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Flash (Barry Allen) (Pre-Crisis) Revision:

Seems like the party started without me.

Anyways I might be ok with a possibly 2-C Post-Crisis Flash (and people that scale to him) for GL surviving Crisis and then scaling to him but I also want a low-end below tier 4 for the characters that need it. That way we acknowledge the inconsistency of DC. Now we should wait till the forum move is over to discuss this though.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
@Spino, Tier 6 does seem too low for Pre-Crisis Flash, but unless we know any better concrete feats. Also, the 4-A feats in Post-Crisis are unreliable for stuff Matt mentions. Wonder Woman used power nulling artifacts to kill Ares' avatars, so she doesn't scale at all. And there's only one legit 4-A feat from Superman, but he needed a power up he didn't normally have access to; "Absorbing enough Anti-solar radiation to destroy half a galaxy" and isn't really a true AP or Durability feat in the general conscientious.
Click to expand...
I was actually referring to Marvel, should have made that clear. 4-B is pretty consistent for Post-Crisis Superman.
 
@Da Lunge Fish

It's not BFR.

  • The Flash Vol 1 #153 June 1965
    • Barry lands a mighty punch, knocking Eobard out. As this caused the vibrations which kept him in the 20th Century to cease, Zoom returned to his own era, where the authorities found him, unconscious.
 
@Greenshifter

Surviving the Crisis isn't as impressive as you may think, depending on the context. Many heroes were folded into the New Earth without issue. Unless the character is shown being unharmed by touching the Anti-Matter wave, it shouldn't really scale.
 
One of the reasons I made my feat timelines is to lay out the consistency of a statistic over time. If you take all the feats and assign numerical value for each, you can put them through standard deviation to get a proper representation.
 
Firestorm808 said:
@Da Lunge Fish
It's not BFR.

  • The Flash Vol 1 #153 June 1965
    • Barry lands a mighty punch, knocking Eobard out. As this caused the vibrations which kept him in the 20th Century to cease, Zoom returned to his own era, where the authorities found him, unconscious.
Click to expand...
Yeah, i can't argue with that.
 
Firestorm808 said:
@Greenshifter

Surviving the Crisis isn't as impressive as you may think, depending on the context. Many heroes were folded into the New Earth without issue.
Click to expand...
There's no way you can spin a multiversal reset in a way that makes it unimpressive, especially given this specific case, they explicitly state that the rings protect them. They being Kilowog, of course.
 
Regenerationn implies that he had to heal a body part from an injury, which he didn't.

  • The Flash Vol 1 #126 February 1962
    • Barry survives getting transmuted into a mirror, melts himself in an incredibly short time and turns back into cells.
To me, it seems more like Transmutation and some form of Biological Manipulation.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Regenerationn implies that he had to heal a body part from an injury, which he didn't.
  • The Flash Vol 1 #126 February 1962
    • Barry survives getting transmuted into a mirror, melts himself in an incredibly short time and turns back into cells.
To me, it seems more like Transmutation and some form of Biological Manipulation.
Click to expand...
If that's the case, Barry should have mid-low regen, as in Flash 190 he healed his leg even thought the doctor was sure he can never run again.
 
@The real cal howard

  • Green Lantern Corps Vol 1 #218 November 1987
    • A Pre-Crisis Kilowog only survives the explosion of his planet cause by the Anti-Matter energy as shown by him floating in the planet's rubble.
    • Kilowog's first appearance | Green Lantern Corps Vol 1 #201 June 1986
    • Harbinger linked Earths S, X, and 4 with the merging Earths 1 and 2. | COIE #6
    • When New Earth was created, many characters of differing power levels from other Earth's were folded into it with varying degrees of memories.
    • Crisis on Infinite Earths Vol 1 #11 February 1986
      • No one scales to multiversal by being folded into New Earth.
 
A multiversal reset a result of an antimatter god destroys a planet. Not surprising. Pretty expected. And that doesn't explain Ch'p either, who also mentioned explicit Power Ring resistance.

Yes. They remember with varying degrees. But that doesn't excuse the fact that again, Lanterns tanked it. There were no other reasonings there, as it's an explicit statement. The others got affected. Lanterns got shielded from it.
 
  • Majority of the Lanterns weren't affected by the Anti-Matter Wave because they were in the Anti-Matter Universe while the Anti-Monitor and everyone else was fighting at the Dawn of Time. Upon the climax, the multiverse became only two, the positive matter and the anti-matter universes. Earth's heroes and villains that were present at the battle at the dawn of time were revived and some were placed back into the timestream while some others were there without a past except to the others that were at the dawn of time. The Anti-Monitor was also sent back to the anti-matter universe, his origin.
  • Green Lantern Vol 2 #194 November 1985
    • The Anti-Monitor blasts a bunch of Guardians, killing them.
  • Green Lantern Corps Vol 1 #203 August 1986
    • Ub'x wasn't erased during the crisis. Holding against the Anti-Matter wave for an instant, his entire body was converted into pure energy. The other lanterns didn't face the same uncomprehendable force trying to wipe them out of existance.
    • "I've lost control of the power that kept me alive through the crisis! It seems I'm going to die after all!"
    • His new body was turning back into energy, and Chip reversed that.
  • Green Lantern Corps Vol 1 #214 July 1987
    • Ub'x say's that his sucker stick allowed him to survive the shift in reality.
 
Da Lunge Fish said:
Firestorm808 said:
Regenerationn implies that he had to heal a body part from an injury, which he didn't.
  • The Flash Vol 1 #126 February 1962
    • Barry survives getting transmuted into a mirror, melts himself in an incredibly short time and turns back into cells.
To me, it seems more like Transmutation and some form of Biological Manipulation.
Click to expand...
If that's the case, Barry should have mid-low regen, as in Flash 190 he healed his leg even thought the doctor was sure he can never run again.
Click to expand...
Can Barry have mid-low regen because of this?
 
Firestorm808 said:
@Greenshifter

Surviving the Crisis isn't as impressive as you may think, depending on the context. Many heroes were folded into the New Earth without issue. Unless the character is shown being unharmed by touching the Anti-Matter wave, it shouldn't really scale.
Click to expand...
Also, the power of anti-matter wave was spread out over infinite universes, which would work roughly the same way as withstanding an infinitely distant explosion.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Regenerationn implies that he had to heal a body part from an injury, which he didn't.
Click to expand...
Well, I usually agree with you, but this time the Flash really did reassemble his body from a melted and transformed state.
 
Anyway, I almost completely agree with Firestorm808, but as Da Lunge Fish said, we shouldn't derail.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Regenerationn implies that he had to heal a body part from an injury, which he didn't.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure your cells are disassembled when you melt, so I think that should count as Regenerationn.
 
@Firestorm808

Thank you for helping out. We seem to have reached an agreement then.

By the way, how are your DC and Marvel feat debunk blogs going along?
 
Okay. Thank you for helping out. It is very useful in order to avoid repeating the same arguments over and over.
 
A massive amount of DC and possibly Marvel feats, if I remember correctly.

That seem like a good idea.
 
I do not know. Destroying the machinery is not the same as overpowering the entire power of a multiverse-destroying wave.
 
It was probably too durable for that, but I do not remember so well.
 
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