Fist of the North Star General CRT

[Twellas]

For me to be able to give any thoughts, I would need:

1. The accepted multiplier.
2. The total multiplier that comes from stacking.
3. The base feat upon which the total multiplier is being used on.
4. And any evidence that can fulfill the burden of proof needed to accept the total multiplier.

1. Tenryu Kokyu Oh, it's a 3.3x
2. I guess about 9x? Ken goes from being stomped by a guy while at 100% to beating a guy 3 times stronger than that same guy while at 30%
3. A statement that would place them at Multi-Continental
4. i've already explained the whole thing like 4 times, check my post before Ogbunabali joined in

 

[AKM sama]

4. Are you proposing a higher tier or something like that above Multi-Continent level? Or just higher? How would the profiles get changed according to this? I read your post but it did not mention what exactly would need to change in the profiles in terms of statistics.

 

[Twellas]

I guess Ken and Kasumi would reach Moon level if we apply Tenryu on top of this 9x multiplier

 

[Twellas]

And it's not like Ken being this absurdly stronger than those before him is out of the blue, just look ath the Shura scaling, a nameless Shura scales relative to Falco, who scales somewhat to Raoh, Hyoh goes on to fight about 300 Elite Shuras, each of which can kill 1000 nameless Shuras at the same time, while half-dead. You do the math

 

[Silvervigilant]

I guess Ken and Kasumi would reach Moon level if we apply Tenryu on top of this 9x multiplier

will Ken and Kasumi be the only ones to reach Moon level ?

 

[Eseseso]

will Ken and Kasumi be the only ones to reach Moon level ?

Yes.

 

[Twellas]

well, depends on how Kasumi's story will unfold. As I said, there has been a pretty blatant Star Level statement for one of the guys he's about to fight, so they might end up even higher

 

[Twellas]

And I mean, if we understood the way the star level feats work, we might just ditch the calcs and go to Star Level, there are a ton of feats

 

[Twellas]

Just off the top of my head, we have Ryuga's star turning red when he goes on a rampage, Toki's star dying as a result of his death, same thing happening with the Goshasei, Kaioh manifesting a meteor going through the Big Dipper, then you have this guy in REGENESIS who's stated to be "able to annihilate the stars".
The only problem is understanding how these would correlate to AP and whether or not the fighter himself can be considered the source and not some external, unnamed entity

 

[Silvervigilant]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here so far?

 

[KLOL506]

1. Actually you may need to do some pixel-scaling on the distance between the cloud bottom to Raoh on the ground to check if the assumption is actually valid.

Nothing can be approved unless queries are cleared.

BTW, about this

Bottom cloud diameter is actually 218px (109px bottom cloud radius), while the top cloud diameter is 138px (Thus making top cloud radius 69px, no funny number jokes pls).

So I'm not sure how that'd affect your result.

 

[Eseseso]

Not to mention we need to look at this potential calc for the Goten Sho, and we still haven't chosen which of the 2 Soryu Tenra feats to use.

Edit: Btw I just calced the given Low End and High End of the Goten Sho calc in the link above but with speeds of 1/34.3 seconds and 1/220 seconds, and these are the results:

Low-End size, 1/34.3 seconds: About 178 gigatons (Large Island Level) for just the hole, 1.314 teratons (Small Country Level) including the split

Low-End size, 1/220 seconds: About 7.27 teratons (Just above baseline Country Level) for just the hole, 56.37 teratons (Country Level+) including the split

High-End size, 1/34.3 seconds: About 533.88 teratons (Large Country Level+) for just the hole, 3.941 petatons (Continent Level+) including the split (although if this were accepted then 30% Raoh would probably just upscale to baseline Multi-Continent Level since the gap is so small and 30% Raoh >>>> the near-dead Raoh who did the Goten Sho)

High-End size, 1/220 seconds: About 21.96357 petatons (Multi-Continent Level) for just the hole, 161.14565 petatons (Still Multi-Continent Level) including the split

 

[KLOL506]

Not to mention we need to look at this potential calc for the Goten Sho, and we still haven't chosen which of the 2 Soryu Tenra feats to use.

That's... exactly what Jasonsith calc'd, with various ends ranging from 7-B to High 6-B IIRC

but his pixel-scaling for the cloud top is a bit off, hence, my comment regarding it.

 

[Eseseso]

That's... exactly what Jasonsith calc'd, with various ends ranging from 7-B to High 6-B IIRC

but his pixel-scaling for the cloud top is a bit off, hence, my comment regarding it.

I'd say more like 7-A to High 6-A, but close enough.

 

[KLOL506]

I'd say more like 7-A to High 6-A, but close enough.

Ah yes, the split.

 

[Eseseso]

Ah yes, the split.

Oh yeah, that actually reminds me, the calc on deviantart never takes the split into account.

That would make the calc's total value range from Small Country Level (Low-End, 1/34.3 seconds) to as high as 161 petatons (still Multi Continent Level)

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here so far?

 

[Eseseso]

Excellent question.

Until more people agree on multiplier stacking, the only real thing we've agreed on is the 849.677 petaton feat, plus Kaioh casually moving the clouds (the latter of which I've already put on Kaioh's page).

If it's ok, I can add the 849.677 petaton feat and change people who scale to it to "At Least High 6-A", since no matter what the decision on the multipliers is, that feat is agreed upon and most people who scale to it are just High 6-A anyways.

This includes:

Kenshiro
Kaioh
Hyoh
Shachi
Probably Raoh (since 30% Raoh = 30% Pre-Seals Ken = 849.677 petatons)
Probably Fudou
Han
Probably Souther
Probably Toki
Probably Ryuken
Kasumi (and whoever scales to him)
Probably Rei
Probably Shin
Probably Yuda (as much as I hate this guy he did badly hurt a serious Rei)
Probably Ryuga


This does NOT include:

Jagi (since Kenshiro stomped him, he should only scale to the nuke feat)
Amiba (he only hurt a badly hurt and demoralized Kenshiro and was stomped by a serious Ken, so IMO he should only scale to Jagi)

 

[Antvasima]

So which characters will be High 6-A, and which will be "At least High 6-A", and why?

Also, which staff members have helped out here previously?

 

[Eseseso]

So which characters will be High 6-A, and which will be "At least High 6-A", and why?

Also, which staff members have helped out here previously?

The only ones who will be "At Least High 6-A" will probably be Kenshiro and Kasumi, with their Post-Seals 100% forms maybe being 5-C depending on how that debate ends.

Kaioh won't be "at least" since @Twellas has stated why he doesn't scale to 100% Post-Seal Ken.

IMO, all the current FOTNS pages on the wiki EXCEPT for Jagi and Amiba will be High 6-A.

Jagi because Ken stomped him, so IMO he should only scale to the nuke feat.
Amiba because he only hurt a badly injured and demoralized Ken and got stomped by a serious Ken, so he should only be comparable to Jagi.

 

[Twellas]

Excellent question.

Until more people agree on multiplier stacking, the only real thing we've agreed on is the 849.677 petaton feat, plus Kaioh casually moving the clouds (the latter of which I've already put on Kaioh's page).

If it's ok, I can add the 849.677 petaton feat and change people who scale to it to "At Least High 6-A", since no matter what the decision on the multipliers is, that feat is agreed upon and most people who scale to it are just High 6-A anyways.

This includes:

Kenshiro
Kaioh
Hyoh
Shachi
Probably Raoh (since 30% Raoh = 30% Pre-Seals Ken = 849.677 petatons)
Probably Fudou
Han
Probably Souther
Probably Toki
Probably Ryuken
Kasumi (and whoever scales to him)
Probably Rei
Probably Shin
Probably Yuda (as much as I hate this guy he did badly hurt a serious Rei)
Probably Ryuga


This does NOT include:

Jagi (since Kenshiro stomped him, he should only scale to the nuke feat)
Amiba (he only hurt a badly hurt and demoralized Kenshiro and was stomped by a serious Ken, so IMO he should only scale to Jagi)

Fudou, Souther, Toki, Ryuken, Rei, Shin, Yuda and Ryuga don't scale to the High 6-A statement, they don't scale anywhere near the level of 30% post-Musou Tensei Ken, they should upscale from Jagi's feat or scale to Souther's and Raoh's.
Falco should scale to it

 

[Eseseso]

Fudou, Souther, Toki, Ryuken, Rei, Shin, Yuda and Ryuga don't scale to the High 6-A statement, they don't scale anywhere near the level of 30% post-Musou Tensei Ken, they should upscale from Jagi's feat or scale to Souther's and Raoh's.
Falco should scale to it

Ok, then, but if that's the case shouldn't we consider making a separate key for pre- and post-Musou Tensei Ken?

And btw, we never did get a calc for Souther's feat.

 

[Eseseso]

Also @Twellas, what do you think of the values I listed for the low-ends and high-ends for the Goten Sho calc I linked to (but with speed values of either 1/34.3 or 1/220 seconds)?

The calc didn't take the split into account, but luckily I was able to find all 4 of the potential split+hole values thanks to the stuff on Jasonsith's page making it much easier.

 

[Twellas]

Ok, then, but if that's the case shouldn't we consider making a separate key for pre- and post-Musou Tensei Ken?

I mean, kinda. post MT 30% Ken literally no-sold 100% Raoh, who scales significantly above pretty much everyone else in the verse at that point

 

[Eseseso]

I mean, kinda. post MT 30% Ken literally no-sold 100% Raoh, who scales significantly above pretty much everyone else in the verse at that point

That makes a lot of sense, and makes scaling blissfully easier.

I'm not sure who should scale to just Raoh's feat, though (or if anyone should upscale to it). Especially since depending on which value is accepted and whether near-dead Raoh scales to pre-Musou Tensei Raoh, it could end up with even the people who just scale to that calc having power levels in the petatons themselves.

Of course, that'd arguably be more useful than anything, since a value for the Goten Sho in the single digit or double-digit petatons would actually help prevent claims that the 849.677 petaton statement is an outlier.

 

[Silvervigilant]

What about their speed, they're gonna be FTL ?

also there's some abilities that needs to be added in some profiles

 

[Twellas]

What about their speed, they're gonna be FTL ?

also there's some abilities that needs to be added in some profiles

pretty much everyone scales either to or above Garuda, so yeah

 

[Antvasima]

So have you reached an agreement here?

 

[Eseseso]

So have you reached an agreement here?

I think(?) we've agreed that FoTNS is FTL for the mentioned reasons, but as for Moon Level 100% Post-Seals Ken and Kasumi, I don't know if any other mod has given an opinion on the 3.33x repeated scaling.

Since this is taking forever, would it be alright if I at least made Kenshiro (at least High 6-A)

 

[Silvervigilant]

Since this is taking forever, would it be alright if I at least made Kenshiro (at least High 6-A)

That would be nice

 

[Antvasima]

"At least High 6-A" for Kenshiro seems fine to me, but you need to figure out how to scale all of the other affected FotNS characters as well.

 

[Twellas]

we cannot possibly do that without having a full revision of Raoh's, Jagi's and Souther's feats

 

[Twellas]

btw, I'll add further justification to Ken's profile when it comes to the High 6-A rating

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

What do you suggest for other characters?

 

[Twellas]

We need to have definitive calculations for Jagi's, Raoh's and Souther's feats to be able to rate them properly, almost none of them scale to the High 6-A feat

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Understood.

Can you find and link to visual evidence for their feats please?

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

I’d like to say real quick, because Amiba’s profile is outdated (given how he’s still High 6-C according to the profile) and his profile is locked, it should be changed from High 6-C to Low 6-B, he is comparable to Jagi, and a full powered Ken stomped Amiba.

 

[Silvervigilant]

we cannot possibly do that without having a full revision of Raoh's, Jagi's and Souther's feats

Well about Raoh's feat, i think that the 2000 meters variant calc that was done by @KLOL506 is pretty solid. I also don't see any problems with his Jagi calc. But yes someone should calc the Souther feat.

 

[Eseseso]

Well about Raoh's feat, i think that the 2000 meters variant calc that was done by @KLOL506 is pretty solid. I also don't see any problems with his Jagi calc. But yes someone should calc the Souther feat.

For the Raoh feat:

1. We still haven't looked at the Deviantart calc that I already linked to, which going by the timeframes given by @Jasonsith could range from Large Island to Multi-Continent.

2. @Jasonsith's versions of the calc shouldn't be overlooked, if anything they're at the very least as solid as KLOL's calc, if not more so.