what I'll do. Is that your go to insult when someone vehemently disagrees with you? I'm the fourth person you've done that to, and that's from what I've seen alone. Don't be sanctimonious and don't disrespect me like that. Or at the very least get a new go-to threat.

And with that out of the way...

Take the mode or mean of Superman feats and I promise you that you'll get something like city block. Not even planetary. Good thing that's not how versus debating works. And who cares if something is heralded by a single person? You think comics are the only series with plotholes? And don't give me that argument when shit like the Looney Tunes characters are in the star level range for things that happen rarely when they've been around for just as long. Not to mention the fact that having more feats isn't a problem. I can promise you that Persona, Final Fantasy, and Mario have more feats in the wall level range than in the cosmic level range, but nobody will question that. And yes, teams of people work on video games, so that argument doesn't work either.

Finally ki Control argument falls flat when the villain in question wants everything destroyed.
Click to expand...
Okay, Cal. What statistics do you want pre crisis flash to receive?
 
First of all, it's not an insult. More like a comedic constructive criticism. And I don't do that to "People who disagree with me," it's only people who are being disrespectful, trolling, or deliberately ignorant. Second, most of those pseudo jokes were offsite and only recall saying that with one person before now.

Post-Crisis Superman's strongest attack was calculated at 4-B and all the "Tier 2 feats" are either non-canon, chain reactions, involves a character holding back against Post-Crisis Superman, or are simply unrealiable. We are not upgrading the Post-Crisis cast to anything beyond Tier 4 any time soon. And actually, Looney Toons has a lot of Tier 5 feats. JRPGs are false equivelency. Their Cosmic/Stellar feats are often End Game where as they have a lot of Tectonic/Nuclear feats mid game and early game before that. Mario actually has just as many Tier 4 feats as Superman does and multiple Tier 2 feats, but those Tier 2 feats are outliers.

Actually, the villains want to have some fun before they destroy everything and them wanting to "Destroy everything" is actually often a bluff. That's a horrible argument right there.
 
I actually do think that flash should be 2-C in base and 2-A in specral form, but the absolute majority disagrees with me, and I don't want to whin about it.
 
>Xcano.

The deliberately ignorant is the part that I have contention with.

>Superman's strongest feat.

Superman's strongest feat was shaking the timelines in a fight with an AU of himself. Not the 4-B feat which I calced. That wasn't even a top performance feat, him pushing a solar system. Unless you're talking about something else.

>All the tier 2 feats.

The only point you have there is that some of them may be AUs, and even then, the AUs will be a previous version of himself that he scales to, like Pre-Crisis or SBP. Idk what you're talking about with chain reactions.

>Not upgrading them above tier 4 anytime soon.

Don't be so sure about that. We both know there's a metric ton of franchises we said wouldn't be upgraded and go it, and this has more legitimacy than all of them.

>Looney Tunes

If you're going to legitimately tell me that tier 5 is consistent than I don't know what to tell you. Luckily I don't have a problem with it for the same reason I don't have a problem with tier 2 herald tiers.

>JRPGs

All of which are by your logic, horribly outnumbered by a ton of lower things and should be rendered null. For every instance of Sephy blowing up a sun in your face, there's Zach being riddled by bullets and people thinking Cloud died from a fall.

>Mario

Plans to be revised too. Those outliers will only be outliers for so long. Wait until the forum move.

>Villains.

No. Zamasu very much wasn't trying to have fun and very much wanted to purge the so called filthy mortals from the world. Supported by the fact that it's literally the first think Infinite Zamasu did. That argument only works for like, Future 17 and 18.
 
By the way, Firestorm did make a good effort to gather scans and is reasonable in the long run. But I still agree with Antvasima that the loopholes seem unreliable.
 
@Everyone, as I told him in PM, the the first part was a joke.

@Cal, I said strongest "Attack" not "Strongest feat". There's a difference, but DC is the 2nd main verse we have to be extra strict regarding outliers with Marvel being the first. And it's the 600 Kilofoe Infinite Mass Punch is what I'm talking about for Post-Crisis.

Phantom Zone is a chain reaction as it naturally shakes when Superman's in jeopardy and even Batman level characters have been shown to shake it on a regular basis. Or heck, even a Krytonite ring shook it just from getting close to Superman. He also is no where near the power of Superboy or Pre-Crisis Superman. There was also one instance he needed a power up he didn't normally have access to just to perform a 4-A feat.

Those other verses are completely off topic but even so.

Looney Toons has the 5-A Earth busting feat that's done in many episodes at least from what Weekly said on another thread.

Bullet analogy is PIS, and JRPG characters just grow stronger and stronger with every battle and have slain multiple Tier 6/5 summonable monsters. Sephiroth is the strongest boss in the game which Cloud was stronger than he's even been during that time, so 4-B is consistent. FFVII always has these "Limit Breaks" for all their crazy feats.

Not that I'm against the Mario upgrades, but I'd rather save Dino another headache. Plus, it's really inconsistent with the current powerscaling chain. If it's just the 7 star children getting a possible rating, sure there's like 5 feats for that. But Low 2-C minibosses seems whack.

He wanted to destroy all mortals, so that they had a beautiful planet to enjoy. It's not like they can enjoy a void with no planets or stars in it; that would be boring for Zamasu. Their goal was that they wanted to be looked at as the strongest beings in existence. Plus, the two of them merged into a Low 2-C character, so yeah.
 
I obviously strongly agree with Medeus. Superhero comicbooks have had several hundreds of writers over a period of 80 years that have constantly heavily contradicted each other, and Stan Lee himself even officially stated that said writers generally don't care at all about coherent power-scaling, just whoever their whims and prefered story conventions favoured to win a fight.

If we would begin to scale every character to every character without taking the actual established scale and consistency of their reliable feats into account, along with common sense regarding outliers, we would literally end up with 1-A everybody. That is completely unworkable and unreliable. I would greatly appreciate if you do not turn this into a problem. Thank you.
 
I also think that Firestorm808, FanofRPGs, and others have gone through and debunked most of the supposed higher level feats for Superman and other DC and Marvel characters.
 
And we still preferably shouldn't scale a character that only appeared once over 50 years ago to a fight with another character whose higher power level was established by other writers decades later in completely unrelated stories.
 
Antvasima said:
And we still preferably shouldn't scale a character that only appeared once over 50 years ago to a fight with another character whose higher power level was established by other writers decades later in completely unrelated stories.
Click to expand...
Antvasima, what character what appeared 50 years ago are you talking about?
 
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